Re: PBM design and formulae - getting hotter From: bc@lnec.pt (Luis Miguel Sequeira) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1993 17:50:06 +0000 js138@cus.cam.ac.uk (John Sloan) wrote: >|> Obviously, starting earlier gives you an advantage; that's true for >|> real life, and that's true for games, too. > >Just because something happens in real life does not mean that you want to >simulate it in a game. You seem to be arguing that in many games people who >start at the beginning do well and those who don't don't and that is the way it >_should_ be? That's EXACTLY what I was arguing, ant it's EXACTLY the way it should be! :-) [remember, that's just my opinion, and not necessarily an universal law... :-)] >If so, is there any point in rejoining Atlantis if you get killed >of, or is there any point in someone joining it now, as some factions have been >playing it for a game year and will have that years lead on everyone by now? Of course there is a point inrejoining: you won't make the same mistakes than on the first time. You'll make different ones. :-) Of course there's a point in starting now: Russell will put you away from the "old vets", and you can start all by yourself making mistakes, and no one will notice :-) >Besides real life shows that trying to rule a huge empire from a single location >doesn't work - the American war of Independance highlights some of the problems. > >Realism is all very well, but playability is more important. Well, here I have to agree, of course. Playability is certainly much more important than absolute realism. I wonder how so little messages touched that point... As for your example... hmmm... I could give you a few counter-examples, but I'm not really in the mood for a history discussion :-) But ok, you're right. If the game gets too unrealistic, but it is quite playable, it's certainly worth it. I'd prefer a good, playable game to a super-complex and highly realistic one (a few RPGs and ASL come into mind, of course). >I've already posted on this topic. I disagree. Besides as the average empire >size increases, they will become tedious and timeconsuming to play, without >giving any increased reward in terms of strategic challenge. Judgement Day was a >bit like that - I was inputting several hundred orders per turn at one point, >merely to keep my empire ticking over. Its much less tedious now that I've been >reduced in size. Well, ok, you've got your own experience, and had a bad example of how things can go wrong, and boring. I was more fortunate; until now, all examples of "creating larger empires" not only succeeded (in the sense that they actually worked... to a certain size, of course), but the game became much more interesting (as all the "uncivilized folk" around the large empires joined forces to overthrow them, thus creating a new empire, and so on, ad eternum). But I believe you when you say that often the game suffers from "large empires". I happen to know a lot of people from those games where the empires were a lot of fun - except for those who were on the outside, of course. They either joined the empire, or fought against it, or - they simply watched, unable to do anything more interesting. This, obviously, isn't necessarily fun... Curiously enough, you're the only person I ever encountered who complained of having your own large empire to manage, and not actually enjoying it. But ok, you got your point, I've got mine... :-) - Luis Sequeira _________________________________________________________________________ / / Computer scientists do it byte by byte. _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/_/ _/_/ _/ We don't ask for miracles to get the job _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ done, we RELY upon them! _/ _/ _/ _/ If the job still isn't done, we'll stick _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ with Emacs instead... bc@lnec.pt Luis Miguel Sequeira Laboratorio Nacional de Engenharia Civil Phone 351-1-8482131 Ext. 2752 Centro Informatica/Grupo Sistemas Centrais "Don't call me, I'll call you" Av. Brasil, 101 - 1700 Lisboa, Portugal / _________________________________________________________________________/ Up