Re: Duelmasters - Ok, what would you do with this?

From: hlavaty@aerospace.aero.org (Grisel Gonzalez)

Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1992 21:17:43 +0000

In article <1992Jun10.060120.5899@cco.caltech.edu>, johnjohn@cco.caltech.edu (John White) writes:
>
> Oh, I wasn't going to mention this before, but what the heck.  Here's a
> rollup that I got in an undisclosed arena.  What would you do with it?
>
> 9-6-5-13-15-7-15
>
> And as Tom Kiefer said, I would appreciate it if people would refrain from
> telling me to DA it.  I have my heart set on running this guy.
> :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)(-:(-:(-:(-:(-:(-:(-:(-:(-:(-:(-:

Who in their right mind would DA this rollup?!?! It's awesome and I'm extremely
jealous!

> Here's what I thought:
>
> 11-6-5-17-21-7-17
>
> The stats seem to rule out the basher and striker, but everything else seems
> to be open season.  My immediate impression is lunger, due to high will, and
> decent wit and deftness, but I'll go through the process.

According to my charts, this guy will have the following bases from stats alone:

85% attack
80% defense
75% riposte
55% parry
40% init
35% dec

> A lunger might have:
>
> Attack: 19
> Init:   14
> Decise: 10
> Parry:  9
> Defense:13
> Riposte:10
>
> This is conservative, however.  He *could* be higher.  Imagine an AdEx and
> two experts...

Lunger mean min max most
att    105  95  120 100
par    45   35  55  50
def    90   75  105 85
rip    80   70  100 80
init   70   50  85  70
dec    50   40  70  45

Well, if you stick with what is most commonly found, it looks like this guy
will start with two experts and one adex. Not too shabby... ;) If you're a
pessimist by nature, then he will only start with one expert but will still be
able to reach three adex's. Not bad for a worse case scenario...

> A slasher:
> Attack: 17
> Init:   14
> Decise: 14
> Parry:  ?
> Defense:14
> Riposte:16
>
> Whoa, nelly!  I didn't think about this until I looked at the charts that I
> have.  Is this possible?  Dennis, can you confirm what I just did?  *FIVE*
> AdMasters?!

Slasher mean min max most
att     90   90  95  90
par     25   15  30  30
def     75   70  85  85
rip     85   70  95  95
init    75   55  85  70
dec     50   50  50  50

According to my charts, it still looks like the lunger is slightly better.

> Who knows what an aimed blow would look like!

I don't have as much info on an AB but here's what I have:

AB      mean min max most
att     90   70  100 85
par     50   50  60  50
def     85   75  100 75
rip     55   50  60  55
init    ??
dec     55   55  55  55

YUK!!

> A Parry-lunger:
>
> Attack: 16
> Init:   10
> Decise: ?
> Parry:  13
> Defense:13
> Riposte:10
>
> How... unspectacular.  My immediate thoughts are: Lungers look much better
> than PL's.  Neither looks as good as a Slasher, besides that lungers' better
> attack.

PL      mean min max most
att     95   90  110 95
par     55   40  70  60
def     75   60  85  80
rip     75   70  75  70
init    50   30  65  55
dec     45   45  45  45

This looks worse than the SL but at least it's better than the AB! The LU is
still the best IMHO.

> A Parry-Strike:
>
> Attack: ?
> Init:   ?
> Decise: 10
> Parry:  11
> Defense:?
> Riposte:10
>
> I don't know, but I don't like what I see.

PS      mean min max most
att     85   70  100 75
par     55   40  60  55
def     80   60  105 80
rip     80   70  85  75
init    45   30  60  40
dec     50   40  65  45

This is worse than the PL! I can't imagine why anyone would design a PS! ;)

> A Parry-Riposte:
>
> Attack: 14
> Init:   13
> Decise: ?
> Parry:  10
> Defense:?
> Riposte:13
>
> Another unspectacular design...

PR      mean min max most
att     75   65  85  70
par     60   35  75  65
def     65   50  90  65
rip     100  90  115 95
init    50   35  65  60
dec     45   35  35  40

This actually turned out better than I thought it would but it's still pretty
poor compared to the others.

> A Waste (even though the con is a bit low):
>
> Attack: 16
> Init:   14
> Decise: 8
> Parry:  12
> Defense:10
> Riposte:8
>
> You can see that the Waste's strength is in attack, init, and parry.
> However, the skills to be had by the slasher or even the lunger, seem to be
> much better...

Waste   mean min max most
att     95   90  110 90
par     65   55  85  60
def     75   70  80  70
rip     75   75  80  80
init    70   65  75  70
dec     45   45  45  45

Hmmm. This is definitely worth considering. True, you'll have to spend several
turns training STR and CON but it shouldn't take you too long to get those
trains with a 21 WILL. True, the lunger still looks slightly better but
*everyone* runs lungers! Why don't you try something a little different? ;)

If you compare the minimum numbers for the SL and waste, the waste comes out
on top but if you compare the most common bonues, the SL looks better in the
defense & riposte areas (15% better in each) but at the cost of 30% less parry.
Decise and attack are comparable.

If it were up to me, I'ld either choose the LU or waste. The LU is better than
the Slaser and the waste is somewhat comparable to the SL anyway. If you want
to make this warrior "the best that it can be" then choose the lunger. If you
think that a waste would be a better complement to the team and/or do better
against the current mix of warriors in the arena, than choose the waste. I
can't see you losing either way with this rollup!

> So it comes down to the lunger and slasher.
>
> My questions:
> Do you come to a different conclusion, and if so, what?

Yep and I think I already went through that. :)

> Do Slashers really have a better init, riposte, and decise than a lunger?

I don't know since my slashers always die before the get to the adepts but it
seems like in this particular case that statement is true.

> Which would you choose, the chance at a starting AdEx Attack, or the chance
> at four AdMasters on skills?

My stuff came out different than yours did so I'm not really faced with this
decision. My info allows the chance at a starting adex *and* the chance at four
adv masters! :) But if I did have to choose a style on the basis of your info
then I would take the chance at four adv masters.

> My feeling is that the lunger would do better, overall, despite the
> startling difference in skills bases that my charts indicate (I feel like a
> fortune teller).  They tend to run faster, get the jump more often, have a
> higher attack, and do better in general.   But those skills...
>
> What do you all think?  And don't hate me...

Too late. I do hate you! I finally get a good rollup and you have to show off
a better one! :)

Grisel

References

Duelmasters - Ok, what would you do with this?
johnjohn@cco.caltech.edu (John White)
Wed, 10 Jun 1992 06:01:20 +0000