Re: PBM Games

From: seattle@hydra.unm.edu (David G. Adams)

Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1989 22:17:47 +0000

In article <15909@duke.cs.duke.edu> cfg@grad10.UUCP (Christopher F. Gandy) writes:
>In article <89300.130239O73@PSUVM.BITNET> O73@PSUVM.BITNET writes:
>>    If that still doesn't clear it up for you, you might want to remember that
>>USmail requires PAPER, and other things that must be paid for like photocopies
>>and even stamps.  There you have charges that don't even begin to consider the
>>amount of time someone is devoting to keep the game running smoothly.
>>
>  I was staying out of this one for a while, but now that I have some
>time, this has hit me as a good point to jump in. I *DO* know that a
>PBM takes paper, stamps, envelopes, etc, but tell me how one move from
>a PBM company uses anywhere near the $3.50-$5.00 that is charged for a
>move? What, you say paying for the time of the GM/move-handler. Ok,
>how many moves do you figure a handler can go through in a hour? 12?
>More? ok, that still looks like inordinate profit to me.
*>Especially when you figure that for the cost of 2 moves I could
*> buy/own/play repeatedly a pocket-type game. For the cost of 4-6 moves
*> (which will take a month or more to get returned - total) I could buy
*> a full-sized >game to own and have played many times during that month.
	Ah, but you wouldn't be playing the PBM, would you?
	Which do you want?
>  I have belonged to several PBM games (Earthwood, Tribes of Crane,
>etc), but all of them sucked up too much of my money too fast, for too
>little entertainment/turnaround.
	If the PBM you play in does not provide the entertainment you
	desire GET THE HELL OUT OF IT!!!  Why would anyone be stupid
	enough to pay to play something they don't enjoy if they have
	something better to do with their spending cash?
	Play if you think it's worth it, right?
> I would be interested in hearing what most people pay for a turn,
> and what they think the cost of the turn should actually be
> (realizing that the company must make SOME profit).

Ok, first off, let me tell you that I am a GM for a PBM called Lords of
The Earth, by Wanderer Games (I guess you could call me an employee of
the company, but it's not like any REAL corporation - I just send 15% of
my profits to the Game Designer, Thomas Harlan VII).

I run 2 of the company's 11 (+ varients) Lords campaigns.
Mine is the most expensive, charging $3.50 per turn.
Prices range from $1 - $3.00 for the other campaigns.

Why so much you ask?  Well let's break this down.  Oh, and note, my game
has a 6 week turnaround (3 weeks with me, 3 weeks with the players, per turn).
The average player position takes me about 15-30 minutes to figure the results
on WITHOUT orders from the player.  Add about 15-30 minutes to that depending
upon how complex the orders are.

Each player gets a 10-18 page newsletter each turn, along with a photocopied
stat-sheet, an order form, and any inter-player notes that need to be sent.
This ussually fits well in a standard letter envelope with a 45 cent stamp.

So, if you total it up so far it costs me:
Newsfax:  14 * $.07 		(an average copy cost + tax)
                   = $1.00
Stat sheet:        =   .07
Order form:	   =   .14	(it's double sided)
Stamp:	 	   =   .45
Envelope:	   =   .05
(Ribbons, electricity, initial costs of my hard/soft ware, etc. not included...)
Total costs:       = $1.71
Total profit: ($3.50 - $1.71 - 15%($3.50 - $1.71))
	 	   = $1.52/player/turn

Since it takes me about an average of 30 minutes to figure results on one
country, I make a little less than $3.05/hr.  Oooh, looks REAL inviting to
be a glamorous Game Master, eh?

Those are the ONLY running costs for MY PBM.  I know others, like IAC which
charges double to do more things (my game lets you do AS MUCH as you want
to with incredibly complex moves if you want - at the same price).

Initial costs for My PBM are $7.00 for rulebook, $2.00 for maps, of which
I make a profit of $1.15 total (including mailing costs and copy charges).
I ussually charge new players a $16.00 set up (which is rulebook, maps and
three turns).

One other thing you mentioned.  For the cost of this game ($3.50/turn) you
can purchase a boardgame (or similar game at hobby store) in about 5-10 turns.
TRUE! BUT, you wouldn't be playing the PBM, would you?  I know MANY players who
REALLY enjoy the fact that the game has a slow, controlled pace, so that they
have time to think about their moves, contact the other players around them,
get on with the REST of their lives (It takes me only about 15 minutes to
write out a set of orders any one of the three other Lords Campaigns I play in).

Play By Mail is a wonderful thing.  Play By Electronic Mail is a totally
different animal in most cases.  I would not want my game played via e-mail
because it takes all the fun out of it for me.  I mean, where do I get
to put those caligraphied letters that people send via inter-player mail?
How do I send those hand-drawn maps?  What about people that DON'T have
Inter-net access?  (90% of my players don't - another 5% don't even have phones)
What about that nifty new word processor I just bought that prints double
collumns and cool fonts which I hope to be Laser-printing soon?

Well, that's my 2 cents (as it were).

What do YOU think?

Dave

Note:  this was not an advertisement for my game.  But if you want to
know more, I am one of the many people who you would contact about it...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| seattle@hydra.unm.edu   |     Kirk - Mr. Spock, Eliminate his heartbeat.     |
| Dadams10@GEnie   LotE   | "Modern love is automatic"  - A Flock of Seagulls  |
| Seattle        Live it! | Don't bug the University  'bout nuthin' I've said. |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

References

Re: PBM Games
pa1005@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Richard Penner)
Thu, 26 Oct 1989 23:57:07 +0000
Re: PBM Games
O73@PSUVM.BITNET
Fri, 27 Oct 1989 17:02:39 +0000
Re: PBM Games
cfg@grad10.cs.duke.edu (Christopher F. Gandy)
Sat, 28 Oct 1989 16:29:56 +0000
PBM Games
fb0h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Fred Ahban Bradbury)
Thu, 26 Oct 1989 19:14:15 +0000
Re: PBM Games
seattle@hydra.unm.edu (David G. Adams)
Thu, 26 Oct 1989 22:59:25 +0000