Diplomacy Magazine -- Chapter Two From: loeb@geocub.UUCP (Daniel LOEB) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1991 11:20:20 +0000 Issue #262 of Chapter Two of the Electronic Protocol By Daniel Loeb (loeb@geocub.greco-prog.fr) November 10, 1991 ------------------------------------------------------------- Electronic Protocol Games played on the Diplomacy Adjudicator ------------------------------------------------------------- **** TABLE OF CONTENTS **** Letters to the Editor Resolution of Pandin's Paradox Commentary on the Judge: Hallof Fame Commentary on the Judge: Game Formation Contest Results List of game openings List of EP games on the DA List of Gamemasters **** LETTERS TO THE EDITOR **** KUDOS Thanks for the copy of Chapter 2. As you might realize, the mailer appears to be working now. My roommate, Scott Boland, is actually considering trying to write a diplomat. While not a computer science major myself, I must admit to being intrigued by the challenge. By the way, I find the extra info about how quickly games are moving along on the JUDGE to be quite useful. - MikeL ------------------- CONTINUING DISCUSSION OF CD's I was reading your discussion about countries going into CD, and you asked for a demonstration of someone who drops out and ruins a game. You should take a look at the game Juteland. It is without a moderator, but it gives you an excellent example. I was playing Austria with a very close alliance to Italy. But then Italy dropped out, and the new Italy (probably very unexperienced) thought that it would be a great idea to stab me. You know what happens when Italy stabs Austria in the AI alliance. If you are interested I can send you the turn reports. -Andre Verweij [My reply: Perhaps, you could have done a better job of educating Italy. In any case, any solution for CD's is just making the best of a bad situation. Your example happens, but that's the risk you take in an alliance.] **** RESOLUTION OF PANDIN'S PARADOX **** Daniel Loeb to Ken Lowe: > Here is a resolution to Pandin's paradox. Could you study it and tell > me if it implies a change in our programs. [article by Matthew Seitz copied from Electronic Protocol omitted] ----------- Ken Lowe: No, the judge would evaluate this situation as outlined with the new XII.5. There are still situations where funny things happen though. The example I have is: Eng: A Yor-Den, F Nth C A Yor-Den Rus: F Nwy-Nth, F Den S F Nwy-Nth Fra: F Eng-Nth, F Bel S F Eng-Nth Ger: A Kie S Eng A Yor-Den In this example the Russian and French fleets bounce in the North Sea which prevents the English fleet from being dislodged. However, since the fleet is not dislodged the convoy should be good which would cut Russia's support which would cause the French fleet to dislodge the North Sea which would break the convoy... The German support is really superfluous showing that if you allow the convoy you can dislodge the supporting unit. To resolve this problem you would have to apply XII.5 at its word and not allow a convoyed army to affect a supporting fleet, even if the convoyed army has extra support; but then using that rule, a single Russian fleet could stand off a supported convoy: Eng: A Yor-Den, F Nth C A Yor-Den Rus: F Den S Eng F Nth (or F Den S F Bal, F Bal Hold) Ger: A Kie S Eng A Yor-Den Does the English army bounce in this situation, or does it dislodge the Russian fleet? ----------- Matthew Seitz: On Nov 5, 11:46am, Ken Lowe wrote: } To resolve this problem you would have to apply XII.5 } at its word and not allow a convoyed army to affect a supporting fleet, This paraphrase of XII.5 is not quite accurate. XII.5 does not say a convoyed army does not affect a supporting fleet, it says that a convoyed army does not cut the support of the supporting fleet. This misinterpretation may be what's confusing you in the following example: } even if the convoyed army has extra support; but then using that rule, } a single Russian fleet could stand off a supported convoy: } } Eng: A Yor-Den, F Nth C A Yor-Den } Rus: F Den S Eng F Nth (or F Den S F Bal, F Bal Hold) } Ger: A Kie S Eng A Yor-Den } } Does the English army bounce in this situation, or does it dislodge the } Russian fleet? } } -Ken }-- End of excerpt from Ken Lowe Actually, Rule XII.5 has no practical effect in this case. The result is the same under the first and second edition rules. Since F Den is being attacked by a unit that is better supported, F Den is dislodged (IX.2). So a single Russian fleet can't stand-off a supported attack. However, under the second edition rule XII.5, RUS F Den support of ENG F Nth is not cut by the convoyed attack from ENG A Yor (or, in your alternate orders, RUS F Den support for RUS F Bal is not cut), even though F Den is dislodged. Under the first edition rules, the dislodgement of RUS F Den would have cut the support of ENG F Nth (or, alternately, of RUS F Bal). This had the potential for paradox. For example, add to the above example above FRA: F Eng Ch.