Re: DM: Wall of Steel designs

From: ccs012@george.ucdavis.edu (Riff-Raff)

Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1992 00:59:54 +0000

In article <2378.9203201434@spirit.mcs.dund.ac.uk> mward@maths-and-cs.dundee.ac.uk (Martin Ward) writes:
>Some discussion on Wall of Steels, if you guys like to use them and care to
>comment.

I love to use wastes!  One of my characters in White Lion, a Waste whose
up and down in the Grand Challenger Champs in Free Blades, with a record
of 30-16-0 and minimal tourney experience (only about 35 tourney fights).

My working minimums for Wall of Steels are WT 17 WL 17 DF 13, with a lot
of leeway if the other stats are good enough.  I've had good success with
WT 17 WL 17 DF 11, WT 15 WL 17 DF 15, and WT 13 WL 21 DF 13.  If the damage
ability is low, they make better TPs, but if they can hit with any power
the Waste is the way to go.

>Let's look at my two new designs in Trocar.
>
>#1   13-12-11-17-15-5-11
>
>	-very intelligent
>		-uses an unusual fighting style, deadly to slower, less
>			active foes
>		-seldom hesitates, moves instantly if given the opportunity
>		-has learned the finer points of parrying
>		-avoids blows well
>		-conserves his endurance well
>	-active fighter
>	-clumsy
>	-very quick on his feet
>		-often avoiding seemingly hopeless situations
>	-does good damage

Looks like a very lucky roll-up to me.  5 Wit Comments, and active and
very quick, with a dodge comment.  The only thing lacking is damage, and good
seems to be plenty for Wastes in general.  My main concern with this guy
would be his low endurance.  Normal is practically poor for Wastes, who
suck it up like you wouldn't believe.  I'd go ARM/H and 2-2-2-Parry or
2-4-2-Parry, followed by moderate rounds of 5-4-5-None and maybe even a
7-4-4-None until he either go Expert Attack, or discovered his favorite
weapon.  He will probably win a lot against the finesse styles, and other
wastes, but will have problems against pure offensives and total parries.

>#2   9-12-20-13-15-4-11
>
>	-bright
>		-has learned how to be a decisive and quick fighter
>		-makes clever attacks
>	-clumsy
>	-can take a lot of damage
>	-cannot carry a lot of weight
>	-does tremendous damage

A wall of steel, huh?  Hmm...  Doing tremendous damage is a definite
boon, but wastes are notorious for poor decis and even poor riposte.  His
dodge (which Wastes aren't known for until 10-15 fights experience) is
really going to suffer due to his SP.  I would have made this guy either
an offensive style like a lunger, or a total parry.

He looks to me like a sponge who waits until his opponent gets tired then
hits him once or twice for the win.  I would send him in ASM/H with a
SC/ME combination and challenge offensives and total parries.  Against
offensives I would parry for the first two minutes, then unleash a 10-6-6
round in the third, with about a 10-4-8 round in desperation.  Against TPs,
I would have to overpower them, so come out early with the heavy duty
rounds, tapering off to 5-4-5, 4-3-4, 3-2-3 in the later rounds, waiting
for your opponent to bleed to death.

>My brother and I were into designing some WSTs and we wanted to try the big
>guys.  We had this ideal design made up in our heads and then my brother
>actually designed it.  He is 9-9-16-17-17-5-11.  The guy has the same first
>four wit comments as #1, is active, very quick on his feet (often avoiding
>hopeless situations), and does great (maybe tremendous) damage.
>As you can see, the SZ 16, and the whole concept of large WSTs comes from
>the large-sized mutant Strikers article from Doc LeGrand.

I've given up on making the big guys into finesse warriors, so I'm especially
interested in hearing how this guy does.  Keep me posted, huh?

>So, what do you guys think?  Let's take a look at why we designed this
>particular WST.

>ST 9 - can use SC or WF.  Yes, the QS and BS are better, so we may make the
>	Strength more.  I show how in a minute.

The SC is a fine weapon, but the WF sucks ****.  I'd say that the 9 ST is
good because it is a breakpoint, and probably gives a bonus parry skill or
two, but the 11 ST gives additional weapons *and* normal carry, which this
guy can use to better effect than other warriors.

Better carry means not only that he can carry more armor, and thus takes
(even more) damage to take down, but also that his encumbrance cost will
be lower if he wears lighter armor.  If you're think APL/H, then I'd say
that the 11 ST is a necessity in order to help his Init, Parry, and Dodge.

>CN 9 - got to have some Con.  9 is a breakpoint and trainable to 11 or 12.

There are no breakpoints for CN.  It doesn't give any skills, so it can't
actually have breaks like other skills do, except...

The way I understand hit points are calculated in the following manner:

Base CN 12 +1 for every odd point over/-1 for every odd point under
Base SZ 12 +1 for every odd point over/-1 for every odd point under

Unfortunately, I can't find the chart right now, but it looks like you
could save yourself a point by giving ST 15, instead of 16.  Of course,
you can't control SZ, so it's not much of an argument. :)

>SZ 16 - minimum for us and the Striker designs.  Maybe go with 14 or 15.

The idea here is interesting, but I still thank that you're trying to make
a slasher/basher who can parry, and you're losing too much offense.  If
it works, you're a genius.

>WT 17 - Yeah, gives all those Wit comments.  Okay, can make the Wit 13 or 15
>	and put the points into ST, to make it 11 or 13.  Or make CN an 11.

Never compromise WT.

>WL 17 - minimum.  Probably adds to the Wit comments.

You dont' have a lot of points left to increase this from 17.  The only
time I would think that you could increase WL would  be if you got
WT 7 WL 15 on the roll-up.

>SP 5 - breakpoint.  Does it make a WST an active fighter always? Has in both
>	our cases.  I suppose 3 or 4 is acceptable.

My 3 SP Waste in Free Blades is Active, and Very Quick on his feet.  My
7 SP Waste in Home Guard is "normal" (no comment) and Quick on his feet.
I think that, in general, Wastes are active and quick.  It's just part of
their flair. :)

>DF 11 - The fucking minimum, man!  Use SC and QS.

Actually, there are quite a few ST 11 DF 7 Wastes who have done quite well.
If the Broadsword turns out to be your favorite, you have a WT 17 WL 21,
and you get lucky on your parry bonus, then you're set.  Otherwise, I'd
agree with you.

>I would expect you would agree the design is good - both Wit and Will are 17
>and the Deftness is 11.  I would like to try a WST with more Deftness, like
>a 15!  Maybe one of you would say the same.

Definitely!  And a SZ 3!  My dream roll-up is still 13-12-3-17-17-5-17.
How's that for awesome?  Survivable, small, high initial skill base, and
3 25's easily in range when he maxes out on skills.

But I digress...

Trump

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References

DM: Wall of Steel designs
mward@maths-and-cs.dundee.ac.uk (Martin Ward)
Fri, 20 Mar 1992 14:34:31 +0000