Quest Digest 19/1/95 From: ">>-Josh->" <J.P.Gallagher@durham.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 11:12:03 +0000 This here is the Quest digest, the compilation of all posts received by the keeper-of-the-list, and a direct copy of the post sent to all on the list. If you would like to be on the list and join in the discussions, please mail me at the above address. >>-Josh-> "...All I do is keep the beat, and bad company..." -------------------------------------------------------------------------- JPG> Hello and welcome to the Quest Digest. Firstly, an apology to all who sent e-mails and haven't had a reply to a question yet. Time has been rather pressing at the moment, you know, that degree thing getting in the way. Well, here's the list explanation again. o If you want anything sending to everyone on the list, please send it to me with the section for inclusion marked clearly. Do *not* post to the whole list. o If you want taking off the list at any time, just ask. I don't like sending unwanted e-mail to people. o All work here is the property of the author and may not be reproduced without permission unless otherwise stated. JPG> That over with, let's get on with the posts. I have had to cut down on editing this week due to those time shortages. (Where *do* the hours go?) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 06:14:13 -0500 (EST) From: Roger Littlefair <roj@m-net.arbornet.org> A small brainstorming session. The ideas below are off the top of my head, so all I`m expecting is someone tyo say ` het that muight be worth exploring a little more `. Why should members donate to an alliance`s fund? - They could buy ` shares ` which would guarantee them an amount of money from the services the alliance provides. - They get nearer to an alliance alignment. Similar to tithes at temples. - - By paynig money and staying a member over time they could get a status such as commander, advertiser etc... with new orders. Alliance options/services? - Possible members at the opposite end of an island to the HQ should be able to buy a travel option to take them to the nearest HQ. - One member can be given SPY status and be able to join more than one alliance as a member. - Quests in an alliance could include killing a member of the oppoition as determined by the specific attitudes set. - Leader should be able to set a tax on members incomes. Too much? - 30kGP to start is very small, and a decent player could get this by himself in about 5/6 weeks, but it is a lot when you consider it could raise stats in the party by 60 for mages. Now it is A LOT! - An alliance could start with 5 members with others coming. Then one member doesn`t add turns for a few weeks, is kicked out and the alliance buildings collapse! Why not put the building(s) up for auction? - Is it 2000GP for a mage skill shop in your HQ? Are 4 players going to buy every turn? I don`t think so! - Money could come from the alliance protecting shops from thieves. Banks offer more than inns. New prospect of being worthwhile staying in a settlement and gives NPC thieves something to do rather than rob me! New Island? - The new island for good players could be located 14 sectors from the main Island, so only groups able to cast Teleport III can get there, and should be good enough to stay. - Alliance leaders should be able to ` draft ` sections to the island like dungeons. Members would be able to help depending on the alliance. - Why not have others that are accessable by Tele I and II so there is a chance for a split? New players? - Groups should be rated on an average skill bases. If one groups Ave Sk is more than 10 over the opponent then the weaker group runs without losses. This means that Total Death groups fight each other only, because a group of 10 Total Deaths in theory will have an ave sk more than 10 over a group with fighters. - They don`t know what an alliance offers, and just join one that looks good over it`s 4 line ad. Alliances should send an A4/5 page of alliance news which can be bought and sent via KJC to the player. - New players can`t fight or be attacked until they reach an average sk of say 35. Remainder? - Alliances able to set-up villages which may grow? Population is taxable, but for a small amount. Money is split between shareholders and the alliance funds. - New positions including Spy, section leader ( ie war, evil etc... ), scout etc... if anyone can think of others. - What price increases are there going to be for alliance leaders in paying KJC money? - Alliance parties should act as guards for HQ if they are in settlement. If the thief is caught then 15+ members will be attacking him, so it makes sense to leave HQs alone unless you`re very lucky. - A new spell ` locate member `, which gives the players location and last date of submitted turn. - Groups that have paid for more than the free turns are only allowed to join an alliance. Too many join an alliance on turn one and drop out after the free turns. - More powerful items including +5 items. A limited number, so that groups have to fight others for them. These would be immune to spells such as Wrath. I hope these spark off other ideas. I would also like to add that quite a few of these are ideas from other players too many to mention. The best way to get something is if everyone mentions it, so I have repeated some info here... