Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start

From: gym@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Graham Matthews)

Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1993 11:55:13 +0000

gym@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Graham Matthews) writes:
> >rwallace@cs.tcd.ie (Russell Wallace) writes:
> >> If "Joe Average" is so staggeringly stupid he can't understand the
> >> concepts of percentage or ratio (which concepts suffice to understand
> >> most formulas in most games), he shouldn't be playing at all.  What are
> >> you going to argue next, that a printed rulebook should not be provided
> >> because it puts at a disadvantage people who can't read???
> >
> >You live in a rarified world Russell. Most people do not have the mathematical
> >skills you allude to - sorry but its true! Ever played serious games with
> >people who are language or philosophy students. One game with such people
> >will convince you that what I am saying is true!
saschreu@cs.vu.nl (Schreuder SA) writes:
> But what is the point in playing against people who aren't able to do
> simple calculations? You are saying they aren't even able to calculate
> distances using Pythagoras, because then they need to subtract, square,
> add and taking a square root!
>
> You are almost talking about somebody who doesn't want to use the rules,
> or to devote some time to study them.
>
> >Moreover most decent formulas are not nice simple percentages or ratios.
> >Take the formulas for population growth, something that many econonmy
> >simulations would have, surely!
>
> The formulas I've seen are only: adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing.
> Maybe a square root, or a log/exp. But any calculator has those functions,
> so anyone who can use a calculator, is able to use those formulas.
>
> And besides, the rulebook example is not an extreme example. You want us
> no to have the rules, because some players _can't_ use them.

Yawn as I have said time and time again I have no problems with people knowing
the rules - its the formula knowledge I don't want public.

saschreu@cs.vu.nl (Schreuder SA) writes:
> What is
> the difference with not publishing the rules, because some players can't
> read them? Ever thought about foreign players? English isn't my prime
> language, but I have to use it. I'm sure there are many people in europe
> who aren't able to read this group, because they don't understand english.
> But you certainly won't tell us to stop reading news, because they can't
> either, will you?
>
> So I'll post a new article, stating that we should not use english,
> because some people can't read it. :-) I'll be flamed a lot!

More extremeties.
Many more people can read than can do maths is the simple answer to your
entire article.

gym@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Graham Matthews) writes:
> >Then how come it is that I have played a number of computer tennis games
> >and felt that they have given a good representation of a game of tennis?
> >Most notable in this respect are the Atari tennis games.
saschreu@cs.vu.nl (Schreuder SA) writes:
> And here you skip the difference between PBM games and real time games.
> In any PBM with graphics, I would be able to measure the distance
> between the ball and some reference points (148 pixels to the line),
> and it is possible to find out those formulas again.

No here you miss completely the difference between real time and game time!

saschreu@cs.vu.nl (Schreuder SA) writes:
> This is Rec.games.pbm, so stop talking about real time games. In PBMs,
> one is able to think, in stead of have good reflexes. We were talking
> about a PBM tennis game, and not about "normal" games. If you were, please
> post your next article in the right newsgroup.

Two points in reply :-

a) I am not talking about real time games - I am talking about the difference
between real time and game time.

b) THIS IS NOT REC.GAMES.PBM! I don't even read rec.games.pbm. This discussion
if cross-posted to rec.games.design (read the damn newsgroup lines before you
complain next time!).

graham

References

Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start
rwallace@cs.tcd.ie (Russell Wallace)
Sat, 03 Jul 1993 11:32:44 +0000
Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start
gym@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Graham Matthews)
Sat, 03 Jul 1993 17:11:09 +0000
Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start
saschreu@cs.vu.nl (Schreuder SA)
Mon, 05 Jul 1993 11:59:00 +0000

Referenced By

Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start
rwallace@cs.tcd.ie (Russell Wallace)
Sat, 03 Jul 1993 11:32:44 +0000
Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start
gym@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Graham Matthews)
Sat, 03 Jul 1993 17:11:09 +0000
Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start
saschreu@cs.vu.nl (Schreuder SA)
Mon, 05 Jul 1993 11:59:00 +0000