Re: Legends: Training types request

From: griffith@xcf.Berkeley.EDU (Jim "The Big Dweeb" Griffith)

Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1993 00:38:12 +0000

In article <1993Apr5.223145.28929@ifi.unizh.ch> aiko@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (aiko gieskens) writes:
>Hiya folks,
>
>After having an interesting conversation, I got the idea to sort of
>collectively pool experiences about training types here, especially
>custom ones (things like costs etc.), this can save a lot of people from
>reinventing the wheel I think.

Sure thing.  I've dabbled with training types in RTI10 and RTI5, and here's
what I've found.

There are two types of attributes you can change - "base" attributes, or
attributes which have multipliers applied to them, and "absolute" attributes,
or attributes which are used as absolute, unmodified valies.  Generally
speaking, the base attributes are worth raising and the absolute attributes
shouldn't be bothered with.  Here's a brief list of values you can raise and
my opinion on them:

CF: this is a "double base" attribute, because DF and AF are applied to them,
    and then tactics bonuses are applied.  This should be raised.  Try to buy
    10 or more of this.  In fact, I'm probably not emphasizing this enough.
    CF is used to determine *everything* in combat.  As high as possible.
DF: this is a base attribute (tactics multiplier), but it's expensive.  Buy
    1-3 of this, especially if you can combine this with a status that gives
    INV.
AF: This is a biggie.  With large numbers of troops, you can use a training
    type in place of weapons, so you can have really cool troops unequipped.
    Buy lots (50% or more)
Charge bonus: Buy it if you expect to be able to make battles end quickly.
Rout bonus: Nah.
INV/DAM: not allowed (damn)
MR: this is worthless.  This is an "absolute" attribute.  The problem is that
    it is only effective against the weakest battle spells - the damage
    afflicting spells.  If you buy +2MR, then instead of 6 troops killed,
    you'll have maybe 3 killed.  Big whoop.  The nasty spells (AF modifiers)
    ignore MR.  Don't buy MR.
SAR: this is more valuable, since especially with non-NIC games, you can
     get lots of netherworld or undead troops and therefore large special
     attacks.  I like to have +2 or +3.  Note comments on anti-covert troops
     below.
Sighting: I always increase my sighting value.  Generally speaking, surprise
	  isn't going to come into play if you're fielding an army of 2000
	  troops.  So you can reduce your training cost for free by saying
	  that they're more visible.
Carrying capacity: I really like increasing this.  Why?  So I can equip troops
		   with plate armor, a shield, and a weapon without slowing
		   movement.  I try to buy +5, so that my humans can carry
		   what they want.  Not important for the small or large
		   races, because the smaller races have the same strength but
		   their equipment is lighter, and the larger races are really
		   strong.
Special attack: I like this too.  +10 is nice, but expensive.
Religious sanctuary: Don't bother.  Most of the time, your troops won't be in
		     one.
Guard rating: Buy some.  It's cheap, especially if one of your skill
	      requirements is knight or spy.
Forage rating: Don't starve your troops and all will be well.
Terrain modifiers: Apply -50% to all mountain regions, sea, swamp, and heavy
		   forest and add +50% to grassland.  If you plan on
		   defending, add 50% to "defending walls" and "in city".
		   Otherwise, add 50% to "attacking walls".
Missile bonus: only if you're pretty sure that it will be used.
Weapon bonus: bonuses for swords are good.
Movement bonus: This could really be nice, I suppose.  I've never used it.

Having said that, there are basically three kinds of troop types that you will
want to design - offensive, defensive, and anti-covert.  Here are what I keep
in mind for these types.