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 09:44:15 +0000 (GMT) From: Allan Hooper <A.O.Hooper@herts.ac.uk> With all this talk about role-playing I just have to mention the first letter I recieved when I started playing Quest. It was from a Good allaince warning me I was in a soon to be warzone (now how many alliances do that?) *but* not only that it was sent to me on a Ye Olde style parchment (screwed up paper coloured with tea I believe) with wording such as "by the right of Garthrana the most blessed who's beauty baths us in her glorious light" and "you and your comrades are invited to leave the area or else our swords will sing your deaths!" . Then below the proclemation there was an explanation from the player about the situation and if I wanted any help just to ask. That one letter alone made me want to play Quest for a long time...... I think the current combat system if far to easy to abuse . The 'average' party should have a fair mix of proffesions but at the moment with warring groups this is not the case . For example the 10 mage group - now Paul Noble said that mages should be the most powerfull characters I agree , up to a point . In most (if not all) magic systems involve the mages getting seriously weakend by spell combat (anyone who's read Dragonlance will know alot about this). Currently this is not really the case, is it? Also there is a lot of parties that have 7-8 DF's and stay in towns and only fight via the S order . Perhaps we should come up with some sort of compromise...... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 12:27:21 +0100 From: Martin Lind Jans <mjxmi@carlbro.dk> Heres some answers to the questions asked about my program in the digest. My program do run on a PC, no specials needed but a color-monitor would help. The program won't cost a dime. I've just received a quest-mapping program from Kai in Germany which is quite nice. It has some features I didn't think about, but my program also has some features that it doesn't. I got a lot of inspiration from the program, especialy the way it handles input, so now its back to work. Also I would be happy to exchange map-information with anyone playing in game 15, one of my goals are to have a full map of this game. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jan 95 12:19:28 MEZ From: Kai Hortmann <CHBRIN5@NYX.UNI-KONSTANZ.DE> About getting good temple quests: Is it possible that this depends on the terrain around the city where you get the quest? I only got three temple quests up to now, but they were from a city that is surrounded by lots of open terrain and fields. And the monsters I had to kill were the usual stuff you encounter on plains, like kobolds and gnolls. I guess that for a quest to kill a dragon or giant I would have to travel to a city that is near a mountain range, where those monsters could be expected to live. About the most stupid thing I ever did in quest: When starting my first group in the German version of Quest I used one of the orders to buy a sling for everybody. After the first round I found out that the starting weapon skill you get is randomly given to one of the weapons you own. With my luck I had both of my fighters and one of my priests with skill in sling and no skill in sword, axe or mace. I'm in turn 34 now and still haven't done a single point of damage with my slings. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris M. Dickson" <chris.dickson@keble.oxford.ac.uk> To: ">>-Josh->" <J.P.Gallagher@durham.ac.uk> CMD> I got my copy of KJC News Jan/Feb 95 today (with a Fantasy Soccer turn I admit!) and there's quite a bit of interesting stuff in it. I'm glad to see Fantasy Soccer doing well for KJC as this does indirectly mean new blood for Quest (evil laugh) but some of the staff changes seem a bit ominous. For example, Jason Hartley leaving cuts the amount of development on KJC games in general by half (which can only mean slower Quest stuff boo hoo) and inputter instability. Jason Parsler leaving will also be a blow on the BSE front. And I was going to join it, too... The latest on the Quest front is alliance routines by the end of the month now, but I am not confident in this (I would rather see it turn up a bit later but with more features!) and avoidance of party-vs-party. This latter development IS interesting. The two-month-gap seems very sensible but I still think there's potential