Diplomacy Magazine -- Chapter Two From: loeb@geocub.UUCP (Daniel LOEB) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1992 10:34:24 +0000 Issue #275 of Chapter Two of the Electronic Protocol By Daniel Loeb (loeb@geocub.greco-prog.fr) February 27, 1992 Distributed via: rec.games.pbm rec.games.board dipl-l ------------------------------------------------------------- Electronic Protocol Games played on the Diplomacy Adjudicator ------------------------------------------------------------- **** TABLE OF CONTENTS **** PART ONE - Opinions, Letters, and Editorials: Contest Missings Results Rules Question Rec.Games.Board Flist update Chapter 2 -> Chapter 8 PART TWO - Summary of all moderated games on the Judge: List of game openings List of EP games on the DA For more info List of Gamemasters PART THREE - Report from the Battle Front Portnoy End of Game Report Eylau 1904 report ***** PART ONE ***** **** CONTEST **** Reprinted from LE FRONT DE LIBERATION DU DIPLOMACY (9/23/79) Volume IV, Issue 2, Page 4 *** You be the player contest *** France and Engladn war with each other with Germany being caught in the balance. You, the player, must decide on the best course of action for each of these three countries in order to take the most supply centers on this coming turn, a fall season, or to preserve as many centers for yourself as possible. For the purposesof this contest, you do not have to consider any other unit on the game board nor any other factor except what is given hereunder: E: F Hol, F Nth, F Nwy, F Bal F: F NAO, F Eng, A Bel, A Ruh, A Pic, A Bur G: A Kie, A Mun who own the following supply centers prior to this turn: E: Lon, Lvp, Edi, Hol, Den, Nwy F: Por, Spa, Mar, Par, Bre, Bel, Mun G: Kie, Ber ---- Please send your entries to me with your reasoning, and I'll publish them. Maybe I'll even get my diplomat to enter. Entries from the old contests are still worth sending in.... **** MISSING RESULTS **** I'm still looking for results of the following games: DUNKIRK DRAGONSLAYER NICKEL JACAL CAPTAIN-CAVEMAN, GETSOME, MAELSTROM, DEFCON, REPUBLIC, VERDUN, TANNENBURG Please tell me if you know on any other games with a solo victory. **** RULES QUESTION **** From: chpetk@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Toby Kelsey) I have been only playing Diplomacy for a short time, and a position has arisen which the rules are unclear about. (English) Fleet Norway -> Sweden (German) Fleet Denmark s. Fl. Norway -> Sweden (English) Fleet North Sea -> Norway (English) Fleet Norwegian Sea s. Fl. North Sea -> Norway (Russian) Army Finland -> Norway (Russian) Fleet Sweden s. A. Finland -> Norway (Russian) Fleet St. Petersburg (N. Coast) s. A. Finland -> Norway Obviously the attack on Sweden succeeds. Russia is mounting a force 3 attack on Norway. According to the rules a unit cannot cut the support of an attack on itself (this is stated clearly). So the force 3 attack should still be force 3 and Russia should gain Norway, overcoming England's force 2 attack. However one of the examples given in the rules simply contradicts this. It appears that the (implicit) rule being used is that if an attack succeeds then support is cut even if it is support for an attack against that unit. If the attack against Sweden fails then the support isn't cut. Doesn't it contradict the idea that superior force always wins (since now a unit may cut the support of an attack against itself)? Doesn't it also contradict the idea that moves are simultaneous? You now cannot decide which attacks work after calculating support/cutting support, as whether support exists may depend on whether an attack succeeds. ------ From: John of Gaunt, currently playing England in e-mail Diplomacy Check out Rule X. CUTTING SUPPORT. A unit attacked from anywhere but the space into which it is giving support will have that support cut. A unit dislodged by ANY attack, including one coming from the space into which it is giving support, also has its support cut. The Swedish support in this instance fails, because the English-German attack on Sweden succeeds. As a result, the Russian and English attacks on Norway