Re: distance-delayed communication (was Re: Ongoing Strategy Games.)

From: frits@cp.tn.tudelft.nl (Frits Kuijlman)

Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 15:48:59 +0000

Here is another idea with respect to preventing exponential growth by
introducing some time delay in reports and commands.

Keep in mind that the whole discussion below is intended for an epic
type of game where both big empires and individual characters should
get a chance. This is somewhat of a problem(understatement of the year), as
this prevents a lot of 'easy' compromises to get things working.

We all agree that introducing delayed reports and orders can only be done
when there are good 'programming' possibilities for contingencies.
What about the following idea:

I'll use terms from a space setting, but it can also be used for fantasy.

Introduce a command capability. The higher the command capability the higher
the theater of operations can be. So for example a mining ship only has a
simple captain with command capability enough for one or two planetary
orbits, or maybe a star system, whereas a fleet commander might have enough
capability  for a sector of space with a couple of dozen stars.

Within a theater of operations a ship captain or fleet commander can do as
he wishes. No delayed reports, everything comes to your turn report the
moment it happens. If however a ship or fleet has to move outside its
theater of operations a command has to be issued to it by its superior.
Most of the time this will be a move command associated with a change in
theater of operations.

We now have instantaneous reports, so to even things out we keep communication
that costs time. So, a ship captain that wants to move around a bit gives
himself an order with no time delay. A fleet captain that wants to move some
ships from one orbit to another gives the ships captains the move commands,
which would give just a tiny delay as communication within a solar system
will still go relatively quick. However, if his Supreme Badness, Overlord
or Sirius and all the Known Galaxies, wants to move a battle fleet from
one sector to another it might very easily take the order to take one or two
turns to arrive at the fleet's commander.

For this to work the following assumptions have to be made:
-Low tech communication is easily aquired, high tech comm takes a lot
of investment, and almost instantaneous comm takes nearly a miracle, for
example the find of an anchient artifact.

-The same goes for command capability. Low capability can be achieved by almost
everybody, but it isn't very often that you can find somebody that can be
trusted with the control over several sectors of space. He might be bought
by your neighbour(just to keep things interesting). And to start things of,
his Supreme Badness(that is YOU!) gets command capability for the whole
known universe(and everything beyond). You trust yourself, don't you?

This scheme has some good things and some bad things. First the good ones :
1. Exponential growth can get troublesome as command and communication
capabilities have to grow with your ambitions. You can grow very large,
but it will take time, and the management of one big empire is more
difficult than managing several smaller ones. Fighting of new emerging powers
will not be very easy without diplomacy(through instantaneous email).
2. For the long time player achievement will not only be found with more
power, but also in scientific discoveries.
3. To keep things interesting artifacts and other scenery has to be introduced.
Don't know if this is a good or a bad thing. Costs more game design time.

And now some bad things:
1. The wandering trader is not easily implemented(that is, besides your
starting character). You want a trader to go everywhere, but you don't want to
give him the same command capability as a fleet commander. Anybody has any
smart ideas on this point? The only thing I can think of is that command
capability might be restricted to military stuff. Not very neat though.
It can't be a mix of command area and number of ships that are commanded,
because then it is very easy to put together a large fleet consisting
of separately commanded ships with large areas of operations, which defeats
the whole idea. Or do battle only though unmanned drones. But then it is
impossible to create swashbuckler types, which can also not be missed
in epic type of games.

2. Defeat and retreat. In the unlikely event that a fleet commander is
getting completely defeated and has to retreat it might be necessary
for him to leave his assigned theater of operations. There are two
solutions to this.

a. Set an alternate theater of operations. If the commander moves his stuff
there this becomes his current theater of operations, but he has to wait
for central command(his superiors) to set a new alternate theater. He can
do anything in this theater that he likes.

b. Move to a neighbouring 'friendly' space/sector/planet, but you can't
do anything until central commands approves the move. Hmm, ok, you can
shoot back if somebody shoots at you, and repairs are allowed also.

I think a prefer a., it simulates having the message of the defeat going
to central command and requiring the fleet commander to make a holding
action while new orders are being formulated at central command. You are
of course f*cked if the alternate theater has also be taken, but then, you
could have done a better planning job:-)

I still have to make these ideas into a game before the year 2000, but maybe
it contributes something to the discussion.

One can always hope,
	Frits
--
Frits Kuijlman                      frits @ cp.tn.tudelft.nl
Delft University of Technology               The Netherlands

References

Re: Ongoing Strategy Games.
cedman@golem.ps.uci.edu (Carl Edman)
Thu, 08 Jul 1993 04:39:58 +0000
Re: Ongoing Strategy Games.
bruno@cerberus.csd.uwm.edu (Bruno Wolff III)
Thu, 08 Jul 1993 05:23:36 +0000
Re: Ongoing Strategy Games.
cedman@golem.ps.uci.edu (Carl Edman)
Thu, 08 Jul 1993 17:38:21 +0000
distance-delayed communication (was Re: Ongoing Strategy Games.)
troyer@cgl.ucsf.edu (John M. Troyer)
Tue, 13 Jul 1993 00:05:23 +0000