for a last big burst of war without offering chance of a retributive strike. I think that if you choose to avoid party vs. party combat then you should be denied the privilege of alliance membership; as things stand, the alliances are largely war-related affairs and so very unlikely to be of use to non-war people and it's going to get very boring seeing people moan about alliance members who can't be attacked in game newsletters. My view is if you join an alliance you should be prepared to fight for it (only if the alliance is a fighting one and declares hostile attitudes to other alliances!) and that alliances can remain peaceful by simply declaring friendliness to all other alliances. Perhaps new parties (ie less than 5/10/15/20 turns old) should start off as peaceful towards other parties by default, then get the chance to turn the peace flag off later when they're old enough to look after themselves? Lastly, will it be possible to steal from a party who don't want to go into fights? Will it be possible for non-fighting parties to steal from other parties? What about if the steals go wrong, which normally starts a fight? Will this allow a mega-Novala party that just goes around nicking from everyone else... who always run away when you try to fight? I say if you don't want fighting then you shouldn't be allowed stealing. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Neil Bensons <9365040@mull.sms.ed.ac.uk> NB> When I left Quest I had just finished writing a compedium of facts and hints about the game. Kevin and I talked about it and he said that something along those lines may be published - a First Class Quest special or something similar. Was such a thing ever published? Is First Class still going? If not, is anybody interested in resurrecting it, provided we get Kev's permission of course...? JPG> I beleive it is still going as it is always advertised. I still included this because I don't subscribe to it so I wouldn't know even if it was. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jan 95 15:50:43 +0100 From: "GUIU GALLARDO, RAUL" <moustafa@mest.unizar.es> To Quest Digest: About the problem that everybody speak about, the mage's power, I have some ideas. The problem with mages groups would be solved if they are forced to enter in melee-combat. I think that it could be done if the group that start a combat can not flee out of the battle until them reach a wound factor of at least 15% (for example). if the mages group doesnt start the combat they can flee at their usual flee!factor. I dont know if it is a good idea, i am a newcomer to Quest World (15 turns old). -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Clarke <ctc@coventry.ac.uk> Melandra, magical armour is lighter than any other metal armour. I have a thief of around 42 TO (haven't got the exact stats on me) and it has happily wandered over mountains and through swamps with no loss of energy. If only the same could be said for my 30 TO mages wearing Ring! (The thief was also carrying a large shield and a helmet.) As for Plate - it's heavier than scale - I had 70 TO DF's energy nosediving, so I switched them back to Chain. I don't think it's worth the extra armour point. That spell info would be deeply appreciated, I used to keep that sort of stuff but it got a bit lost in the last tidy (circa 1992!). I'm not sure about the usefulness of Religious Book, though. Personally, I think it's one of those items KJC haven't programmed yet. Rogerio Fung you want me! Mail me at ctc@coventry.ac.uk It might take a couple of days to get back to you computing services keep fiddling (or to be more accurate, deleting, my area). Stefan; art, *art* *ART* PPPPPPPPLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSEEEEEEE Pretty please! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 18:46:28 +0000 (GMT) From: Rogerio Fung <l41186@alfa.ist.utl.pt> to mjl if you got 600 xps in 20 turnss, then you I dont know what to tell you. In my 14 turn in bdS I had 2000 xps, and 3000+ gold, so, somethings wrong in here...just to let you know, it is possible to get these values(well, and to let you all know my spectacular feats:)) so, about those 30000 gps , 5000 each member of the alliance, I guess, it isnt that difficult! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jan 95 19:17:17 GMT From: Niall Davis <davis@unixa.clp.ac.uk> CC> I always use a high charisma HP (60+), some times I get 60 gps orcs, others 680 Jackel. Well I always use a hight charisma HP as well 60 or 70+ but I also use a luck spell beforehand. I've found that I get some stupid bitty things but I have had three in excess of 800 and I've not done so many quests. I dont know if its a bug or something but today I was offered a quest to buy an Item. Now I dont know how much the Item costs but I was offered 7800 per Item I brought back. Anyone know how much a Religious Book costs?? I'm not complaining aboput paying 5000. CD> going on about limits to TQs and LQs I object strongly to having the TQs capped, I do however agree that they should be in some relation to the monster(s) hunted. 