both fail. This does not violate any principles of the game. It is the only result consistent with the principles of the game. ------ From: Mel Sorry Brian, but this is incorrect. The determination of support cutting cannot make reference to dislodgement (the single exception to this involves convoys which doesn't apply here) No attack can cut support to a (second) attack on any of the member of the first attack. see my other posting for a more detailed analysis. ----- From: Jim Van Verth -- Internet: jvverth@figaro.med.harvard.EDU No, sorry, it succeeds. This is not a case of A going to B and B going to A, this is A going to B and B supporting C to A. The move Nwy-Swe succeeds as it has force 2 and Swe has only force 1 (no one is supporting poor Sweden), so Sweden is dislodged. By rule X, if a supporting unit is dislodged by an attack from *any* space (as Sweden is), even one into which it is giving support (vis a vis Sweden), that support is cut. Therefore the Russian A Fin-Nwy loses the support from Sweden, has only force 2, not 3, and is bounced by the equivalent English F Nth-Nwy (supported by Nrg). >> Doesn't it also contradict the idea that moves are >>simultaneous? You now cannot decide which attacks work >>after calculating support/cutting support, as whether >>support exists may depend on whether an attack succeeds. Having written a Diplomacy adjudicator, I can say that the action really isn't simultaneous -- you first deal with broken supports, then do dislodged supports (in the special case given above), then resolve attacks. Convoys screw the picture up somewhat, but using this technique everything with the current rules appears resolvable. I've heard of one case of deadlock, but I'm not sure if that's with the current rules or the old rules, and still that's only one case in many many games... ------ Reply from: Mel No. The attack on Sweden fails. This is where you misunderstand the example. You are correct that the attack from Norway cannot cut support to itself. What you miss is that because the unit it is attacking is in support of the attack on itself, the two attack are directly opposing, so the stregth 3 attack *from* sweeden succeeds, and the stength 2 attack *to* sweeden fails. If we delete the english attack the result is the same(the second english attack, that is). The interesting case is when there is no english attack, and the russian attack has one less support. Then the russian attack and English/german attack are both stregth 2 and stand each other off, even though the exact source and target differ. ----- From: Brian Chojnowski chojnows@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu Norway - Sweden works, sweden is dislodged, A support is cut when it is dislodged, so Sweden is unable to support Finland to Norway. Russia therefore is even with the english move on norway for a bounce, and sweden may not retreat there. If Russia was able to guess this strategy, then he could have moved sweden to norway with support from the other 2 pieces and then would have taken norway. Even though it looks like a 3 on 4, the 4 are not working together. Sweden - Norway moves with strength 3 against norway - sweden of strength 2. the English move of strength 2 now faces a defender of strength 3 and will fail. Norway can then only retreat to the skaggarak. ----- From: Danny Loeb Here is what JUDGE has to say: >England: Fleet Norway -> Sweden. > >Germany: Fleet Denmark SUPPORT English Fleet Norway -> Sweden. > >England: Fleet North Sea -> Norway. (*bounce*) >England: Fleet Norwegian Sea, No Order Processed. > >Russia: Army Finland -> Norway. >Russia: Fleet Sweden SUPPORT Army Finland -> Norway. (*dislodged*) >Russia: Fleet St Petersburg (north coast) SUPPORT Army Finland -> Norway. > >The following units were dislodged: > >The Russian Fleet in Sweden can retreat to Finland or Gulf of Bothnia >or Baltic Sea or Skagerrak. **** REC.GAMES.BOARD **** From: Randy Appleton <randy@ms.uky.edu> Just to let you know ... I like that you post your updates to the net in rec.games.board .. ------ From: Rick Westerman <westerm@bchm1.aclcb.purdue.edu> >There