Diplomacy Magazine -- Chapter Two From: loeb@geocub.UUCP (Daniel LOEB) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1991 08:50:52 +0000 Issue #261 of Chapter Two of the Electronic Protocol By Daniel Loeb (loeb@geocub.greco-prog.fr) October 24, 1991 ------------------------------------------------------------- Electronic Protocol Games played on the Diplomacy Adjudicator ------------------------------------------------------------- **** TABLE OF CONTENTS **** Conversation with Matt Crawford on CD's List of game openings List of EP games on the DA List of Gamemasters *** CONVERSATION WITH MATT CRAWFORD ON CD'S *** Daniel Loeb: >) In diplomacy a resignation really disrupts the game. It is even more >) disruptive to continue to allow the position be unplayed (via e.g. the >) civil disorder rules of diplomacy). Matt Crawford: >*** THIS SUCKS *** >When one has carefully learned the character of an enemy or ally, and >that person drops out, an unknown person steps in. Someone on the other >side of the map who has spent *his* time with a player who didn't drop >out keeps his valuable ally, and maybe steals yours. Furthermore, the >interval spent waiting for the replacement player is often so long that >another player drops out. Your pool of subs may be big enough to >prevent the latter syndrome for regular games, but not for variants. >I've played many variant games under Eric "no CD" Klien's execrable >house rules and NOT ONE has ever come to a conclusion. EVERY ONE so far >has died due to dropouts. Daniel Loeb: I suggest you reading my article on GMing (available from the JUDGE). In it, I explain that getting players from Eric's list takes time. So GM's should keep interested observers on hand to take over positions. Moreover, he should advertise all openings (via for example EP - Chapter Two). If the game is run on the JUDGE, a certain amount of advertising is done automatically. Of the EP games run on the JUDGE, only one seems to be running into problems: the game FONTENOY got stuck in 1906 with about 7 missing players, but this is the risks you run when organizing a 34 player variant. I find that unplayed powers tend to yield abnormal game results. A replacement player on the other hand tends to add vigor and life to a boring game while still in general respecting any agreements that were actually in the interest of that country. Matt: Garbage. When I spend 4 years destroying a player's will to resist, and he drops out, I've earned the right to ravage his country unopposed. I don't want to deal with some new guy who will come along and do something totally random. [CONTINUED BELOW] Daniel [reply]: Dropping out and allowing oneself to be replaced is certainly something random already! In any case, I don't think you can really bully someone into quitting. You might convince them that they have no chance. But in that case they'll just play suicidal, puppetly, or randomly without paying much attention to the game. By quitting they would be barring themselves from other games, and in general players try to avoid that. Matt [commentary on reply]: Oh? OH? Do they???? The Turkish player in a Youngstown EP game I'm in just dropped out, pleading not enough time to keep up with the game. He had just tried to double-cross two neighbors and failed, the other neighbor and I ganged up on him. He still has about 10 centers, but he's doomed. So he made up an excuse and QUIT. How do I know it was a made-up excuse? BECAUSE HE JUST JOINED ONE OR TWO OTHER GAMES! Danny: [Meta-commentary]: I agree with you in this case. Here is a good example of someone abusing the rules, and Eric Klien not paying enough attention to handle the problem. Why don't you contact him and Ken Lowe, and have action taken against the player? Matt [CONTINUED FROM ABOVE]: And that's only one possible case. I might have an ally whose machine goes poof. He might get replaced by a good buddy of my enemy! There might have been a I-do-this-for-you-now, you-do- that-for-me-later deal which is 1/2 way complete, and the "later" part never comes about. Daniel: If he REALLY was a good ally, he would have charged himself with the task of finding a suitable replacement when he found out he could not continue. He would have supplied this replacement with copies of all previous agreements and urged the new player to follow them. As a GM, I almost always prefer to pick ex-player chosen substitutes. And I'm more ready to excuse resignations if the ex-player provides me with a substitute and/or informs the sub of any ongoing agreements. Matt: Admit it, it's a matter of personal preference whether one likes subs or CD. And it's an objective fact that way, way too many variant games fizzle in EP due to dropouts. Daniel: If it is that objective, why don't you name some specific cases. In particular, I would like examples on the JUDGE, since I believe this is the most reliable game forum. Matt: I never played a game on this "judge" thing. But it is logically independent of the CD vs. sub question, is it not? [continued below] Daniel: No, it is not independant of the CD vs. sub question. Here are my reasons why there less problems on Judge: (1) Although Judge GM's tend to be as good as any others if not better, Judge can continue acting in the absence of any input from the GM. In particular, the game doesn't wait for the GM, and the Judge automatically looks for substitute players: the opening is listed to anyone using the "list" command, the opening is reported immediatedly to all members of the game include subs and alternates, the openings are also reported to members of the pseudo-game "control", and finally the opening is listed in chapter two of the Electronic Protocol. (2) The GM's efforts in finding subs (writting to his acquaintances, asking Eric Klien for someone from his list) is all IN ADDITION to the automatic efforts of the Judge. (3) Ken Lowe (the manager of the Judge) serves as an additional layer of control. (4) It is more interesting to play on the