400 or 500 for imps, jackels and orcs is just too much. On the otherhand a large group of gnomes or others that flee quickly could be worth the effort. The Library Quest really do need some improvement, they are just not worth the effort at the moment. I agree there. > JPG>The price for .... spell components need bringing down.... Sorry but here I disagree again. Mages can become phenominally powerful and once trained use only a small fraction of their spell regularly. It should take some investment to develop and maintain a character who can cast the very poerful high level mag spells. JPG> I spent ages without money enough to develop my mage because I needed lots of other stuff. I wasn't the most successful new party, but I was considering dropping my mage as he would cost so much. This is why I think they are prohibitively high for new players. The idea voiced somewhere about losing energy in casting would help stop mages doing too much. Everyone> Mapping I recently aquired a scanned which I have used in the pased couple of weeks to scan the maps in. Unfortunatly at the moment my SCSI interface has died so I cant use it. But the procedure was quite simple: 1. Scan the map 2. Invert the colours 3. Fade the black to no colour (transparent) 4. Load into a paint program and clip together. The secret is not to scale the parts as that gets messy and to use a paint package that supports virtual screens i.e. larger than the actually displayable size. CD> .. it is rumoured (!) that the big map of Kharne is only actually 200*200 I concur on this one. One of the diagomal water lines in the ocean represents a step of 10. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 21:54:03 GMT From: Paul Noble <editor@elbon.demon.co.uk> PN> Is any of youz going to the Leeds Pub meet on the 4th of Feb? PN> RF metioned that perhaps it should be made inpossible for strong parties to engage weaker ones, if this happened surely we'd see a proliferation of pissy little groups just following strong groups and robbing off them without consequence as we see to a smaller consequence already in settlements. No group should be immune to attack unless they cannot initiate combat as well. PN> Perhaps with the introdution of flagged immune groups then city combat should be relaxed so full combat and spell casting should be allowed? At least certain cities should have some changes to the non-damaging casting rule so it would effectively be aligned as Stefan and several others have suggested. PN> RF also says that Fighters have little place in the world as it stands, perhaps the fighters from the party should be allowed to enter an arena in the city and fight against monsters and other groups fighters for substaintial rewards, no missile or magic, thus the mag/missile groups would not want to take this on and probably couldn't as they have few fighters in the first place. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 05:38:13 -0500 (EST) From: Roger Littlefair <roj@m-net.arbornet.org> There are always pub meets around Britain and I`m sure I`m not the only one not to have been to any, so why not have a meet on a talker on the net? I`ve included a talker I use fairly regularly with three other Quest players. Connect jumper.mcc 3214 If anyone knows a better one then send it in and we`ll arrange to meet on the system. Connect here, and I`m usual;ly on with Igo at aboiut 5-6pm. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 11:43:35 +0000 From: Neil Benson <9365040@mull.sms.ed.ac.uk> BACK AT LAST NB> I just my start-up turn this morning for my old group in game5. I was hoping that at least one of the characters would still be alive but it appears my enemies fed like vultures once I retired. But I've got interesting starting characters, I've been pretty lucky. We're on turn 77, week 133. I make that 56 catch-up turns. This should be interesting. Oh boy, it is good to smell that festering, choking smell of death clinging around your nostrils. I've missed this sespit of an island. Until I get my old Quest files forwarded I could do with some help. If anyone has a spell list they could forward, then I'd appreciate it. Also some help with any new orders that have been introduced in the last 18 months. Help will be repaid in kind. I'll keep you all posted on how things go. ------ THE RKM NB> Does anyone remember these guys? I had something to do with them when I last played, and was wondering if anyone out there had any stories regarding them and the good ole days. It would be great to hear from you. ------ GUILDS NB> The key word these days is "alliance". Everyone wants one and everybody wants to see them introduced into the