has been an objection to this chapter being posted on >REC.GAMES.BOARD. If you have any opinion either way, then please >write.... I think that one posting in rec.games.pbm would be fine. Personally I read both, so the cross-posting doesn't bother me, but it does seem that people who want to do PBM will read the pbm newsgroup. **** FLIST UPDATE **** From: Judge Dash Request <jdr@u.washington.edu> I meant to point out to you that I modified the format of the flist file that is available from the judge. It now has the modification date of each file along with a short comment. **** CHAPTER 2 -> CHAPTER 8 **** From: Daniel Loeb to Eric Klien Instead of COPYING Chapter Two into Chapter Eight. Why don't you just tell subscribers of Chapter Eight that Chapter Two exists and that they can subscribe to that as well. Otherwise, .... (1) almost all of my readers will receive extra copies of the same information, but will lose time determining that the information is in fact -- old stuff, and (2) you are not giving me fair credit for my work of editting Chapter Two. Now, as far as copyrights are concerned... I'm fairly libertarian myself, but I do like to see people give me credit. In summary, do not copy LARGE PARTS of chapter two in eight. When you do copy, please indicate that this is a REPRINT of chapter two. And also indicate how people can subscribe to chapter two... (eg. by subscribing to DIPL-L, contacting me, or reading REC.GAMES.PBM or REC.GAMES.BOARD) ***** PART TWO ***** **** LIST OF GAME OPENINGS **** Moderated Replacement Opening: Croatia - Russia (3/3) Unmoderated games opening include: acre, berkeley, stockhol, tuba, bob Signups available for the following moderated games in formation: infinite, 7senuf, dppc Moderated games in formation are at a low! Please volunteer to be a GM! **** LIST OF EP GAMES ON THE DA **** --- EXPLANATION --- Here is an update on games played on Judge. Each game is represented by a line of data (followed possibly by a line of comments --- please send me comments I can use if you are a GM!). The games are sorted according the the variant rules which are used. The 1st column gives the name of the game including a "#" if the game is a "private" or "unlisted" game. The 2nd column gives its Electronic Protocol number if available. If the game is published in another EP chapter (other than number two), then that is indicated after a slash. The 3rd column gives the name of the GM (see list of GMs below). The other columns give updates on this game in chronological order with the most recent entry on the right. The updates for a game in formation indicate the number of players needed to start. For example, -5. The updates for a game in progress indicate the season (F for Fall or S for Spring), the last 2 digits of the year, and the phase (M for movement, B for builds, and R for retreats). All this is possibly followed by the indication of the number of replacement players (-1), temporary replacements (T1) needed, or needed later on (*1). I'm listing the status of each game not only for this week but for the last several weeks, so that you can see not only where the game is, but how fast it is moving. Please tell me if this extra information is useful to you. --- LIST --- Name EP# GM Oct4 Nov4 Dec5 Jan3 Feb4 Feb19 Feb27 ------- --- -- ----- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----- ----- STANDARD RULES cubit 158 jdr S01M F01M F01B dram 159 jdr S01M S01M F01M evolt jdr -7 S01M S01M fulong jdr S01M S01M gallon jdr -3 S01M hector jdr S01M infinite jdr -5 marengo 129 scottb S03M S05M F06M F07M S09M S10M F10M Ita strong. Ger builds. Fra survives. Eng/Aus weaken. osijek 137 cebulad F02M S04R S05M S06M F06B F07M The Juggernaut has stumbled, what will the FEGI do now?!? paris 134 skiman -4 S02M F03M S04M S05M S06M F06M portnoy 125 koll02 F10M F12M F14M F15M S17M F17M Game is over. 5-way draw. GM disappeared. See below. sparrow 133 casmacin S02R F03B S05R S06M S07M F07R S08M Italy trys to play Kingmaker, England pulls ahead of Turkey. # normandy loeb -2 -3 -3 -3 -3 -1 S01M All press will be written in French. Le jeu sera en francais. croatia 