Duelmasters: More on Plungers From: ccs012@yogi.ucdavis.edu (Dennis Cleary) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1991 18:55:08 +0000 [John White writes...] >So right now, I'm working on a character whom I hope will do well at all levels >of competition. Maybe he'll die before then. Maybe not. I guess that's just >part of the thrill. No, that's part of the pain. I believe the death rate among young characters is only higher for aimed blows than it is for plungers. >Please note that this article is not meant to be a thorough discussion on the >topic. Rather, I wish to present what my experience has shown me, and what I >have learned from discussion with others. I hope to get some feedback as well. Ah, c'mon John! This is Duelmasters. You've got to get your ego out of storage and dust it off. If it's worked for you, it'll work for _everybody_! At least, that's what most managers think. :) >The Parry-Lunger >ST: 9-11 This gladitorial type is looking for stength for the purpose of > using weapons. Also, getting normal damage is a good idea... Such a narrow range is a little inhibiting but in general I agree with you. I'd actually go as low as a 5 ST, for the right character. A 7 gives the EP and the SH, both of which are effective for the PL. >CN: 7-10 This is your call. Obviously, you want points in the skill > areas, but you don't want to die (do you?). If you can get a > god, will he live? General rule of thumb: never add points to CN. If you're lucky enough to get a 7 CN or lower, then that's just more points for WT, WL, and DF! Otherwise, leave CN where it's at and try to make all the other stats fit. >SZ: 3-11 This depends on what you want to do; Tinygod or big and burly? > Same old arguements: small guys have points elsewhere, but > bigger guys are more survivable... Also, both Donatello (20-0 at the Primus tourney) and Villiage Idiot (perennial Primus TV, once or twice TC himself) are both SZ 11. Don't knock big guys, they can do well. I like your range, myself, although like most, I would _prefer_ a SZ 3 over a SZ 11, all other things being equal. >WT: 17-21 Of course I'm an extremist. I've seen great skill bonuses and > trains with 21 wit, but 17-18 is a little more real ... My > weakness is my desire to see good guys in AD and Primus. 15 is > actually ok, and 13 is plausible (with 21 Will) Okay, I will admit that the bonuses one gets for a WT 21 are fantastic, but they are only worthwhile if your character is essentially a survivor. I would prefer a 17 WT 17 WL over a 21 WT 13 WL anyday! A 13 is awfully low if you're looking at Primus (although I have a friend who has a Waste up there who started with a 13 WT). If you want Primus-eligible, I'd say a 17 WT. >WL: 17-21 What can I say? Attack, parry, defense: some of the most > important PL attributes. Of course, there is the issue of stat > training at the higher levels as well. A 21 WL almost guarantees an expert rating in Attack on the roll-up, whereas a 17 WL doesn't (a WT 15 WL 21 DF 15 PL got an expert in Attack, while another WT/WL/DF 17 got expert in 1). I still like WL 17, it gives nice bonuses all-around, and is helpful with endurance. If I had to choose between WT 21 and WL 21, I'd pick WT, however. It affects more things that are important. Hopefully, the extra Defense and Riposte that WT gives would make up for the Parry deficiency. >SP: 7-9 Can you guess? I'm not a fan of speed. From what I've seen, > speed doesn't give you many skills untill you get to 13+. Also > You need the points elsewhere... Actually, SP gives a ton of bonuses, even at stats less than 9 (we, of course, have a lot more data about low SPs than we do about any other low stat). The problem is that it gives the _wrong_ skills. Same conclusion, different reasons. >DF: 11-21 Again, your call. I like the idea of a 17 deft, but, this is > the stat that can be REALLY low, and still have a good warrior. > I don't take chances, though ... I'd say a minimum of 13 DF here. My normal mins are WT 13 WL 17 DF 13 for the plunger style, and it seems to work out fairly well. Of course, better mins would be WT 17 WL 17 DF 17, but then I'd never be able to run a plunger ever! :) >Perhaps: 11-10-5-17-17-7-17; I know, I know "this screams parry-rip or aimed >blow...but why try what's been done? Because it works? :) Seriously, though, I agree, although don't think that there are that many good aimed blows running around, even in AD. I might go AB over PL if I had just a dynamite roll-up, if only because there's less chance that I'll get a good AB roll-up than a good PL roll-up (and also because Vlad Taltos might finally shut up and let me have some peace, if I ever took his advice and made one :) ). I like this guy as a PL, though. I do. >Strengths: ATTACK! Expert within two or so skills. The smaller people will >have better defense, good enough to take out some offensives, hopefully... Actually, Init and Parry both fall under strengths as well, especially for a really good roll-up like the one outlined above. A guy I know has a Plunger who was 11-12-5-17-17-5-17, and got expert Attack on the roll-up, Init in 3, Parry in 4. Not too shabby, eh? >Weaknesses: Depends on what you call weak. Should have Ex. init around 6 >skills. Defense, parry, and riposte tend to fall within the 8-12 category, in >that order... Low speed, but quickness doesn't depend on that anyway... No, but Decis does. This is only area that this Plunger will really be weak in. Still, if everything else comes out below average, it will still more than make up for this deficiency! >Ahhhh! Of course! How could this be complete without a strategy discussion? >Actually, this area is kind of nebulous ... there are so many different ways >that a plunger can be run, they each have some merit: >Finness lunger: >10 10 8 6 4 4 2 >10 8 6 4 6 6 3 >7 6 8 6 4 4 3 >L L L L L L P >I've never actually run my guys this way;I understand that taking out bashers >is possible if you get the jump or the initiative (somehow). This is possible >against offensives that don't use high numbers; also good against >inexperienced managers... This is a joke, right? "Finesse" plungers going this way? Yes, you can sometimes get the jump on offensives, but I wouldn't count on it. I only use this strategy against other defensives. Plungers have the best offense of any of the early finesse styles, and can use it with devastating effect on other finesse warriors. Parry-Strikes and Aimed Blows are especially susceptible to this strategy. However, I really wouldn't suggest it against any offensives. I send my bashers, strikers, and lungers after these guys, and have not only a high win percentage, but a pretty good kill rate as well. Pure suicide. >Balanced guy: >2 4 8 8 4 4 2 >3 6 7 7 6 6 3 >3 4 6 6 4 4 3 >P L L L L L D >This is an interesting mix of offensive and defensive balance...Doesn't work >that well against the bashing attack. The 4-6-4-L is the way that I try to >achieve a balanced attack and defense. If anyone has found a better balanced >strategy, then I would be glad to hear it. This is a good overall strategy, that will, depending on how good your plunger is, net you about a 5-5 record through your first ten fights. This is about all you can expect out of any plunger, anything more is a bonus. After that you're skilled enough to start taking out most characters, and get yourself a pretty good winning record. >Scum: >2 2 3 4 4 2 2 >3 3 3 5 5 3 3 >3 3 3 4 4 2 2 >P P P P P >Of course, people will hate you, and this is a waste of a good warrior, if >you've got one. If you want to scum, go play in the swamp; that's what I >always say ... Heh, heh. That's a good one. I'll have to remember that. ! Donald Trump, CEO Trump Gladiatorial Enterprises ! dfcleary@ucdavis.edu ! ! Too Much Posse - Murska (35) ! "People use the DA too ! ! Stragety, Dammit! - Andor (57) ! much -- let me kill ! ! Riff-Raff Crew - Free Blades (103) ! them!" - Peel The Cap ! Up