Offensive: give CF, DF, SA, SAR, AF, and charge AF.  Give terrain modifiers.
	   Raise sighting value.
Defensive: same as offensive, more SA, emphasize bows.  Try to kill as many
	   troops in SA and missile rounds as possible.  Don't bother with
	   carrying capacity, because your troops won't be moving.
Anti-covert: high guard rating (50-75), no SAR, bow bonus.  These troops are
	     going to be in rear slots protecting your characters.  Design
	     them with this in mind (bow bonus to counter rear-slot missile
	     penalty, no SAR or MAR needed, light armor means no carrying
	     capacity bonus needed)

Finally, a comment on training restrictions.  It is better to choose
restrictions which can easily be met by lots of characters than it is to
reduce the cost of the training and make it more powerful.  If you can train
with three characters, then it's less important that the status is 20%
weaker.  Don't choose a high-level status as a restriction, and choose skill
restrictions that are common in your characters.  I learned this the hard
way, when I designed a training type with "Spirit of Vol" as a restriction.
Oh sure, the type is nasty, but I can only train 90 of them a turn.  Bleah.

Here are some sample training types:

Name: Guardians of the Eye
     Requirements: Assassin, Seer
     Purpose: anti-covert
     CF Add: 10
     DF Add: 2
     AF Bonus: 75%
     Missile AF Bonus: 50%
     AF Charge Bonus: 0%
     AF Route Bonus: -50%
     Sight modifier: +1
     Terrain modifiers:
             Forest:                 -25
             Forest Mountains:       -50
             Heavy Forest:           -50
             Defending walls:        +50
             Attacking walls:        +50
             City:                   +50
             Moors:                  -50
             Swamp:                  -25
             Desert:                 -50
             Sea:                    -50
             Barren Mountains:       -50
     Guard Rating: 65
     Cost: 297
     (Note - I think this is a good training type)

Name: Avengers of Vol
     Requirements: Knight, Wizard, Spirit of Vol or higher
     Purpose: offensive
     CF Add: 12
     DF Add: 3
     AF Bonus: 60%
     AF Charge Bonus: 20%
     AF Route Bonus: 0%
     SAR bonus: +3
     MAR bonus: +3
     Sighting modifier: +0.5
     Special Attack: 10
     Carrying capacity: +5 to carrying capacity
     Overall bonus in religious sanctuary: 20%
     Guard Rating: 5
     Cost: 300 crowns
     (I added a sanctuary bonus to justify the religious status)
     (Note - this is a tough, but generally useless training type because of
	     the restrictions).

Name: Dark Avengers
     Trainer Requirements: Assassin, Knight
     Purpose: offensive
     CF Add: 12
     DF Add: 4
     AF Bonus: 100%
     AF Charge Bonus: 20%
     AF Route Bonus: 0%
     SAR bonus: +4
     MAR bonus: +1
     Sighting modifier: +0.5
     Special Attack: 10
     Carrying capacity: +5 to carrying capacity
     Terrain modifiers:
             Attacking walls:        +50
             Defending walls:        -50
             Moors terrain:          -50
             Swamp terrain:          -50
             Desert terrain:         -50
             Sea terrain:            -50
             City terrain:           -50
     Cost: 300 crowns
     (Note - I think this is a good training type)

Name: Guardians of the Eye
     Requirements: Assassin, Seer
     Purpose: anti-covert
     CF Add: 10
     DF Add: 2
     AF Bonus: 75%
     AF Charge Bonus: 0%
     AF Route Bonus: 0%
     SAR bonus: +4
     MAR bonus: +1
     Sight modifier: +1
     Strength modifier: +5
     Terrain modifiers:
                Forest:                 -25
                Forest Mountains:       -25
                Heavy Forest:           -50
                Defending walls:        +50
                City:                   +50
                Moors:                  -50
                Swamp:                  -50
                Desert:                 -50
                Sea:                    -50
                Barren Mountains:       -50
     Guard Rating: 53
     Cost: ~287 crowns
     (Note - this would be better with better terrain modifiers and no MR/SAR
	     bonuses.  And a missile bonus.  And no strength bonus)

Jim

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Griffith  /--OO--\     | Two great powers are on our side: the power of
 ...!ucbvax!scam!griffith  | Love and the power of Arithmetic.  These two are
BEWARE BATS WITHOUT NOSES! | stronger than anything else in the world.

References

Legends: Training types request
aiko@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (aiko gieskens)
Mon, 05 Apr 1993 22:31:45 +0000

Referenced By

Legends: Training types request
aiko@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (aiko gieskens)
Mon, 05 Apr 1993 22:31:45 +0000