Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start

From: arc@leland.Stanford.EDU (Andrew Richard Conway)

Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1993 17:24:50 +0000

Time for my two cents worth on this topic:

(1) Which do I prefer in practice:

Well, I've played galactic bloodshed and gone through and read the
(large) source [ as graham will know - PS. have you played any GB
recently? ]. I used my own souped up client and p[repared lots of script
attacks. This is definitely a case of "knowing the formulae".
I enjoyed this.

I've played Galaxy without the source and before the combat %ge were published,
but with strengths and the limits for hitting and missing published.
I enjoyed this, and when the source became available, I didn't ask for it.
This is a "middle" of the road area.

I've played GB before reading the source (and relying on the
documentation which contains completely wrong formulae). And
enjoyed it. This is a "no formulae" approach.

I've played a game of D&D where our party started off broke, weaponless,
black farmers in a land where blacks were lower class and we were
farmers whose(already precarious) livelihood was destroyed by a
dam that stopped water getting to our farmland. The campaign lasted
several months --- I don't think we ever "attacked a monster".
I enjoyed this immensely. This was definitely a case of "no formulae".

Basically, what I'm saying is that I enjoyed all varieties, and I've
played good games and bad games of both types. There are some sorts of
games that are suitable for having formulae known, and others not.
If you want a game where you can have mathematica chug for a few hours
and come up with your next move, then good. Play it, and odds are
most of the other contestants willbe like minded, and you will
have a "strateghy program" contest. Play a game without formulae
and it will be people against people.

(2) What about statistics?

Graham claims that statistics can be used to find out formulae in
many games. I agree. Though there are some games for which
it is too complicated or not of much use. This depends very much
on the game. If the formulae can be found out reasonably well through
statistics, then I think they should be released.

(3) What about "experience".

I don't expect to go well in a game when I play it for the first time
against experienced players. Fact of life. But the second time, I
will be an experience player, and the game will be more fair.
This applies to both games with and without formulae.
I agree with David that the first time is not particularly fun,
but I don't generally consider it a problem because most games
are relatively easy to become an "expert" in.

NB: I don't really like games like chess where many people spend
SO LONG becoming experst that it is impossible to become an
expert in a reasonable amount of time. I do enjoy playing chess against
people who don't take chess seriously.

(4) What about bugs

There are some things that are obviously bugs. Such as methods of
getting infinite wealth through integer overflow. Or having planets
with identical names one of which cannot be fired upon. These exist
and should be alerted whenecver discovered. [NB: I have played Galactic
Bloodshed with Graham a few times, and we came accross lots of bugs, which
we both didn't use. But how about things that are in the rules,
perfectly fair, but rather play unbalancing? Such as in one of the
games I spent about 20 turns plotting how to capture a Godship,
a practically indestructable weapon used basically as a tool by
the game moderator, and never intended to fall into player hands?
Or how about if you use publically available information that can
be used to determine private (and jealously kept) information in
a manner also not intended? When Graham told everyone how he
determined everyone's home planet at the start of the game without exploration,
I was impressed, and was angry at myself for not thinking of it.
But future versions of the game had that public information suppressed.]

Andrew Conway.

--
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Andrew Conway    arc@leland.stanford.edu  Phone: USA 415 497 1094

References

Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start
srt@aero.org (Scott 'Dr. Pain' Turner)
Fri, 02 Jul 1993 16:38:59 +0000
Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start
desj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins)
Fri, 02 Jul 1993 23:28:47 +0000

Referenced By

Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start
srt@aero.org (Scott 'Dr. Pain' Turner)
Fri, 02 Jul 1993 16:38:59 +0000
Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start
desj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins)
Fri, 02 Jul 1993 23:28:47 +0000