-Nth, F Bel S F Eng Ch. - Nth Under the first edition rules, France could argue that ENG A Yor cut the support of RUS F Den, so that ENG F Nth was dislodged. England could argue that the convoy was disrupted, so RUS F Den support was not cut and F Nth stands-off F Eng. Ch. Under second edition rules, XII.5 says that regardless of whether the convoy is disrupted or not, RUS F Den support is not cut. Therefore ENG F Nth stands-off FAN F Eng. Ch., and ENG A Yor dislodges RUS F Den. ------------ Ken Lowe's reply: > However, under the second edition rule XII.5, RUS F Den support of > ENG F Nth is not cut by the convoyed attack from ENG A Yor > even though F Den is dislodged. Hmmm, I guess that does have the effect of removing the paradoxes. I have a bit of a problem rationalizing the support remaining valid even when the fleet is dislodged, but it would certainly make coding a whole lot easier and sounds like a perfectly legitimate interpretation of the rule. ------------- Danny Loeb: Is Judge going to implement this change in rules? If so indicate what code is changed and I'll make the corresponding changes in the Diplomat Interface. **** COMMENTARY ON THE JUDGE: HALLOF FAME **** by Daniel Loeb Now that the game summaries are working (at least for some variants, and most of the time). I raise the question again of game-wide summaries. (1) That is to say, the command WHOIS JONES should supply (in addition to the current information) the following sort of table. Country Entry Exit Final Game At For With At By With Result Draw w/ Points FAust S02M 15 2 END 12 Win/03 5,32 1.33 IDien START 3 END 0 Elim@05 EApple S03M 17 5 F03R 97 5 Win/01 0.00 TNemo START 3 END 18 Win/01 6.00 JIena START 1 END 3 Surv@16 MWater START END TOTAL 6 games, 2 replacement, 1 forfeit 7.33pts Explanation: 1st column: game and power 2-3rd column: START or season play started and code number for immediately previous player 4th column: number of supply centers 5-6: END or last season played 7: number of SC at end of game 8: Result = Win, Elimination, Survival followed by number of partners in the win, or the number of years survived. 9: code numbers of partners in the draw 10: Points. Points are awarded to the LAST player for played the country unless the GM or Ken Lowe decides otherwise. Each winner earns (# of losers / # of winners) points. Thus, a solo win in a standard game = 6 pts A 3-way draw in the chaos variant = 11 pts (2) The command GET TOP10 should show the top 10 players in order of total number of points. (3) It should be possible for non-Judge games to be included in your data. A form should be available which could be filled out by the GM. You would look it over, and handfeed it into the Judge with YOUR password. (4) Players who drawed with each other should be barred from playing with each other without special intervention from the GM. The 2nd one to sign up would be an "alternate". This prevents a group of players from winning as a team again and again.... (This should work just like the same-site criteria.) (5) Players who serve as gamemaster should have their status automatically changed to "advanced". "novice" players who win a game should have their status automatically changed to "intermediate". (6) The total number of points could be used as a criteria to form selective "tournament" games. (This should work just like the dedication criteria.) -------- Reply by Ken: I'll "take it under advisement" and add it to the ubiquitous "wish-list". **** COMMENTARY ON THE JUDGE: GAME FORMATION **** by al%calsci@gvgpsa.gvg.tek.com (Al Petterson) I would like to make a criticism of, and propose a solution to, the way the Adjucator handles games in formation. I asked for a listing about forty-eight hours ago. Let me call your attention to a few interesting lines: zippy S1901M Youngstown. Forming: 3 more players needed. java S1901M Youngstown. Forming: 5 more players needed. spam S1901M Youngstown. Forming: 7 more players needed. As you can see, three Youngstown games are simultaneously forming. Now