148 nick -2 F02M F02R F03M S04M S04M-1 Germany Reprieved. EFG Alliance. Eng & Tur vs Russia. quebec 154 nick S01M F01B STANDARD GUNBOAT - Identities of players unknown. All messages are public. # khafji 138 skiman S03M F05M-1 F05B F06B F06B-1 S08M Fast pace. No press. Delays over a few hours unacceptable. boadicea 147 pl436000-6 F04M F08M S09M S11M F11M F12M conan pl436000 -5 -2 F02B F03B S04R dppa loeb -6 S01M ddpb loeb S01M dppc loeb -6 Play against a computer opponent (DPP version 1a). No press. Slight delay in starting DPPA, DPPB while a defective standard library routine is being replaced in DIPLOMAT YOUNGSTOWN RULES (10 players) Extended map including Asia and Africa. dien 124 jdr F07B F09M F10B-1 S11M F11M S12M S12R giggles dwiseman S03M F04B S06R S07R F08B F09M F09M Local ERIM game timor nick -10 S01M S01M LOEB9 RULES (9 players) Spain and Scandinavia are added as extra players. eylau 153 loeb -3 S01M F01B-1 S03M F03M S04M F04M Spain stabs England. Austria/Russia at war. GREAT BRITAIN RULES (7 players) Britain starts with 6 SC's but all armies! hastings 139 loeb S01M F01M F03B F04M-1 S05R S06M F06B Russia's only unit is DESTROYED while bouncing Turkish retreat CHAOS RULES (34 players) Regular map. Each SC is owned by a different player. fontenoy 114/4 jdr S05R-6 S06M F07R F08M F09M F09B F10M 7 players left. 21SC B-S-3 alliance builds southern fleet iona jdr -20 -13 S01M F01M F01B Just started. 30 players share 34 supply centers. 1898 RULES (7 players) Regular map. Each player starts with only his capital. bataan 152 dmb -3 F99M F00B F01R F02M F03M CROWDED RULES (11 players) 4 more players added, leaving no neutrals. 7senuf jdr -5 -5 -6 -6 -6 -4 -4 emu mjmcleod S02M-4 S02R-1 F02M-2 F03M F03M S04M MACHIAVELLI RULES - An economic variant of Diplomacy marketed by Avalon Hills vega cebula -7 -5 -4 -3 U54M S55M U55M Pope takes out Florence in 1st move but at what political cost? dagger jdr ??? S56R S57M U57R F57B-1 S58M U58M poverty andre -6 -6 -5 S54M S54M **** FOR MORE INFO **** 1) FOR A PARTICULAR GAME: For more detailed information about game's current status: Send "LIST <name-of-game>" to JUDGE@U.WASHINGTON.EDU For the game's history: Send "SUMMARY <name-of-game>" to the JUDGE For regular game updates: Send "OBSERVE <name-of-game> <password>" to the JUDGE For a copy of the variant rules: Send "GET INFO.<name-of-variant>" or "GET PRESS" or "GET GUNBOAT" For other information (including house rules): Contact the GM. (See list below) 2) FOR THE JUDGE IN GENERAL: For general information about the judge, Send "HELP" to the JUDGE For an update of the list of games given above: Send "LIST" to JUDGE@U.WASHINGTON.EDU For a more detailed list: Send "LIST FULL" to the JUDGE To be informed of all changes in the list of games, Send "OBSERVE CONTROL <password>" to the JUDGE. For a copy of the default house rules: Send "GET EP.HOUSE.RULES" to the JUDGE. For other information: Contact me (loeb@geocub.greco-prog.fr) or Ken (jdr@u.washington.edu) 3) FOR THE ELECTRONIC PROTOCOL IN GENERAL: For general information: Contact the editor Eric Klien (eric_s_klien@cup.portal.com) To solve Email problems, contact one of the email wizards: swb@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu, andre@hern.stonemarche.org eisen@cs.jhu.edu, eisen@jhuvms.bitnet, or wcw27974@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu For back issues: Contact the archivist, jlitvin@swtec1.intel.com/John Litvin **** LIST OF GAME MASTERS **** Brian Bacher bacherb@physics.orst.edu David M Bowen dmb@bigd.cray.com dmb@sequoia.cray.com Dave Cebula cebulad@physics.orst.edu Jamie Dreier pl436000@brownvm.brown.edu, pl436000@brownvm.bitnet Bryant Durrell durrell@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu Nicholas Fitzpatrick nick@sunburn.waterloo.edu Nawwar Kasrawi skiman@leland.stanford.edu Edward J Koll koll02@snybufva.bitnet Koll02@snybscva.bitnet Danny Loeb loeb@nestor.greco-prog.fr Ken Lowe jdr@u.washington.edu ken@milton.u.washington.edu Matt McLeod c9106225@wombat.newcastle.edu.au Michael Luft scottb@cs.utexas.edu Sean MacIntosh casmacin@atlas.cs.upei.ca John Aidan O'Regan