Re: When do games become boring?

From: gunzler@netcom.com (Mitch Gunzler)

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 21:50:33 +0000

In article <Aug.28.02.56.22.1993.1818@gandalf.rutgers.edu> morrow@gandalf.rutgers.edu (John Morrow) writes:
>[original & subsequent posting edited for television...]
>
>troyer@cgl.ucsf.edu (John M. Troyer) writes:
>>		When will players get tired of Arena?
>>			 (or more generally)
>>		 When do players get tired of games?
>
>>(One Answer is 'When they get predictable'. Unbeatable strategies and
>>completely explored adventure games are predictable. Games like chess
>>and face-to-face role-playing presumably never get predictable.)
>
>>What keeps up your interest in a game?
>>(or more specifically a pbm/pbem/computer game?)
>>(or more specifically one of these dueling games?)
>
>>conversely, what would _you_ put into one of these games to make it
>>	interesting?
>
>"A minimal set of rules which interact in a variety of ways to provide
>a tremendous quantity of possible outcomes."

Of course, Go is better than chess for this, but both involve a certain
bareness that puts many people off.  This kind of game allows for interesting,
colorfulreactions very quickly.

>... There is only minimal strategy
>adjustment is allowed DURING a fight where, in a real fight, a fighter
>would adjust his or her approach depending on the approach of his or
>her opponent.  Likewise, in chess, a player will adjust his or her
>strategy according to the approach of the other player, taking
>advantage of opportunities, and addressing problems.
>...  What seems to be needed to allow
>effective counters to such situations is a way to tell units in a
>PBEM how to respond to certain situations in the game (there is some
>of this in Olympia and Atlantis already in the form of allying).  There
>may be a fairly simple way to do this.
>
>Suggestions for Arena (off the top of my head...):
>
>o  Create an OBSERVATION characteristic that reflects how long it takes
>   a fighter to recognize the tactics of an opponent.  This will prevent
>
>o  Create conditionals based on the tactics of an opponent which kick
>   in once an opponents tactics are recognized.
>   (e.g. O-RABBIT: Wasp 4 2)
>   This would work in concert with the OBSERVATION characteristic to
>   allow modification of tactics within a round based on the opponent's
>
>o  Clarify which conditionals override which conditionals and at what point.
>
>o  Create a conditional TIRED which will kick in when a player is
>
>o  Consider half-round tactics. (e.g. 1: Rabbit 0 5, Bear 4 2) which
>
>o  Allow conditionals to be bound to rounds (e.g. 1: WOUNDED: Bear 9 9)
>
>o  Allow WEAR and WIELD to be bound to rounds (e.g. 1: WEAR Heavy cloth).

Well, there's a good way to do this that wanders into another of my email
fantasies ... how about programming the fighters?  Allow a simple functional
program to look more or less the way orders do now, but provide for more
sophisticated conditionals based on opponent's equipment, seconds instead of
rounds, opponent's actions (possibly based on such things as an observation
skill and sheer experience in the arena).  Robotwar with Gladius & Pilum.

>o  Add some more tactics -- in particular, some that work better with
>   certain weapons or armor.  For instance, an effective unarmed style
>   (which also prohibits armor but helps speed and agility, etc.) might
>   be nice.

Net, two weapons, grappling, feinting, are all "when you get to it" ideas.

>Other suggestions to increase the variation in Arena:
>
>o  Give weapons a chance of breaking every time they successfully hit
>   or parry.  This way players have something to keep spending their
>   money on and it encourages back-up weapons.  Give armor a strength

Much suggested.  I would also make weapon quality a factor in cost ("Son,
do you really want to trust your hide to just any old blade?  These new
Damascene specials are guaranteed to, um, last longer than your average...")

>o  Add more variation between weapon and armor prices.  Beginning

Nah, I like the idea of being able to select your style (and weapon/armor
combo is part of that) early, I would suggest allowing quality or something
similiar as a way of absrobing funds.

>o  Allow a description line for each player for color purposes.

This is in the sample character, and clearly would be straightforward.

>o  Keep the game going -- it's a good idea.  I'm not trying to bash
>   it, just trying to make suggestions to make it better.

What he said.

Mitch

References

Re: When do games become boring?
morrow@gandalf.rutgers.edu (John Morrow)
Sat, 28 Aug 1993 06:56:23 +0000
When do games become boring?
troyer@cgl.ucsf.edu (John M. Troyer)
Fri, 27 Aug 1993 01:05:48 +0000