Re: AB Article in rec.games.pbm

From: 900667c@ace.acadiau.ca (Gerald Cameron)

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1992 16:22:15 +0000

In article <9203181838.AA06116@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu> dfcleary@UCDAVIS.EDU (Riff-Raff) writes:

>Folks,

>     I don't have direct access to USENET, but this was sent to me for comments
>and it looks like a lot of fun, so here goes:
>(I have no idea how to "properly" reply other than to just comment as I go)

IMHO, you did a fine job.

>>Hi everyone.  This time, instead of lecturing, I'm asking.  I have a few
>>ideas on how Aimed Blows should be designed and run, but I don't really know
>>if I'm on the right track or not.  So, I decided to post my thoughts on the
>>subject, and see what all you on the net think.

>>First, stats:

>>ST: 5-13      5 is kind of risky.  I'd say 7 is the minimum I'd
>>              recommend, since it gets you EP, the minimum I'd
>>              recommend for scum hunting.  11 is really nice if
>>              you can get it.

>--->  I agree with the five minimum, but I would not put any maximum
>--->  on the strength.   Obviously, there is no need to add to someone starting
>--->  with a high strength, but there's no need to exclude the AB style either.
>--->  Two of the better AB's I've seen started with 21 and 19 ST.  The biggest
>--->  thing to keep in mind is this is the third most important stat for an
>--->  AB, behind deftness and wit.

I suppose that your arguement on not excluding AB just because of high ST is
true, but I argue with your order of importance of stats.  I'll summarize
in a bit.

>>CN: ?         Really, this depends on how survivable you
>>		think these guys are.  Theoretically, lower is better,
>>		but this style has the highest death rate in the
>>		game, probably.  I personally like 7-13, depending on SZ.

>--->  As with any offensive style, take what you are given and _don't_ add
>--->  to it.

I agree, but what I'm saying (although not explicitly) is that if you get a
roll-up that's good, but has a 3 CN, look elsewhere stylewise (maybe PL).  I
happen to know a couple very good managers who agree with this, since they'
re the ones who pointed it out to me one time when I was going to make an AB
with a 4 CN.  In essence I'm saying that having the best character in the
world isn't worth a hill of beans if he's going to die the first time he
loses.

>>SZ: ?         Again, this is open ended.  I actually have a semi-
>>              practical SZ 17 AB design that is due to debut in a
>>              couple weeks.  In general, though, I think SZ 12 is
>>              a max.

>--->  I disagree.  The only thing a high size does is detract from the
>--->  amount of points you have to spend on the "real" stats.  If the high
>--->  SZ is balanced by a low con and speed, (leaving the prime stats in a
>--->  reasonable range), then it makes no difference.  An AB of mine, size
>--->  14, died at 14-6, and another is now at 11-8-2, having lost the last
>--->  to superior (quicker) opponents.  As long as the high size isn't the
>--->  result of lost WT, DF, ST, or WL there is nothing lost.

Ummm, isn't that sort of what I just said?  The last sentence is a rule of
thumb, not something I meant to be carved in stone (is anything in this
game :).

>>WL:13+          I actually go lower than this in practice, but I
>>                don't hold out much hope for survival due to poor WL
>>                checks.  It's also nice to have the Att, Def, and
>>                Par that this gives you.

>--->  NOT.  Will can safely be anywhere between 7-13 with no need to go
>--->  above 13 unless you started with it.  I don't suggest a 7 if you can
>--->  at all help it, but I think you can enjoy success with as low as a 7
>--->  will.  The 8-1 guy (above) had a 7 will.  Anything over 13 is completely
>--->  wasted.  The points will net you more skills on wit or DF, and the AB
>--->  conserves endurance better than anyone else.  Training is the biggest
>--->  concern, but if you start with a 9+, I don't consider it too much of
>--->  a handicap.  Obviously, if you can safely get to 13 without hurting WT,
>--->  DF, or ST, go for it.

Hokay, this is the main reason that I'm writing this.  I know you didn't see
it, but I recently wrote a piece that, among other things, mentioned that WL
plays a part in how easily your character gives up and is killed.
Essentially, the higher your WL, the less likely your character is to die
from X amount of damage.  The fact that your warrior died the second time he
lost was probably due to his 7 WL.  Had his WL been 15 or so, he'd probably
still be with you (of course, you never know for certain, but hey).