J_ORegan%csvax1@iruccvax.UCC.IE Andre Verweij andre@duteina.tudelft.nl andre@hlniob.uucp ***** PART THREE ***** **** PORTNOY END OF GAME REPORT **** by Ken Lowe Game Portnoy has come to a close in a player declared five way draw between Austria, England, Germany, Russia and Turkey (must have been a boring game). The game started with Edward Koll as a moderator (notice that the summary now properly shows "Master" which is what took me so long to get this summary mailed out), but he seems to have disappeared sometime in November. Portnoy was a standard rules game (as far as I know). Summary of game portnoy through S1917M. Master: Edward J Koll KOLL02@snybufva.bitnet Austria: Dave Cebula cebulad@physics.orst.edu England: Steve Benz steveb@cs.utexas.edu France: J.J. Lehett JJL101@PSUVM.PSU.EDU Germany: Kai Hortmann CHBRIN5@DKNKURZ1.BITNET from F1907M: Bret Pettichord bret@ludwig.HQ.Ileaf.COM from F1915B: Bill Kirby wkirby@angelo.Stanford.EDU Italy: John Aidan O'Regan J_ORegan@csvax1.UCC.IE from F1909B: Robert McNeur ROB@CCC.GOVT.NZ Russia: Piotr Prussak pprussak@cs.Buffalo.EDU from S1908M: Martin Snow snow@lyrae.dnet.nasa.gov Turkey: Andre Verweij andre@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl Historical Supply Center Summary -------------------------------- Ven Nap Edi Lvp Par Por Bel Mun Ber Swe Stp Mos Con Smy Rum Ser Vie Year Rom Tun Lon Bre Mar Spa Hol Kie Den Nor War Sev Ank Bul Gre Bud Tri 1900 I I I . E E E F F F . . . . G G G . . . R R R R T T T . . . . A A A 1901 I I I I E E E F G F F F E G G G G G R . R R R R T T T T R A A A A A 1902 I I T I E E E E G F F F E G G G G G R R R R R R T T T T A A A R A A 1903 I I I I E E E E G G E F E G G G G G R R R R R R T T T A T A A A A A 1904 I I I I E E E E E I E E E E G G G G G E R R R R T T T T T A A A A A 1905 I I I I E E E E E I E E E E G G G G G G R R R T T T T T A A A A A A 1906 I I I I E E E E E I E E E E I G G G G G R R R T T T T T A A A A A A 1907 I I I I E E E E E I E E E E I I G E G G R R R T T T T A A A A A A A 1908 I I I I E E E E E E E E E E I E G E G E R R R R T T T A A A A A A A 1909 I I I I E E E E E E E E E E G E E E E E R R R R T T T A A A A A A A 1910 I I I E E E E E E E E E E E I E G E E E R R R R T T T A A A A A A A 1911 I I I E E E E E E E E E E E I E G E E E R R R R T T T A A A A A A I 1912 I I I E E E E E E E E E E E I G G E E E E R R R T T T A A A A A A I 1913 I I I E E E E E E E E E E E G G G E E E E R R R T T T A A A A A A I 1914 I I I E E E E E E E E E E E G G G E R E R R R R T T T A A A A A A I 1915 A A T E E E E E E E E E E E G G G G E E R R R R T T T T A A A A A A 1916 A A T E E E E E E E E E E E G G G G E R R R R R T T T T A T A A A A History of Supply Center Counts ------------------------------- Power 1900 '01 '02 '03 '04 '05 '06 '07 '08 '09 Player Austria 3 5 5 6 5 6 6 7 7 7 Dave Cebula England 3 4 5 6 10* 9 9 10 13 15 Steve Benz France 3 4 3* 1 J.J. Lehett Germany 3 6 6 7 5 6 5 \ Kai Hortmann 3 2 1 Bret Pettichord Italy 3 4 3 4 5 5 6 7 5 4 John Aidan O'Regan Russia 4 6 7 6 4 3 3 3 \ Piotr Prussak 4 4 Martin Snow Turkey 3 4 5 4 5 5 5 4 3 3 Andre Verweij Index: 10 23 25 27 30 30 30 33 38 45 Power 1910 '11 '12 '13 '14 '15 '16 Player Austria 7 6 6 6 6 8 7 Dave Cebula England 15 15 15* 15 13 13 12 Steve Benz Germany 1 1 2 3 3 4 \ Bret Pettichord 4 Bill Kirby Italy 4 5 5* 4 4 Robert McNeur Russia 4 4 3 3 5 4 5 Martin Snow Turkey 3 3 3 3 3 5 6 Andre Verweij Index: 45 44 44 43 37 41 38 * = 1 unused build. Index is the sum of squares of the number of supply centers divided by the number of players. It is a measure of how far the game has progressed. **** EYLAU 1904 REPORT **** ====================================================================== Geneva Sun-Times, October 1904 ====================================================================== Our sporadic publishing schedule continues. FRANCE DESTROYED -- IS ENGLAND NEXT TO FALL? Spain has finally succeeded in eliminating France from the game, albeit with the help of Italy and England. Although there was no real doubt that France was doomed after the first years of the war, Spain is now free to concentrate on the war with