Re: PBM design and formulae - a summary

From: desj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins)

Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1993 21:24:09 +0000

Graham Matthews <gym@dcs.ed.ac.uk> writes:
>> But the point in either case is that what I enjoy doing is finding good
>> strategies.  And that process is simply more enjoyable, for me, when
>> conducted with the knowledge of the formulas which comprise the game
>> system.
>
> My personal opinion is that if a player needs to "know the formulas"
> to play well then one of two things is happening :-
>
> a) he/she is a bad player
> b) the formulas are bad.

This is entirely subjective.  It depends on what you mean by "play
well."  I can play very well without knowing any formulas.  I can play
much better still once I do know them.  Many people in this discussion
have said that they hope by hiding the formulas, to make it more
difficult for competitive players like me to find good strategies.  So
clearly I am not the only one who thinks that knowledge of the formulas
can give a significant advantage.  [I just disagree with those who think
that hiding formulas will improve the balance.]

If you don't think that knowing the formulas helps one to play well,
then you must surely be in favor of publishing them all.  Because it
doesn't hurt anyone, and the players who enjoy playing with that
knowledge can do so.

>> (Further, if you make the formula increasingly complicated, it is
>> increasingly likely that I will be able to discover "bugs" in the
>> formula---ways in which its behavior is counterintuitive, and which I
>> can use to my advantage.  I don't want the formula to have those, but if
>> they do exist I generally do feel it necessary to use them.)

> Arghh - this may sound old-fashioned but personally I prefer to
> play to the "intent" of the rule/formula and not exploit the little
> bugs. Moreover, why is it "necessary to use them [these little
> bugs in the formulae]"? Is it to win?

I guess I prefer that too.  I would strongly prefer that the "bugs" not
exist.  Nevertheless, if I am engaged in a serious competition against
another player, where we are both playing very hard to win, and both of
us know about "bugs" in the rules, it is going to be very difficult for
us to resist taking advantage of the things that we know about.  And
once we start doing so, we might both gain a big advantage over other
players who are not so analytical.

Also, there is not an obvious line between "bugs" and "features."  One
might well learn from the formulas that certain plausible-looking
strategies are in fact always inferior.  Example: building [1 1 1 1 0]
ships in Galaxy.  I don't see how it can be unsportsmanlike to use that
knowledge not to build such ships, even though it gives me a big
advantage over players who haven't figured it out.  Such inequities of
knowledge are much more likely when the formulas are hidden.  At least
with the public Galaxy formulas, several different people have
discovered and announced the fact that ships like the one above are
stupid.  Thus other players are a lot more likely to find that out than
if the formulas themselves are only known to relatively few, and
especially than if "discovering" the formulas is considered to be part
of the game process, so that players who do discover them are not
inclined to share them.

Sometimes I do find things that I would describe as true bugs, for
example certain problems with the Intercept command in Galaxy.  I
generally don't take advantage of those.  But there are players who do,
and if I were competing against one then I probably would.

David desJardins

References

Re: PBM design and formulae - a summary
desj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins)
Mon, 28 Jun 1993 20:30:42 +0000
Re: PBM design and formulae - a summary
gym@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Graham Matthews)
Tue, 29 Jun 1993 11:55:07 +0000
PBM design and formulae - a summary
rob@ccc.govt.nz (Rob McNeur)
Mon, 28 Jun 1993 09:53:02 +0000

Referenced By

Re: PBM design and formulae - a summary
desj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins)
Mon, 28 Jun 1993 20:30:42 +0000
Re: PBM design and formulae - a summary
gym@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Graham Matthews)
Tue, 29 Jun 1993 11:55:07 +0000
PBM design and formulae - a summary
rob@ccc.govt.nz (Rob McNeur)
Mon, 28 Jun 1993 09:53:02 +0000