Re: PBMs [was Re: Map Generator....]

From: Terry Austin <taustin@hyperbooks.com>

Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000

graham@DELETETHISaffordable-leather.co.uk wrote:

>Hi There,
>
>On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:44:39 -0800, "Terry Austin"
><taustin@hyperbooks.com> wrote:
>
>>There's certainly plenty of fools out there. They'll
>>be fools no matter how theives act towards them,
>>and are thus unworthy of anything but contempt.
>
>If someone is stupid enough to treat their customers with nothing but
>contempt, they'll suddenly find that someone else treats them with a
>bit of respect and they'll have no customers left.

Yep. The trick is in figuring out what the customers consider being treated
with contempt.
>
>>> Windows is, frankly, a lousy system, but it has been agressively
>>> marketed which is why it is on the majority of computers.
>>
>>No, it is on the majority of computers because
>>it also is good enough for most needs,
>
>It wouldn't have got there, however, without the marketing.

Demonstrably untrue for the last several years.  To wit: The anti-trust
ruling. It gets there now because the illegal use of monopoly power is
cheaper than marketing.
>
>>> However, to drag this back to the subject of PBM, have you ever played
>>> "It's a Crime" from KJC? it wasn't the greatest game yet it still managed
>>> to be one of the most widely played and successful PBM.
>
>(no reply)
>
>Oh well, so much for trying to get this back on topic.

If you don't know better, you're far too stupid to figure it out.
>
>>> The saying "if you build a better mousetrap the world will beat a path
>>> to your door" is complete crap. It doesn't matter whether your
>>> mousetrap is better or not, if you market it well it *will* sell.
>>
>>Maybe for a while. If it's shit, it'll fail eventually, and so
>>will your company.
>
>Yes, if it isn't *any* good. But that wasn't the point I was making.
>It doesn't have to be the best if you market it well.

In the sense of making what the market wants, and making sure the market
knows where to get it.  It doesn't have to be the best of the market doesn't
*want* the best.

After all, not everyone buys a Rolls Royce.
>
>>> More people have lost their shorts thinking that just because they had
>>> a great product people will automatically buy it.
>>
>>Bullshit. For that to even be possible, there
>>would have to be more people who *had*
>>a great product, which is utter rubbish.
>
>On what do you base this?

Sturgeon had it right, except perhaps in underestimating how much of
everything is shit.

>There are plenty of products which, even
>though they have been excellent at what they do, have failed in the
>market place due to inadequate or incompetent  marketing.

There have been far more that have failed because they weren't what the
market wanted at all.
>
>>> >Marketing is irrelevant when you have a monopoly.
>>>
>>> Not when there are up and coming competitors and you want to *keep*
>>> that monopoly.
>>>
>>Marketing is irrelevant then, too. Illegal strongarm
>>tactics are far more important.
>
>"Illegal"? That sounds so much like a small child stamping its foot
>and shouting "it's not fair!"

You *have* hear of the anti-trust ruling, haven't you?  We *were* talking
about Microsoft, you know, even though you've snipped that out.  I'm merely
quoting a federal judge's ruling on the matter. There's quite a bit in that
ruling about how MS doesn't market, they abuse their monopoly power.
>
>See below for a definition of marketing.

That should be amusing.
>
>>Go read the Micorsoft ruling sometime.
>
>Which one? The one that they've recently entirely circumvented by
>saying "ok, if you don't like us bundling our software, we won't do it
>at all" because they know that they've now got enough of a hammerlock
>that retailers can't afford *not* to put in Windoze with a new PC?

The one saying they are an illegal monopoly, and that is currently the basis
of serious discussion of breaking MS into at least two, and probably three
companies.

Remember that one?  Moron.
>
>>Marketing does not enter the picture in any way.
>
>I have to wonder if you *really* comprehend what "Marketing" is.
>
>Marketing is getting your product into the marketplace, nothing more,
>nothing less.

That's not the definition Henry's using, which seems to involve sacrificing
virgins.

>Whether that's persuading/ encouraging/ forcing/
>whatever retailers to bundle your software in with new computers or
>advertising it such that people *want* retailers to bundle it because
>they think they can't do without it, it's *still* marketing.
>
By your definition, MS isn't marketing any more. They're not *getting* their
product into the market. They've already *got* it there, with as close to
100% penetration as they can ever expect to get.

Read the anti-trust ruling. It's quite enlightening as to why MS is *not*
marketing any more.

Or not.

You're pretty stupid, and you seem to like it that way.

--
Terry Austin <taustin@hyperbooks.com> http://www.hyperbooks.com
"Terry's an artist and a master chemist; he can set fire to water."
--Sea Wasp, rec.arts.sf.written

References

Re: Map Generator....
htp@mac.com (Henry)
Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000
Re: Map Generator....
Carol Mulholland <Carol@flagship-uk.demon.co.uk>
Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000
Re: Map Generator....
gherbert@crl3.crl.com (George Herbert)
Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000
Re: Map Generator....
"Terry Austin" <taustin@hyperbooks.com>
Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000
Re: Map Generator....
Ilya <ilya@spam.free.gamecommandos.com>
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000
Re: Map Generator....
htp@mac.com (Henry)
Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000
Re: Map Generator....
Ed Chauvin IV <edc81u4@newsguy.com>
Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000
PBMs [was Re: Map Generator....]
graham@DELETETHISaffordable-leather.co.uk
Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000
Re: PBMs [was Re: Map Generator....]
"Terry Austin" <taustin@hyperbooks.com>
Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000
Re: PBMs [was Re: Map Generator....]
graham@DELETETHISaffordable-leather.co.uk
Tue, 25 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000

Referenced By

Re: Map Generator....
htp@mac.com (Henry)
Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000
Re: Map Generator....
Carol Mulholland <Carol@flagship-uk.demon.co.uk>
Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000
Re: Map Generator....
gherbert@crl3.crl.com (George Herbert)
Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000
Re: Map Generator....
"Terry Austin" <taustin@hyperbooks.com>
Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000
Re: Map Generator....
Ilya <ilya@spam.free.gamecommandos.com>
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000
Re: Map Generator....
htp@mac.com (Henry)
Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000
Re: Map Generator....
Ed Chauvin IV <edc81u4@newsguy.com>
Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000
PBMs [was Re: Map Generator....]
graham@DELETETHISaffordable-leather.co.uk
Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000
Re: PBMs [was Re: Map Generator....]
"Terry Austin" <taustin@hyperbooks.com>
Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000
Re: PBMs [was Re: Map Generator....]
graham@DELETETHISaffordable-leather.co.uk
Tue, 25 Jan 2000 00:00:00 +0000