Diplomacy Zine -- Chapter Eight EP #255 From: Eric_S_Klien@cup.portal.com Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1991 20:33:08 +0000 Issue #255 of ELECTRONIC PROTOCOL: ************************************************************************* Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy. ************************************************************************* Chapter One contains: BAGHDAD, BLITZKRIEG II, KING'S GAMBIT, PASSCHENDAELE, DRAGONS, BLACK OCTOBER, OPERATION DESERT STORM, THE SOMME And is published by uunet!cti1!rlister or rlister@cti.com/Russ Lister Chapter Two contains: BEREZINA, PORTNOY, JUTLAND, TIBERIUS, MARENGO, PARIS, SPARROW, SNORRI AJAX, DIEN, FONTENOY, AGINCOURT And is published by loeb@geocub.greco-prog.fr/Daniel E. Loeb Chapter Three contains: SQUALANE, BRUSILOV OFFENSIVE II, CULLODEN, GANDALF'S REVENGE, GOODBYE BLUE SKY, MASTERS OF DECEIT, PANDORA, NOW AND ZEN And is published by mad-2@kub.nl/Constantijn Wekx Chapter Four contains: DEADLY DAGGERS, MONTREUIL-SUR-MER, FIRE WHEN READY, THUNDERDOME, BEREZINA, FONTENOY And needs a publisher. Chapter Five contains: YALTA, AJAX And needs a publisher. Chapter Six contains: BERLIN WALL, HIROSHIMA, GENGHIS KHAN, SEA LION, VIOLENT PEACE, GIBRALTAR And is published by barry@brahms.udel.edu/Barry Fausnaugh. Chapter Seven contains: TIBERIUS, BETELGEUSE, IRON CROSS, TEUNISGEK, RIYADH'S RECKONING And needs a publisher. Chapter Eight contains: TIBERIUS, BETELGEUSE, IRON CROSS, GUERNICA, TEUNISGEK, WOLF BLITZER, THE COMMANDERS, THE SUTHERLAND CONFLICT ------------- Chapter Eight ------------- Table of Contents: Jim and Dan Do Atlanta Letters about variants by Peter Jennings and Matthew Seitz Letter from Daniel Loeb Letter from Jamie Dreier Letter from Eric Brosius ---- The following was scribed by cmmjr@flight-sim.gatech.edu/Cliff McKeithan: From Diplomacy World #60: Jim and Dan Do Atlanta by Jim Yerkey I came away from ORIGINS '90 in Atlanta with four impressions: the Hilton Towers is an excellent facility for gaming, Dragon Con attracts more women than any gaming event I've ever been to (many of them were barely clad in the barest of D&D type costumes), it's not a good practice to leave your car parked on a downtown Atlanta street over night, and the people that ran it could do themselves a lot of good by taking lessons from the folks at AtlantiCon, DixieCon, the late great MaryCon, and everybody else in the "CON" business. After attending DixieCon/DipCon/World DipCon I arranged to spend the following week calling on some of my business contacts in the southeast and then attend ORIGINS the following weekend. I was joined for the weekend by my old associate and (after getting the better of him in the first game we played there) former friend Dan Mathias. Things were going bad well before we made the trek south. Despite repeated attempts to get information as to tournament times, number of rounds, fees for playing in the tournaments, etc. I had received nothing from them. Dan had sent his registration info in (sans Dip tournament info) months before and had gotten no reply. So, when I picked him up at the Atlanta airport (that's a different adventure for another time) and headed for the Hilton, we were flying blind. We arrived at ORIGINS at about 11:00 PM Tursday and were informed by ORIGINS security that we could not register because no one knew where the registrars were. Nor could they provide us with an ORIGINS booklet because no one knew where they were either. Dan, using the Diplomatic prowess he has come to be known for, smooth talked these Junior Gestapo Agents into taking us to their leader. There we found a little cooperation, and more importantly, the elusive ORIGINS booklets. We found that we had already missed the 1st round of Diplomacy (6:00 PM Thursday) and that we would miss the 2nd round which started at 2:00 AM (that's right AM) Friday if we didn't find a way to get registered. The tournament was set up to run at 6:00 PM and 2:00 AM on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Additional rounds were added at 9:00 AM on Saturday and Sunday. Well, we the unpaid were again informed that we would have to leave. We headed back to our rental digs at El'Cheapo Motel, south of the city, and I stated calling the Hilton to see if I could locate anyone with some authority, other than the Guards. It was like calling the Federal Social Security Administration. Nobody know nothin' and everybody passed me off to someone else. I gave up after about 30 minutes. "Smoothy Dan" took over and in no time had talked the Security people into letting us play. But, we were not to wander around the facility. We took an hour and a half nap, showered and headed for the Hilton again, getting there just in time to be included on the last of 4 boards. Danny drew France and put together an alliance with Germany to dispose of England. I drew Austria and put together an AIR alliance. Russia sent two units south to secure Rumania and his Southern flank. All of his other units, for the entire game, fought in Germany, and Scandinavia, as well as England. Italy took tunis, and then sent two fleets to help me against Turkey. As Turkey was subdued, Italy redirected his attention to the West. By this time, Russia was creating havoc for France and Germany around England. So much that Dan had to send a Fleet up into the North Atlantic and the Norweigan. This, of course, meant that he was unprotected at home. Italy took full advantage of the situation taking Marseille and Spain before France could stop him. Then smooth-talking Danny struck pay dirt. He convinced Austria (me), who had finished off Turkey, to come to his aid. I caught Italy as much off guard and out of position as he had