Re: SPIRAL ARM from AustWiz!

From: owens@claven.cambridge.ibm.com (David Owens)

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1991 22:01:49 +0000

In article <1991Sep9.163634.1@st1.vuw.ac.nz> havok@st1.vuw.ac.nz writes:
>In article <1991Sep6.214932.9426@claven.cambridge.ibm.com>, owens@claven.cambridge.ibm.com (David Owens) writes:
>>
>> Great game...
>This is true! Spiral Arm is definately one of my most favourite PBM games.
>
>> Here are the rules I try to play by...
>>
>>   1.  Don't build fleet at the start of the game... invest, invest, invest.
>>       (see 4,5,6,7)
>Invest in UK? But how do you maintain battle losses and how do you take
>worlds(industrialized) from other players without dreadnoughts?

I said "at the start of the game".  While you expand into all the unoccupied
stars near you... before you need to fight.  I'm talking about before you need
to "take worlds from other players".  So there will be no "battle losses" to
maintain and there are few worlds worth taking yet...

>>   3.  Move up to tech 2 as soon as you can (so you can get more allies)
>Why buy tech 2, when it costs 500 UK or 1000 K, 4 turns production for most!
>Your allies need to ally with each other in case you want to use combinded
>MBFs(Main Battle Fleets).

I'm not talking about allying to fight - that comes later.  I want to trade.

>>   4.  Trade with your allies! (this is why you want more)
>EXO-Trading gives you 8% at tech one and 1% less every tech after that. This
>is not a good enough reason for allying. It does mean that you as the one with
>more than one ally receives more Exos! Your allies receive less especially as
>you may have to share your trade between the two of them.

8%? of what?  It costs you nothing.  You get money for free!  I wish I could
find a deal like that in real life!

"Not a good enough reason"?  How 'bout the FREE tech levels you and your allies
can pick up.  One of my allies in a game I played got his first 3 tech levels
for FREE!!!!!!

>
>>   5.  Don't burn pop, build up the ea to 50 right away.
>WRONG! On the colonies that can build POP eg Bio=1 POP=20 you get a 2 POP
>increase! This doesn't mean much, but it adds up after a while. I think
>you mean 50 EA on a 1 POP colony, otherwise you are missing out on a lot
>of free POP growth.

I think you misunderstood...  I meant don't let 10 pop slowly die waiting
for EA to come up to 50.  Buy the EA and get those pop producing as soon as
you can.  5 pop dead early in the game could mean a big difference 20
generations later...  I want to MAXIMIZE pop growth.

>>   7.  Avoid battles until at least turn 10 (take advantage of the 20% $ bonus)
>WHY? Don't you want the IND of the other players! Doesn't this presume that
>your neighbours are doing nothing on your borders eg attacking you!

This early in the game you will be wrecking more ships than you can make up
for in captured IND.

With a little diplomacy you usually can avoid having neighbours attack you
early on.  And... early in the game nobody is strong enough to finish another
player off.  All two players will accomplish by fighting early in the game
is to make them both weak.  Until you are strong enough to take on the
pop fire and Mon of a home-world... avoid fighting anyone.

Yes I "want the IND of the other players"... but I want it at the minimum
price to me.

>
>>   8.  Make sure you have tech 4 before you start fighting.
>WHY? You have spent some 2000 UK or 4000 K on building tech, where are your
>ships, dreadnoughts, fleet? What do you have to defend yourself with?
>If you do 7. Then you haven't expanded very far and so your empire is
>very small and you can be "rolled over" in next to no time!

If you have redesigned your ships and your enemy hasn't... he better have
at least twice as many ships.  If he has been "expanding" his empire since
early in the game, many of his ships will be space dust already - and all
he'll have to show for it is a few more mostly barren rocks in space.  When
it's time to fight... THEN build a fleet.  (you should have better production
than if you had built a big fleet earlier.)

>
>>   9.  Redesign Drd all defence, Bat all offence... alternating (Mon 2/3 offence)
>What happens when all you have in the attack is DRDs, a single enemy SCT will
>destroy all your DRDs, if they don't retreat. I killed 13 TRNS (Tech 4) with
>one SCT (Tech 1) in 690 rounds! With your idea it might take 400,000,000
>rounds to kill your 8 DRDs with my single SCT, but it'll be worth it!

9. a. Never fight with just Dreads.  (see 10)
      (also I don't mean 100% defense... just mostly.  A scout WON'T take
      out my dread.)  The point is - heavily defensive dreads will absorb
      the fire from the Mon's while the heavily offensive Bat's do the dammage.
      Partially dammaged ships repair themselves.  Dead ships don't.

>>  10.  Avoid fighting with portions of your fleet.  It's better to lose a planet
>>       without a fight and then take it back with your entire fleet.
>But how many planets can you afford to lose, especially when they now border
>your homeworld! MBFs (Main Battle Fleets) are good, but use caution.

