Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start

From: russw@cs.utexas.edu (Russ Williams)

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 19:18:35 +0000

In article <gym.742047704@dcs.ed.ac.uk> gym@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Graham Matthews) writes:
>First there is not much variation in the way good tennis players hit
>the ball - to claim that there is is just plain wrong (likewise for
>many sports like golf for example!). The reason humans hit the ball
>differently every time is caused by two factors :-

I'm not sure what you mean by that paragraph; you seem to say there
is not much variation, then you go on to say "here are the reasons
why there is variation".  Suspiciously close to denying that
something exists by explaining why it exists... :-)
I assume you mean that there is some variation,
but it is very insignificant, and here's what causes the tiny
variation that does exist...

>a) they do not have perfect sensory perception of the parameters
>of a moving tennis ball.
>
>b) they don't play by equations - they play by pattern matching
>which is a process of approximation. Real players on a court do not
>know the exact equations either in mathematical or neurological
>terms.

Speaking as one who has studied golf, I can assure you that there IS
significant variation in how a golfer, beginner or expert, hits the
ball.  Starting from the same tee position, on repeated trials, a
golfer's shots will all end up in different places, and I'm not just
talking a few yards different, I'm talking the difference between
center of fairway versus off in the trees to the left versus the
middle of the pond to the right.

The ball is not moving when they try to hit it; golf is not a real-time
game.  So your point (a) does not explain it.

While it is true that most golfers don't know physics equations,
I believe it's pretty obvious that even if they did, that would not
prevent them from exhibiting this variability in their hits; hence
point (b) does not explain it either.

The obvious explanation is that they are performing a feat of physical
dexterity and people simply don't have perfect control over their bodies.
Boardgames and pbm games use mental analyses, and a well-trained mind
can operate with far less variability and mistakes than a well trained
body.  I think the 2 types of games (mental and physical) are so
qualitatively different that discussing tennis/golf in the same
context as board/pbm games is useless, at least with respect to the
question about publishing formulas and players analyzing formulas.

Russ

References

Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start
desj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins)
Tue, 06 Jul 1993 17:44:40 +0000
Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start
gym@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Graham Matthews)
Wed, 07 Jul 1993 12:21:44 +0000
Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start
gym@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Graham Matthews)
Tue, 06 Jul 1993 11:48:17 +0000
Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start
gym@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Graham Matthews)
Tue, 06 Jul 1993 16:09:24 +0000

Referenced By

Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start
desj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins)
Tue, 06 Jul 1993 17:44:40 +0000
Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start
gym@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Graham Matthews)
Wed, 07 Jul 1993 12:21:44 +0000
Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start
gym@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Graham Matthews)
Tue, 06 Jul 1993 11:48:17 +0000
Re: PBM design and formulae - a fresh start
gym@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Graham Matthews)
Tue, 06 Jul 1993 16:09:24 +0000