let me tell you the story of Kiev, which you might or might not have noticed was a Youngstown game created some months ago, and just last month failed to get started and was abandoned: I was the seventh player to sign onto Kiev. It was nearly a month before three more players signed up and the game could begin. I immediately began sending initial diplomatic overtures and was greeted by one resignation, four stony silences, and four responses out of my nine opponents. The four who chose not to speak to me chose not to speak to anyone, nor to bother to submit moves. Spring '01's deadline and grace period expired and five nations were abandoned. The remaining five of us decided to give up the ghost, terminate the game, and look for other forming Youngstown games. It's not hard to tell what happened. It took forever for Kiev to fill up with ten people. By the time all ten had signed on, five of the older signons had lost interest (or perhaps their net access). This problem could be minimized. Two other games were forming at the time. (The game Zippy was already forming before Kiev died, and several of us have moved over to it. But a month later, it still lacks three players.) Now we have a list of three games forming again. Fifteen people want to play Youngstown, give or take; perhaps there are a few who are signed up for more than one, but I lay odds there are at least ten. Getting ten people interested in a variant like Youngstown is not that easy and is made much more difficult when they have three choices of games to enter. Now I don't know why people are signing up for games like Spam when games like Zippy are trying to fill, but I have a suggestion which would alleviate the problem without restricting people's abilities to use the Adjucator: I know that games can be designated "private" when created (to permit the creator to allow access only to those who are aware of the game). I suggest that when a game is created, if another *identical* game is in formation, that the created game be made "private" by default until the identical game begins or is terminated. Also, if someone signs onto a public game and an identical public game is in formation and has more players already signed up, the signee should be warned and asked if he would prefer to sign onto the game in more advanced formation, rather than slowing things down for everybody. I don't believe this would be difficult to implement and would make all us Youngstowners much happier. Thanks for listening, --------------- Editor's comments: I've forwarded your letter to Ken and will include it in the next EP Chapter 2. However, the situation is a little more complicated than you describe. You say ZIPPY, JAVA, and SPAM are all identical sign up lists since they are all youngstown games. However, perhaps ZIPPY is a moderated game being played for the electronic protocol (DIAS). Perhaps JAVA is a "warp" speed game with grey press (non-DIAS). And perhaps SPAM is restricted to "experts" with high dedication with black press (DIAS). Players might easily be interested in one of the games without being interested in the others. I propose therefore the following guidelines: (1) When a new game is created, its creator is informed of all existing games in the category, and is given a chance to reverse his decision. (2) When a player joins a startup list, the player receives a list of all existing games in the category. (3) For very old signup lists, players should be required to verify their continued interest about once a month. (4) When a game fills up, players should once again verify their interest before countries are assigned. At the same time, players in all other games of the same category should be informed that this game is probably filled but may eventually need subs, so perhaps they would like to sub..... **** CONTEST RESULTS **** Julian West gave me the idea for a few more puzzles: >1) Connect the supply centers on a diplomacy map with lines, so that >there is a path (not necessarily direct) between any two supply >centers. What arrangement minimizes the total length of all the lines? Here is Julian West's solution. I'll compute the total lengths involved if anyone offers a competing solution. Julian believe his list is optimal. The resulting tree structure looks like (diagramatically) like the following. Edi-Lpl-Lon-Bel-Par-Bre \ Hol-Kie-Nwy-Swe-StP-Mos \ Ber-War Rom-Mar-Spa-Por \ / \ Mun-Ven Nap-Tun Ank-Sev \ / Tri-Vie-Bud-Ser-Bul-Rum-Con-Smy-Gre >2) What is the shortest path that