caught France. And while Dan was retaking his lost supply centers, I was able to take over most of the rest of Italy. Russia and I then began a march to the Atlantic. As happens in tournaments two things became obvious: one, that Russia and I had the upper hand and, two, that we were all tired and running out of time. So, the remaining 5 players voted a two way Russian/Austrian draw. It was now about 8:00 AM and Registration was open. We got into line and signed up for Diplomacy and Shogun. In the Registration area we bumped into several Dipsters including Bob Odear and the soon to be expecting Mrs. Odear, Don Del Grande, and the previous weekend's winner Jason Bergmann. We were now planning to get some shuteye. Upon arriving at my car we found the back quarter window had been broken out and my case of cassette tapes gone. In the 6:00 PM Friday round Dan wa a part of a three way draw as France. In my second game I drew Germany. This game was one of those long, fiercely fought affairs which go nowhere. It ended in what was basically a four player deadlock, although there were six players on the board at the end. The ensuing discussion about who was to be in a draw, etc. lasted forever. I finally voted myself out of it so I could get some rest before the 2:00 AM round began; as it was already close to 1:00 AM. Once again I drew Germany. England began immediately pushing for a Western Triple. I was wary of this arrangement at first and quickly found that France was as well. So we cooked up a scheme wherein we would go along with England until the time was right to get him out of our "back yard." I, of course, had further plans (just as I'm sure both of them did) to make sure that I got the lion's share of all the spoils. I endeavored to get both of them in positions from which they could do me no harm. As the game progressed I encouraged France to build fleets so he could "better attack into the Med." Additionally I pointed out that having all those fleets would come in handy when it came time for France and I to cut England out of the deal. France played the entire game with 2 armies. Conversely I tried to convince England that he needed to build armies to be able to conquer Russia. If my recollection is correct he played the entire game with two fleets. I was running a risk, being flanked by his armies in Scandinavia and Russia, but so long as France built fleets I was not really surrounded. Obviously there would be a natural tendancy on the part of France to go after England, no matter how much diplomatic effort England put into turning him around, because of this imbalance of French fleets vs. armies. Much to my relief/disbelief this strategy worked to a "T"; even better! The three of us moved quickly and quietly enough that the eastern powers were late getting their defenses organized and set up. England and I trashed Russia very quickly with Turkey jumping in to grab Sevastapol. I also made some gains in Austria and helped France against Italy. Despite their best diplomatic efforts Turkey and Austria could not split this western triple. France and I agreed that the taking of the last Italian supply center would be the start of the assault on England. Because I was going to carry on the batle against AT, France would begin the attack alone. With the build resulting from his conquest of the final Italian center, France would build a fleet in Brest. Reading of the Fall's moves revealed not only the aforementioned fleet in Brest but that Turkey and Austria had decided to call it a day, as it was now between 7:30 and 8:00 AM and everybody was wearing down. They both went into civil disorder (CD). I personally thought they were significantly premature in giving up. In light of the coming Frech stab of England they were, I'm sure, regretting their decisions. This, of course, put me in the driver's seat. France had his only 2 armies in Italy and all but one of his fleets were in the area. Therefore he could not mount a viable offense against me while I could do some real damage by throwing several of my armies into his homeland. I was also in position to potentially grab all of the CD supply centers while keeping the English units pretty much bottled up in Russia. I estimated I could handle any two of these chores. To handle all three would have taken some luck, and I was beginning to run down like Austria and Turkey. I decided to try to bluff my way into a win. Pointing out my tactical advantage to France, as well as the problem he would have getting England to trust him as a result of his building a fleet in Brest (that had been outlawed in a previous agreement between the three of us), I convinced him to support my attempt to get the win. He would, of course, get to keep the supply centers he already had. With his support behind me I made an offer to England. He could keep his supply centers, I would get all the CD'd centers and get the win with 19 centers. England was pretty upset, just as most of us are when we're stabbed, and it took a little time but he finally saw he could not get himself into a draw and gave in. The CD by the Austrian and Turkish players obviously was the key point in the win. Sometimes you get help from directions you would never dream of. The Diplomacy Tournament was run by Mike and Matt Kelly of MaryCon fame. Within the confines of the time, space, and scheduling limitations which were handed to them they did a good job. They used the MaryCon scoring system: 1 point for each supply center held when the game ends, and a 34 point bonus pool to be divided up evenly amongst all players involved in the result (34 points to a sole winner, 17 points to both parts of a 2 way draw, etc.). To my knowledge, however, no effort was made