It's true... if you are getting battered from all sides this strategy is hard.
The idea is not to get into this position!  If you are losing multiple worlds
bordering your homeworld... whatever strategy you used has already failed.

>>  12.  Try to ally with someone who has played many times.  (there are always
>>       several in a game)
>I know several people that fit your description, but I would sooner shot
>myself in the foot before allying with them! You should say ally with
>competent players...not some wally who's played 8 times and died 8 times.

I'm afraid Graaf Simulations doesn't supply you with a win-loss record of
everyone in the game.  You don't even get names.  Maybe the people you play
with do?  My advice is to talk to the people you bump into, make contacts,
make the best decision you can about who to ally with.  Experience is a
BIG plus.

>
>>  13.  Once you have filled your initial planets choose weakest player on
>>       your borders (preferably a non-player or someone with no allies or very
>>       low tech) and attack with everything you have.
>Define your idea of weakest player? For me it's someone who has no Fleet, no
>Dreadnoughts and a weak (low POP) economy. Hmmmm.....sounds like you!
>

Why do you think I would have a low POP?  My advice is not to waste even a
single POP or IND if you can help it  (even at the cost of a large fleet early
in the game.)  Why do you think I would have no Dreads?  I now have a strong
production system, huge amounts of cash, and all my money has been spent to
make more money.  I can now build a huge fleet quickly and rebuild fleet
faster than someone who has not invested as I have!

>> Are you playing with Graaf Simulations?
>NO I AM NOT!
>
>> Dave Owens    IBM Technical Computing Systems, Cambridge, MA
>Gee, Dave is this how you play? Sounds like a quick way to die, if things
>don't all go to plan. A real risk if you border a homicidal maniac like me!
>Cause I won't give you time to get your precious 20%, cause I'm that sort
>of guy!
> BLOOD and more BLOOD. VIOLENCE and WAR, great stuff! This is why I play
>Spiral Arm...something for all the family.
>
>HAVOK!

I agree.  BLOOD and more BLOOD. VIOLENCE and WAR, great stuff!  I just
prefer holding off as long as I can so when I do fight... less of the
blood is my own.

Let me try to sum this up again...  All I'm saying is if you are to win you
must play for the long-term.  Invest in IND and POP for production.  Invest
in planets EA for production.  Invest in UK for up to 20% interest.  Get
some allies to trade with for FREE MONEY and FREE TECH! (it also scares away
hostile neigbors)

Avoid war for as long as you can.  (This will allow you to get 20% on UK...
once that gets going you can really climb fast.)  Avoid battles you can't win.
There is no point in bumping heads with someone, grinding up ships for an
extended period of time.

Here's how my current game has gone...

turns 1-5:   built no extra fleet... invest, invest, invest.
turns 5-15:  made friends with neigbors as best I could... made non-aggression
	     pacts... neighbors went off to fight elswhere... invest, invest.
	     Bought tech 2.
turns 15-20: I had 6500 UK making 20% yearly...  I bought tech 3,4 and 5 in
	     one shot and started building a fleet.
turns 20-25: With better production, bigger fleet, higher tech, redesigned
	     ships, larger pop... I quickly swallowed the non-player to my
	     south (taking VERY little dammage to my fleet - no need to
	     rebuild).
turns 25-    With better production, bigger fleet, higher tech, redesigned
	     ships, larger pop... I have swallowed 3/4 of the guy who had
	     been slowly advancing against the non-player since early in the
	     game.  (again - taking very little dammage)

The bottom line is "war is costly".  The more the odds are in your favor, the
less costly it is.  It's not worth taking a few crappy planets from some guy
if it costs you half your fleet.

Of course if someone had insisted on fighting in the first 20 turns... I would
have been forced to fight back.  We both would have wasted money on ships that
ground each other up, and we both would have been weaker.

Dave Owens    IBM Technical Computing Systems, Cambridge, MA

References

SPIRAL ARM from AustWiz!
havok@st1.vuw.ac.nz
Thu, 05 Sep 1991 02:58:46 +0000
Re: SPIRAL ARM from AustWiz!
owens@claven.cambridge.ibm.com (David Owens)
Fri, 06 Sep 1991 21:49:32 +0000
Re: SPIRAL ARM from AustWiz!
havok@st1.vuw.ac.nz
Mon, 09 Sep 1991 04:36:34 +0000

Referenced By

SPIRAL ARM from AustWiz!
havok@st1.vuw.ac.nz
Thu, 05 Sep 1991 02:58:46 +0000
Re: SPIRAL ARM from AustWiz!
owens@claven.cambridge.ibm.com (David Owens)
Fri, 06 Sep 1991 21:49:32 +0000
Re: SPIRAL ARM from AustWiz!
havok@st1.vuw.ac.nz
Mon, 09 Sep 1991 04:36:34 +0000