allows a salesman to visit every >supply center? (Give the total length here as well.) (This puzzle is >not the same as puzzle 1.) Here is Julian West's solution. I'll compute the total lengths involved if anyone offers a competing solution. Julian didn't prove that his list was optimal. Tun-Nap-Rom-Mar-Por-Bre-Par-Lon-Lpl-Edi-Bel-Hol- -Kie-Den-Nwy-Swe-StP-Mos-War-Ber-Mun-Ven-Tri-Vie- -Bud-Ser-Bul-Rum-Sev-Ank-Con-Smy-Gre The list can be made into a loop by adding Gre-Tun as an extra link. From: Jamie <PL436000@brownvm.brown.edu> Is anyone really going to solve the travelling salesman problems? You'd have tomeasure all the distances first, and then it's a massive problem. My comments: In general, a perfect solution takes to long to find when there is a "large" number of cities. However, perhaps 34 is not large. (After the problem has been solved for the 48 continental state capitals of the US.) Moreover, approximative solutions can be rapidly computed. Julian West has shown that his solution's length is within a small factor of the perfect solution. >3) How many seas and provinces on the diplomacy map have you visitted >during your life? I will post all answers and give honors to the >winner. You do not get credit for a land province if you passed over >it in a plane or passed through it in a train without leaving the >airport or train station. To get credit for a sea, you must have >either swum or ridden in a boat in that sea. (Please continue to send your answers to this question using the format below. If you have already done so, please issue updates whenever you think your rank will change. If there is interest, I'll print updates occasionally....) From: west@geocub.greco-prog.fr (Julian West) (28 land + 7 sea = 35) Edi Lvp Yor Lon Par Gas Bur Mar Bel Hol Den Nwy Swe Ven Kie Ruh Mun Sil StP War Mos Gal Boh Trl Vie Bud Tri Pie GOL Eng Iri Nth Hel Ska GOB From: bobd%radian@natinst.com (Bob Donaldson) (29 land + 4 sea = 33) Cly Edi Lvp Yor Wal Lon Bre Pic Par Bur Bel Hol Kie Mun Bre Swi Ber Sil Boh Gal Vie Bud Tyr Ven Tri Ukr Stp Lvn Pic Eng Nth Adr Gob (Sev - if it includes Kursk) [DL: I'll check] From: Mark Lorrimer-Roberts <mlr@psychology.nottingham.ac.uk> (24 land + 8 sea = 32) Edi Cly Yor Lpl Wal Lon Bre Par Pic Bur Gas Mar Pie Ven Tri Bud Ser Gre Spa Por Kie Mun Bel Hol Ech MAO NAO NTH WMe GOL Iri Aeg From: ted@ultra.de Ted Schroeder (25 land + 6 sea = 31 + 3 in Nov) Spa Bre Wal Yor Lon Hol Kie Ruh Mun Pic Par Bur Mar Swi Pie Tus Ven Rom Nap Apu Trl Boh Sil Vie Gre Eng GOL TYS Ion Adr Aeg (By end November, will have added NAf,Wes,Bel) From: Jamie <PL436000@brownvm.brown.edu> (17 land + 6 sea = 23) Lon Yor StP Mos Mun Trl Bel Par Mar Spa Por Rom Nap Tus Ven Gre Pie MAO GOL Adr Ion Aeg TyS From: Helene Loeb (15 land + 4 sea = 19) Spa Gas Bre Par Bur Mar Pie Tus Ven Tri Trl Mun Ruh Hol Lon Eng MAO GOL Adr From: Alejandro Riverso <rivero@cc.unizar.es> (15 land + 4 sea = 19) Spa Por Mas Gas Par Mun Kie Ber Ruh Hol Bud Lvn Mos Rom (Ukr or Gal)? MAO GOL Wes Bal From: scottb@cs.utexas.edu (Charles Scott boland) (16 land + 1 sea = 17) Par Hol Kie Den Ruh Mun Par Trl Vie Pie Ven Tus Rom Nap Apu Gre Ion From: sadun@math.utexas.edu (Lorenzo Sadun) (11 land + 4 sea = 15) Gre Ser Ven Rom Tus Pie Nap Par Bel Lon Wal Ion Adr TyS Eng (Syr if that includes Israel) [DL: No, my dipl map only goes as far south as Lebanon... ironic] From: Daniel Loeb (12 land + 1 sea = 13) Spa Mar Gas Par Pic Bur Bel Hol Ruh Kie Lon Pie GOL From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) (0 land + 0 sea = 0) Well, just wanted to throw it out. I've never been to a province or sea on the regular Diplomacy map, but I've been to Formosa, East China Sea, South China Sea, Fuji, and Tokyo on the Youngstown map... **** LIST OF GAME OPENINGS ***** Osijek Austria (2/3) Eylau Austria (3/3) prespring 1901 Emu Austria (2/2) England (3/3) Khafji Italy (4/4) **** LIST OF EP GAMES ON THE DA **** --- EXPLANATION --- Here is an update on games played on Judge. Each game is represented by a line of data (followed possibly by a line of comments --- please send me comments I can use if you are a GM!). The games are sorted according the the variant rules which are used. The 1st column gives the name of the game including a "#" if the game is a "private" or "unlisted" game. The 2nd column gives its Electronic Protocol number if available. If the game is published in another EP chapter (other than number two), then that is indicated after a slash. The 3rd column gives the name of the GM (see list of GMs below). The other columns give updates on this game in chronological order with the most recent entry on the right. The updates for a game in formation indicate the number of players needed to start. For example, -5. The updates for a game in progress indicate the season (F for Fall or S for Spring), the last 2 digits of the year, and the phase (M for movement, B for builds, and R for retreats). All this is possibly followed by the indication of the number of replacement players (-1), temporary replacements (T1) needed, or needed later on (*1). I'm listing the status of each game not only for this week but for the last several weeks, so that you can see not only where the game is, but how fast it is moving. Please tell me if this extra information is useful to you. --- LIST --- Name EP# GM Aug12 Sep4 Sep25 Oct4 Oct17 Nov4 Nov10 ------- --- -- ----- ----- ---- ----- ---- ---- ----- STANDARD RULES banditos j_oregan S03M S03M S03M S03M F03R S05M F05M Black press is allowed jutland 112 loeb F04B*1 S05M S05M-1 F05M S06M S07M F07M marengo 129 scottb -5 F01B S03M S03M S04M S05M F05M osijek 137 cebulad S01M F02M F02M-1 paris 134 skiman -5 -4 -4 S01M S02M F02M portnoy 125 koll02 S09M F09M F09B-1 F10M S11M F12M S13M sparrow 133 casmacin -1 F01B S02R S03M F03B S04M tiberius 83/8 loeb S09M*1 F09M F09M-1 S10M F10M F11M S12M # normandy loeb -7 -4 -4 -2 -3 -3 -3 All press will be written in French. Le jeu sera en francais. croatia 148 nick -2 S01M For less experienced players STANDARD GUNBOAT - Identities of players unknown. All messages are public. boadica 147 pl436000 -6 S01M F04M F05M # khafji skiman S01M S03M F03M-1 Fast pace. Long delays (over a couple of hours) unacceptable. rogues j_oregan -7 YOUNGSTOWN RULES (10 players) Extended map including Asia and Africa. dien 124 ken S07M-1 F07M F07B F07B F08M F09M S10M giggles dwiseman S01M S02M F02B S03M F03B F04B S05M Local ERIM game PURE RULES (7 players) Reduced map with only 7 spaces all connected. cannes loeb -5 -5 -4 -4 -5 -5 -5 LOEB9 RULES (9 players) Spain and Scandanavia are added as extra players. eylau loeb -5 -4 -4 -3 -3 S01M S01M-1 Austria has quit in pre-Spring 1901. Help us start this game. GREAT BRITAIN RULES (7 players) Britain starts with 6 SC's but all armies! hastings 139 loeb -4 -3 -3 S01M S01M-1 F01M S02M CHAOS RULES (34 players) Regular map. Each SC is owned by a different player. fontenoy 114/4 ken S05R-7 S05R-6 S05R-7 S05R-6 F05M-5 S06M F06M iena ken -21 -21 -21 -21 -21 -18 -18 1898 RULES (7 players) Regular map. Each player starts with only his capital. agincour 120 dmb S08M F09M F09B S10M S11M F12M F12M France is nearing victory bataan dmb -6 -3 -3 CROWDED RULES (10 players) 3 players are squeezed in, leaving no neutrals. 7senuf ken -9 -7 -6 -5 -5 -5 -6 emu C9106225 S02M-4 S02M-2 MACHIAVELLI RULES - An economic variant of Diplomacy marketed by Avalon Hills vega cebula -8 -7 -7 -6 -5 -4 cloak ken U54M-1 S55M S55R ??? ??? F55B over Gunboat variant dagger ken S54M-1 F54M F54B ??? ??? S56R U56M poverty andre -7 --- FOR MORE INFO --- 1) For more recent information send "LIST" to JUDGE@U.WASHINGTON.EDU 2) For more detailed information about a particular game send "LIST <name_of_game>" to the JUDGE. For more detailed information about all games send "LIST FULL" to the JUDGE. 3) For information about the history of a particular game send "SUMMARY <name_of_game>" to the JUDGE. 4) To be informed of changes on an even more timely basis send "OBSERVE CONTROL <password>" to the JUDGE. 5) For a copy of the house rules, send "GET EP.HOUSE.RULES" to the JUDGE. For a copy of the rules for variant, send the "GET INFO.<name_of_variant" to the JUDGE, or "GET PRESS" or "GUN GUNBOAT" in the case of those variants. 5) Any other questions about a particular game should be addressed to the GM. General questions can be addressed to me or Ken Lowe. **** LIST OF GAME MASTERS **** Brian Bacher bacherb@physics.orst.edu David M Bowen dmb@bigd.cray.com dmb@sequoia.cray.com Dave Cebula cebulad@physics.orst.edu Jamie Dreier pl436000@brownvm.brown.edu, pl436000@brownvm.bitnet Nicholas Fitzpatrick nick@sunburn.waterloo.edu Nawwar Kasrawi skiman@leland.stanford.edu Edward J Koll koll02@snybufva.bitnet Koll02@snybscva.bitnet Danny Loeb loeb@nestor.greco-prog.fr Ken Lowe jdr@u.washington.edu ken@milton.u.washington.edu Michael Luft scottb@cs.utexas.edu Sean MacIntosh casmacin@atlas.cs.upei.ca John Aidan O'Regan J_ORegan%csvax1@iruccvax.UCC.IE Andre Verweij andre@duteina.tudelft.nl andre@hlniob.uucp Up