to separate friends. The playing times were a pain, as was the registration problems illustrated above. Those were not under the control of the Kellys. I would have like to see a larger turnout. The final two rounds (one of which was added to the schedule after the tournament began) were cancelled for lack of interest. The total number of players was only 85; and many of them only played one round. The skill level of the players ran from those who didn't know the rules all the way up to Dip master Jason Bergmann. ORIGINS '91 will be back in Baltimore next year. We are looking for a big turnout and an exciting tournament. ORIGINS 90 Final Results 1. Jim Yerkey Best Austria: Jim Yerkey 2. Stan Plummer Best England: Gabe Dambaugh 3. Gabe Dambaugh Best France: Stan Plummer 4. Garth Thorpe Best Germany: Jim Yerkey 5. Jeff Freymuller Best Italy: Jerry Steffer 6. Bart DePalma Best Russia: Chris Semler 7. Jason Bergmann Best Turkey: Garth Thorpe 8. Robert Albrecht Jim Yerkey (4 Dutton Avenue, Baltimore MD 21228) is the 1990 ORIGINS Diplomacy Champion. --- Letter from Pete D Jennings <pdja@engin.umich.edu> As to the World Diplomacy, I am looking for a map. There was a posting about this variant on rec.games.pbm a while back. Do you know who was running the game, or where I could find a map? Letter from seitz@netcom.com (Matthew Seitz) On the subject of variants, is anyone playing Twin Earths Diplomacy? During Jr. High and High School, this was the favorite variant among my friends. --- In issue #251, I accidently reprinted an old letter from Steve Robinson claiming that Diplomacy is a game of perfect information. Here is a reprint of Daniel Loeb's response: From: loeb@geocub.greco-prog.fr (Daniel LOEB) I would like to respond to the remarks of Steve Robinson on my latest posting in the Electronic Protocol. He says that Diplomacy (like Chess or Go) is a game of perfect information. In fact, this is not the case. In Chess of Go, each player moves in his turn, and that together with his knowlege of the board, allows the players in theory to always make the best moves possible. However, in Diplomacy, moves are revealed simultaneously. While you can all see the position on the board and while there is no luck in the resolution of the orders, you can only guess what moves the other players are writting. The classic example is Italian Fleet Tyrrhenian versus Turkish fleet Ionian. Italy can not defend both Naples and Tunis. He must guess which one to defend. Conversely, Turkey might assume that Italy will cover one of the two, and then prefer to advance his fleet into the Tyrrhenian instead of gambling on a 50% chance. Turkey's decision will be based on his perception of the probabilities. There is no "best" action in an deterministic sence, but only in a probabilitic sence. Yours, Daniel Loeb, Diplomacy Programming Project "Pas de Panique" Here is a new letter from pl436000@brownvm.bitnet/Jamie Dreier supporting Danny: The number of options facing any player at any time is not relevant to whether the game is perfect information or not. What's relevant is whether the player knows exactly which node in the game tree he's on. Technically, a game is perfect information if every node in the tree forms an information set by itself. That doesn't happen in Diplomacy. Every combination of orders that might be submitted by the other players puts me at a different node (that is, determines in a different way what will happen if I submit such-and-such orders). So I don't know which node I'm sitting on. In short, Danny is right: no simultaneous game can be perfect information. There are finite games that ARE perfect info, like chess. There are finite games that are NOT perfect info, like Dip. Or, to take a simpler example, like scissor-paper-rock. There are infinite games that are perfect info. Infinite games do not spring readily to mind, but here's a made-up one: We take turns placing checkers on the table in front of us. The first player who is unable to place a checker on the table, because there is no room, loses. This game is infinite in the sense that at most junctures there are a continuum of possible moves. (Technically, each node has an infinite number of paths leading out of it, though the length of paths from start to finish is always finite.) But, it is perfect information. (Quiz for combinatorialists: if all of the checkers are the same size and shape, should the first or second player win this game?) There are also infinite games that are not perfect information, but I am tired of giving examples. Danny and I once discussed the possibility of a perfect information variant of Dip., but there don't seem to be any good ones in the offing. Jamie Here is a new letter from Eric Brosius <72060.1540@CompuServe.COM> supporting Danny: I wanted to comment on the discussion about games of "perfect information". The way I remember it, part of the definition of such a game is that there are no simultaneous moves. I.e., the primitive game of "rock, paper, scissors" is *not* a game of perfect information. Neither is Diplomacy. Publisher comments: If you didn't receive issues #249 - #252 around Oct 28th, let me know and I'll resend them to you. Issues #253 - #254 are available directly from me or from the Diplomacy conference on Portal. They contain game reports of THE SUTHERLAND CONFLICT, which has the best press of any of my games. Quote is from The Devil's Dictionary by Ambrose Bierce. ****************************************************************************** To join in the fun, send your name, home address, home and work phone numbers, and country preferences to Eric_S_Klien@cup.portal.com. ****************************************************************************** Up