I will concede that this theory IS hard to prove conclusively, but I think
that if you look at your record you'll find that high WL guys survive
beatings that the low WL guys don't.

If it wasn't for that fact, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly.

>>SP: 5-13             5 is the min, but I'd rarely go much higher than 9.
>>                     After SZ, I'd say that this is the lowest priority
>>                     stat.  I does sort of affect your defensive strategy
>>                     of choice, though (high SP = dodge, low = parry).

>--->  I agree here.  Higher than 13 means you are passing up a great PR
>--->  for an AB who didn't need the speed.  I dunno about the parry tactic,
>--->  unless your particular AB likes the QS.  I'd say dodge in any other case.

I'd have to say that the parry dodge thing is personal preference.  Still,
if your AB has a 5 SP, he won't dodge as well as one with a 9 SP, but his
parry isn't really affected, meaning that it is likely to be more reliable.
I suppose the safest thing to say is that it's a judgement call here.

[strategy]

>>Vs. Offensive, SP <= 9        Vs. Offensive, SP > 9

>>2  10  8  5  5  5     1        1  10  8  5  5  5    2
>>6   6  6  2  2  2    10       10   6  6  2  2  2    6
>>2   6  6  5  5  5     1        1   6  6  5  5  5    2

>>RL-------------------->       RL-------------------->
>>BD-------------------->       BD-------------------->

>>x   ?  ?  x----------->        x   ?  ?  x---------->
>>P   x----------->     D        D   x----------->    P

>>Vs. Defensive

>>10  8  5  5  5  5     2
>> 6  6  2  2  2  2     4
>> 6  6  5  5  5  5     2

>>RL or HE-------------->
>>BD-------------------->

>> ?  ?  x-------------->
>> x-------------->     P

>>?= B, L, S, or x

>Here is my preferred strategy.  This is a matchup strategy, which you would
>customize for sure challenges depending on the opponent's offensive or
>defensive nature.
>                     (6)  (D)
>10      8  6  ---->   3    2
>10      2  2  ---->   3    9
>6       8  6  ---->   3    1
>HE  ------------------------>
>AM  -----------------------BD

>L (x)   x  ------------------>
>x   ------------------------D

>Against defensives, you would make the first 2 minutes 8-2-8, or just the
>first, and go with 6-2-6.  Use the regular matchup strategy against offensives.
>You will get the jump on a number of offensives.  Trust me.  Even if you don't,
>your AB will often dodge quite well in the 1st minute, despite going 10-10-6.
>You dodge in desperation (unless using the QS).  If you don't get the jump
>and end up going desperate, you will stand a better chance making it to swing
>again, then if you started out dodging in the first minute.  When you come
>out of desperation, you will be running 10-10-6 and will probably start
>pounding the offensive since he has worn himself out getting you desperate.
>The one problem with this approach is getting knocked out by the same swing
>that got you desperate.  You have less chance of that, however, than of
>being taken out by blows while your trying to dodge the entire first minute.

Man, I feel like writing volumes about this.  In fact, I think I will in
another post that I'll write (and mail to Vlad) after I take care of some
other business.

>Well, that's my $.02 worth.  Hope it helps.

Yep, it did.  Just what the doctor ordered.

>Vlad, who doesn't have a damn "header" to put at the end of his files, but runs
>House Jhereg (35, 103)  Almost Exactly (29, 103)  and occasionally:

Hey, try making one up.  It's fun :D

>Take The Fifth (13, 103)
>Lyric Legends  (30)
>The Long Run   (57)
>Doli Capax     (27)
______________________________________________________________________
| Take 'Er Easy                            |          DEMON          |
|                                          |                         |
| The check is in the mail,                |     GERALD CAMERON      |
|   I'll respect you in the morning,       |                         |
|      Mob Boss knows everything about DM. | 900667C@ACE.ACADIAU.CA  |
|====================================================================|
|    Manager of Scotian D-Team (DM52), The Highlanders (DM42)        |
|                and The Highlanders of the WeHL                     |
|   Also collector of comics, player of RPGs, Business Student       |
|                       (blah, blah, blah)                           |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

References

AB Article in rec.games.pbm
dfcleary@UCDAVIS.EDU (Riff-Raff)
Wed, 18 Mar 1992 18:38:15 +0000