England. This will probably mean problems for England in the years ahead, though we would be foolish not to take into account the ease of defending the British Isles. It is never easy to attack England, and although Spain's surprise attack was effective, we feel that it will be much harder to get any further without outside help. The current situation has already yielded excellent tactics on both sides, and promises more of the same. Although the Spanish move to Clyde held off the English in the spring, it's unlikely that Spain will be daring enough to try the same thing again, now that England is warned. Spain may try to take Wales, but to be sure of doing so, she must attack with her fleet to avoid having support broken. Of course, England may not want to take the chance of losing Ireland by attacking from there. In any case, the English fleet in Edinburgh will be on the scene very soon. The situation in the Lowlands is more complex. England seems to have fled the scene with the move to the North Sea, but we find it hard to believe that England is so willing to give up these prime territories. If the fleet in the North Sea continues to move back to England, though, it will be even harder for Spain to hold on to the gains she has. As is always true in military matters, it's a real guessing game. NORWEGIAN/GERMAN ALLIANCE STABLE The situation in Germany is even more complex, due to the presence of four powers fighting over the same ground. The Sun-Times feels that such strife is inevitable with the new recognition of Prussia and Silesia as important areas of Europe. The alliance of Norway and Germany should stay stable for a while, since the two countries need each other to make a stand against the other powers in the region. The apparent truce between that alliance and Austria might prove more shaky. Russia has been reduced greatly in recent years, and Austria has units in the area which are not in a position to attack Russia. They will be forced to either lie fallow or turn on Germany. The current border is certainly defensible, but Germany must secure an alliance with Spain to avoid a flanking attack and destruction. A Spanish attack from Belgium would be devastating. The possibility of Russia joining the Norway-Germany alliance should not be ruled out. Although Norway is finally in a position to take St. Petersburg, attacking from the Gulf of Bothnia with support from Norway, and attacking Livonia to forstall support for St. Petersburg, Norway may decide that Austria is the larger threat, even though she is certainly more distant. However, Norway has little to gain from such an alliance -- it would be defensive only. If Norway doesn't expand into Russia, she has to turn and face England. Germany has far more to gain from such an arrangement. If Russia can concentrate on the war with Austria, then Austria is less likely to be able to press an attack on Germany. Austria may, indeed, be faced with the quartet of Norway, Germany, Russia, and Turkey. On the other hand, as discussed in the next article, even this may not stop her. TURKEY BASTED Turkey finds herself in real trouble this turn. Bulgaria will fall this turn, assuming that the Austria-Italy alliance holds, and there is no reason to believe it will not. Turkey can only try to arrange an alliance with Russia, and attack Rumania from Bulgaria, surrendering Bulgaria to take Rumania. If Austria attempts to both save Rumania and take Bulgaria, the situation becomes less clear. The surest way to provide support for Rumania is with Serbia, but that leaves only three units to attack Bulgaria, and if Sevastopol attacks Rumania, then Turkey can have a sure defense with Rumania and the fleet in the Black Sea alone. It's another guessing game. Of course, these moves are just delaying tactics. If Austria gets into Bulgaria, even if she loses Rumania, Constantinople will fall next. With Italian troops in Turkey itself, Turkey is in serious trouble. Her failure to maintain a presence on the sea has made it possible for Italy and Austria to open another front in the war, and Turkey can't fight both fronts at once. Up