Re: Vampire

From: johnlee@hinterland.fesnet.co.uk (John Lee)

Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 00:00:00 +0000

On 14 Dec 1999 11:11:50 GMT, madcentral@aol.com (MadCentral) wrote:

>>>[DE-LURK]<<
>
>Hi John.  While I respect your right to ''lurk'' and then ''jump in'', you
>might want to read the whole thread first?

I have. What's your point? I was posting my impressions I had from
both the entire thread AND specific messages. Here's an example of
exasperation from you Steve. I don't agree with you so you decide I've
not got a handle on what you, other or even myself are saying.
>
>>>Yeh, but surely shouting people down for being in some way
>non-conformist to your view of how people 'act' is just a way of
>demonising people who don't agree with you?>
>
>True.  So?  We aren't talking about shouting people down for not conforming to
>your view.  We are talking about shouting people down for directly insulting
>somebody in a rude and unneccessary manner.

I'm not talking about your views. Everyone would agree with at least
something you say - but launching into people because they've told you
to 'f-off' seems rather to justify their anger. You seem to always try
and put across a professional attitude to your games and your business
couched in some kind of extremist ideal of what every PBM player
should be - Maybe its my psychology grounding but seems to put across
a lot of insecurity in yourself.

>I ''shouted'' Roy Pollard down because he was needly rude to Ken Mulholland in
>a way that I thought was unnacceptable.  While Ken is entirely capable of
>looking after myself, I was peeved enough by the brainless comment to comment
>myself.  I didn't do this because I didn't agree with the comment (although I
>didn't) I did it because the comment was rude and cowardly.

And if I expressed an opinion that X was a complete wanker would you
jump to their defence just as quickly? Or would you decide whether you
like me or not and then base your response on this? I think perhaps we
take ourselves and our activities a little too serioiusly at times.
Kens a big boy (I was going to say old but I'm intending going to the
London Con) - He almost certainly knows when to tut and kill-file.
>
>>>Yep, I agree Roys got a big mouth. But I've got used to him as a
>player and I'd sooner hear him call me names (either simply to insult
>or through expressing what he thinks) <<
>
>Good for you.

Thanks. But I also think he's about the best GM I've played a game
with. I can tolerate his outbursts quite easily when I see how he
contributes to my and other peoples spare time. Tolerance I call it. I
can also understand when someone lays an insult on someone - It can
often be down to frustration, the need for a response to match their
own anger. Some of us can see the REAL sources of an insult.

> Personally, when somebody begins to insult me personally for no
>reason other than that they think they can, I like them to be somewhere which
>allows me to demonstrate that I wont tolerate this kind of rudeness.  But thats
>just me, I guess.
>
>>>Every insult will have to be classed as cowardly on usenet.<<
>
>Yes.  i think so.  A direct ''insult'' on usenet is indeed cowardly.
>
>>> They're
>made remote from  those who they're intended-for.<<
>
>Again.  Yes, I think so, although I am aware you are being ironic.
>
>>> Again, I'd sooner
>see insults than threats - and if I recall correctly I've seen you
>being openly insulting - even cowardly? - to Greg Lindahl. Is this somehow
>different?<<
>
>But responding to an insult directed at me, usually.  And more often I just try
>to be deeply sarcastic.
>
That's just it. If what you said were correct then I'd agree with you
wholeheartedly. Gregs someone who is short with people and at times
makes people angry - But surely that's a human trait, not something to
forma na opinion on. But who here hasn't made one opinion and stuck
with it whatever else might affect their way of seeing things?
This NG is ridiculously cliquey, territorial and childish.
 And the people who so righteously go about their PBM lives are the
worst - Everyone here plays the games we love - but in everyones eyes
there are heroes and villains - Its downright hysterical in here! And
I'm not talking funny.

>>>Let's not get hypocritical and hyper-sensitive boys and girls.<<
>
>Nobody is ''hyper sensitive''. He didn't say
>Ken was a 'jolly silly fellow' or 'foolish'.  I responded to needless rudeness,
>and Id do it again.

No he said that he was a 'boring silly prat' - That bounces off even
MY very thin armour, Steve. Hyper Sensitive is the Word
>
>>> This NG
>is thick with flames and shallow with anything resembling talk about
>what the hobbies about.<<
>
>Not always.
>
Always Steve - One thing I do agree with other people about is the
number of little digs and comments. If this were a different NG it
would be just as empty - not because of the content or the daily posts
that are on-topic - but because people see one flame after the next
after the next. This is based on a complete lack of tolerance on both
sides.

>>> but I play games with GMs a-plenty - and not one of
>them could be classed as a 'normal human being' <<
>
>Huh?
>
OK Steve, with exception perhaps of you. :-)

>>>People say nasty things and act nasty. Get over it!<<
>
>No. Im sorry.  That defeatist attitude towards such comments is not one I'll
>ever accept.

Its not defeatist. If someone fucks me off I'll quite happily give
them the finger and tell them to kiss my ring. Being anti-defeatist
and flying off the handle over someone wide-mouthing are two seperate
things.

Look, I'm not in anyones Fan Club, and I especially don't really worry
about the state of rec.games.pbm - But as someone who's always
looked-in and formed my own opinions without expressing them, it looks
like a lot of people in here are up for a little character
assassination.

Anyway. That's me done. I'm gonna add my dimes-worth to another
thread.
John Lee
"The devils in the Dreaming
He tells you I'm not sleeping in my hotel room alone
With nothing to believe in
You dive into the traffic rising up
And its so quiet
You're surprised
And then you wake."

References

Re: Vampire
johnlee@hinterland.fesnet.co.uk (John Lee)
Mon, 13 Dec 1999 00:00:00 +0000
Re: Vampire
madcentral@aol.com (MadCentral)
Tue, 14 Dec 1999 00:00:00 +0000