Judge (interesting game variants available, game summaries, press ...), so players don't lose interest as quickly. (5) It is more difficult to join a game on the Judge, so only mildly "committed" player can play. It is not something to do on a whim. (6) The Judge keeps track of each players "dedication". Resigning and being late kills your dedication. Many games on the Judge have a minimum dedication level just to enter the game. (7) The Judge allows "proxy" and "conditional" orders automatically. The use of these can help a player during a time in which he would otherwise be too busy or absent to play. Matt : Current Youngstown game "Von Ryan's Express" hasn't had a move in about six weeks -- it's supposed to be one/week. There were two delays for substitute players before the game even began. [continued below] Daniel: I find before game delays somewhat acceptable, since there are no penalties from avoiding playing in a game which hasn't started. Many player change there mind during the signup period and I can't fault them for that. However, a 6 week delay is a lot. Too bad your game is not on the judge. Matt: Ultimate Shambles game "Bordel" fizzled after many substitutions, including changes of GM. [continued below] Daniel: Changes of GM is a real killer. If the GM doesn't care about a game, that shows, and the players stop paying attention as well. Matt: Someone ran a 1914 game I played in, and it fizzled the same way -- I don't remember the name of the game. **** LIST OF GAME OPENINGS ***** Amazingly enough there is only one opening in *ALL* of the games listed below. Let's finally get Fontenoy back on track, and why not start up so new games while we are at it! (Of course, many of the games listed as in formation would appreciate signups!) GAME OPENINGS: Fontenoy I-Edi (1/1) GAMES IN FORMATION: Normandy, Cannes, Eylau, Iena, Bataan, 7senuf, vega **** LIST OF EP GAMES ON THE DA **** --- EXPLANATION --- Here is an update on games played on Judge. Each game is represented by a line of data (followed possibly by a line of comments --- please send me comments I can use if you are a GM!). The games are sorted according the the variant rules which are used. The 1st column gives the name of the game including a "#" if the game is a "private" or "unlisted" game. The 2nd column gives its Electronic Protocol number if available. The 3rd column gives the name of the GM (see list of GMs below). The other columns give updates on this game in chronological order with the most recent entry on the right. The updates for a game in formation indicate the number of players needed to start. For example, -5. The updates for a game in progress indicate the season (F for Fall or S for Spring), the last 2 digits of the year, and the phase (M for movement, B for builds, and R for retreats). All this is possibly followed by the indication of the number of replacement players (-1), temporary replacements (T1) needed, or needed later on (*1). I'm listing the status of each game not only for this week but for the last several weeks, so that you can see not only where the game is, but how fast it is moving. Please tell me if this extra information is useful to you. --- LIST --- Name EP# GM July31 Aug12 Sep4 Sep25 Oct4 Oct17 Oct24 ------- --- -- ------ ----- ---- ----- ---- ----- ----- STANDARD RULES banditos j_oregan S02M S03M S03M S03M S03M F03R F04M Black press is allowed berezina 92 loeb F12M F12B F13B F14M F14M S15R F15B 1 supply center from a win or a 17/17 draw jutland 112 loeb F04M F04B*1 S05M S05M-1 F05M S06M F06M marengo 129 scottb -5 F01B S03M S03M S04M S04R osijek cebulad S01M F01B paris 134 skiman -5 -4 -4 S01M S01M For EDU network only portnoy 125 koll02 S08R S09M F09M F09B-1 F10M S11M F11B sparrow 133 casmacin -1 F01B S02R S03M F03M tiberius 83 loeb S08M S09M*1 F09M F09M-1 S10M F10M F10M # normandy loeb -7 -4 -4 -2 -3 -3 All press will be written in French. Le jeu sera en francais. STANDARD GUNBOAT boadica pl436000 -6 S01M F02M # khafji skiman S01M Fast pace. Long delays (over a couple of hours) unacceptable. YOUNGSTOWN RULES (10 players) dien 124 ken F06M S07M-1 F07M F07B F07B F08M F08B giggles dwiseman S01M S02M F02B S03M F03B S04M Local ERIM game PURE RULES (7 players) cannes loeb -5 -5 -5 -4 -4 -5 -5 LOEB9 RULES (9 players) eylau loeb -5 -5 -4 -4 -3 -3 -3 GREAT BRITAIN RULES (7 players) hastings 139 loeb -4 -4 -3 -3 S01M S01M-1 S01M Austria quit before the game started in this variant CHAOS RULES (34 players) fontenoy 114 ken S05R-7 S05R-7 S05R-6 S05R-7 S05R-6 F05M-5 F05M-1 iena ken -22 -21 -21 -21 -21 -21 -19 1898 RULES (7 players) agincour 120 dmb F07M S08M F09M F09B S10M S11M F11M bataan dmb -6 -5 CROWDED RULES (10 players) 7senuf ken -9 -9 -7 -6 -5 -5 -5 MACHIAVELLI RULES vega cebula -8 -7 -7 -6 -5 --- FOR MORE INFO --- 1) For more recent information send "LIST" to JUDGE@U.WASHINGTON.EDU 2) For more detailed information about a particular game send "LIST <name_of_game>" to the JUDGE. For more detailed information about all games send "LIST FULL" to the JUDGE. 3) For information about the history of a particular game send "SUMMARY <name_of_game>" to the JDUGE. 4) To be informed of changes on an even more timely basis send "OBSERVE CONTROL <password>" to the JUDGE. 5) Any other questions about a particular game should be addressed to the GM. General questions can be addressed to me. **** LIST OF GAME MASTERS **** Brian Bacher bacherb@physics.orst.edu David M Bowen dmb@bigd.cray.com dmb@sequoia.cray.com Dave Cebula cebulad@physics.orst.edu Jamie Dreier pl436000@brownvm.brown.edu, pl436000@brownvm.bitnet Edward J Koll koll02@snybufva.bitnet Koll02@snybscva.bitnet Danny Loeb loeb@nestor.greco-prog.fr Ken Lowe jdr@u.washington.edu ken@milton.u.washington.edu Michael Luft scottb@cs.utexas.edu Sean MacIntosh casmacin@atlas.cs.upei.ca Jonathan Monsarrat jonmon@cadence.com Nawwar Kasrawi skiman@leland.stanford.edu John Aidan O'Regan J_ORegan%csvax1@iruccvax.UCC.IE Michael J Scholl nvq@l.cc.purdue.edu Referenced By Up