Re: Gender in language

From: Carol Mulholland <carol@flagship-pbm.co.uk>

Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:18:42 +0000

David desJardins wrote:

> We are a species with multiple different hair colors; why don't we have
> names and pronouns for people that incorporate their hair color?  There
> are any number of ways people could be divided into classes.

Um, there are names that distinguish people's hair colour (a blonde,
a brunette, Ginger etc) and their age (lad, lass, maid etc) and their age
(baby, toddler, crone etc). Language tends to be specific, but it's
important to maintain the general terms that we have as well.

> This much seems evident: sex-specific terms and pronouns developed as
> part of human language during a time when human society discriminated
> strongly against women.  At the time, such language certainly
> facilitated that discrimination: it's easier to make rules about what
> women can do and what men can do if your language easily distinguishes
> between them.

I'm not sure that this argument really holds up, though I've seen it
advanced before. I'd argue that it's Nature that discriminated against
women, by menstruation and the absence of reliable birth control. I don't
think that English easily distinguishes between the sexes: in English a
teacher, a doctor, a professor, a clerk etc can be of either sex. I think
that male/female pronouns helpful rather than discriminatory.

> Now, one can posit that in today's society discrimination
> is entirely a thing of the past, and that these language constructs are
> now a harmless artifact, since no one would discriminate any more.  This
> is, as far as I can tell, the argument that some are making: the terms
> do no harm, we are all used to them, so why not keep them?

One distinction that English has always made is between singular and
plural. I hate to see a singular noun followed by a plural pronoun because
the writer is afraid to use "he", it goes against the grain of our
language.

> If people hold that position, I think they are entitled to their
> opinion.  I just have a different opinion, I think my opinion is equally
> well justified and I wish that some people could accept it as a
> difference of opinion without feeling the need to drown it out with
> condescending insults and attacks.

I'm sorry if I've seemed to attack you. I do think that you exaggerate the
existence of sex discrimination in our shared culture. Historically, men
have had just as tough a time as women.

Carol

References

Re: Gender in language
David desJardins <desj@math.berkeley.edu>
Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:22:49 +0000
Re: Gender in language
David desJardins <desj@math.berkeley.edu>
Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:41:55 +0000
Re: Gender in language
madcentral@aol.com (MadCentral)
Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:48:57 +0000
Re: Gender in language
AC <spam@nospam.com.invalid>
Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:36:24 +0000
Re: Gender in language
AC <spam@nospam.com.invalid>
Tue, 12 Nov 2002 01:43:18 +0000
Re: Gender in language
AC <spam@nospam.com.invalid>
Tue, 12 Nov 2002 02:16:22 +0000
Re: Gender in language
David desJardins <desj@math.berkeley.edu>
Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:07:58 +0000
Re: Gender in language
AC <spam@nospam.com.invalid>
Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:37:13 +0000
Re: Gender in language
David desJardins <desj@math.berkeley.edu>
Tue, 12 Nov 2002 01:53:44 +0000
Re: Gender in language
David desJardins <desj@math.berkeley.edu>
Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:10:15 +0000
Re: Gender in language
AC <spam@nospam.com.invalid>
Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:03:30 +0000
Re: Gender in language
David desJardins <desj@math.berkeley.edu>
Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:17:50 +0000
Re: Gender in language
David desJardins <desj@math.berkeley.edu>
Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:07:46 +0000

Referenced By

Re: Gender in language
David desJardins <desj@math.berkeley.edu>
Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:22:49 +0000
Re: Gender in language
David desJardins <desj@math.berkeley.edu>
Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:41:55 +0000
Re: Gender in language
madcentral@aol.com (MadCentral)
Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:48:57 +0000
Re: Gender in language
AC <spam@nospam.com.invalid>
Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:36:24 +0000
Re: Gender in language
AC <spam@nospam.com.invalid>
Tue, 12 Nov 2002 01:43:18 +0000
Re: Gender in language
AC <spam@nospam.com.invalid>
Tue, 12 Nov 2002 02:16:22 +0000
Re: Gender in language
David desJardins <desj@math.berkeley.edu>
Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:07:58 +0000
Re: Gender in language
AC <spam@nospam.com.invalid>
Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:37:13 +0000
Re: Gender in language
David desJardins <desj@math.berkeley.edu>
Tue, 12 Nov 2002 01:53:44 +0000
Re: Gender in language
David desJardins <desj@math.berkeley.edu>
Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:10:15 +0000
Re: Gender in language
AC <spam@nospam.com.invalid>
Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:03:30 +0000
Re: Gender in language
David desJardins <desj@math.berkeley.edu>
Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:17:50 +0000
Re: Gender in language
David desJardins <desj@math.berkeley.edu>
Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:07:46 +0000