game. But what is an alliance. By (my own) definition an alliance is nothing more than a group of parties with an agreement of peace between them. I don't like alliances. I prefer guilds, brotherhoods, fraternities. Each of these suggests something more than just a peace treaty between groups. It suggests similar motivations, a theme, friendship, loyality, fealty and a bond. Guilds are recognisable by their aura and their reputation, not just by size or name. So make your alliance something more than just a collection of allies. Tie it together, with your own blood and sacrifce if need be. Grab an idea, seize a persona and project that throughout your alliance so that it instantly becomes recognisbale as an entitiy of its own. Do this, and you are role-playing; anything else, and you aren't even playing at all. Anyone else intrested in a discussion into guilds, themes and using them to role-play? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christian de la Rosa Nielsen <delarosa@login.dknet.dk> To: J.P.Gallagher@durham.ac.uk JPG> This gets my vote as the most entertaining article today! The group names tickled my fancy. I would like to add my suggestions to the debate on how to liven up Quest. I suggest adding new types of NPC's: (in order of toughness, toughest first) Bearers, Champions, and Followers. BEARERS Bearers will only be of use if Artifacts are implemented. They are essentially very powerful monsters with full access to all miracles and a lot of spells. And of course they carry and use an Artifact. If not attacked, they will be friendly and often reveal useful clues. Their description should reflect that they carry an Artifact, i.e. "You encounter Ikfosuar, who carries the Foot of Vechna. He kindly tells you that a stone is a small rock, then moves along". If they are attacked, they defend themselves to the best of their considerable abilities (and those of their artifact), but even if the fight goes against them they will always manage to escape - UNLESS the attacking party is on a quest to recover the Artifact that the Bearer is holding. When the Bearer is slain, a rumor will appear in the news all over Kharne, saying "Ikfosuar has been slain by the Mental Midgets (1234), who then took the Foot of Vechna for themselves". CHAMPIONS Champions are fanatical supporters of a god. Each god has an equal number of these mad-men and women, at least ty start with. Champions have stats of 90+, magical arms and armour, access to miracles, and the god-given ability to escape certain death 90% of thb time. They are in other words very hard to kill. Champions will be friendly to everyone with a 15+ bonus to their god, hostile to everyone with a 15- bonus to thnir god, and neutral to everybody else. As with other NPC's they will often give useful information if not attacked (or attacking!). As for Bearers, their description should reflect their status: "You encounter Eric the Sadist, a Champion of Fleyshur..." When they are finally slain, rumors will spread. "Eric the Sadist, a Champion of Fleyshur, has been terminated by the Violent Scum (1432) in the forest of Guginakom". FOLLOWERS Followers are the eyes and ears of alliances. When an alliance becomes official, a number of Followers equal to the number of members also join up. They have stats of around 50, and a low flee factor. They wander Kharne at random, spying for their alliance. They always proudly boast of their alliance, i.e. "You encounter Waloraki. She tells you that she belongs to the 8 Gods alliance, and urges you to join...". But when followers are attacked, or encounter parties belonging to other alliances hostile to theirs, the alliance leaders will be notified on their next turn-sheet: "Waloraki reports that she got beaten by the Good Ole Boys (1324) near Marshant (15). She was attacked by the Silly Slayers (1789) who belong to our enemy, the Kharnish Doom alliance, on the Marshant road but managed to escape". I think that in this way NPC's will be worth keeping track of, as their names and locations will be useful information - information that can be traded with other groups and alliances. Especially Followers could be a lot of fun; how often hasn't a war between two alliances sputtered to a stop because they didn't know who their opponents members were? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 11:17:35 MEZ From: Kai Hortmann CHBRIN5@NYX.UNI-KONSTANZ.DE What is the best way to increase a fighters skill? My fighters seem to be stuck at their starting levels, while my priests more than doubled their starting skills. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- JPG> It appears I have reached the end! This is not an altogether bad thing as I have lots of work to do. I do enjoy reading everybody's ideas and opinions. This must be the most informative forum for Quest that I know... even if I do say so myself! JPG> Could I ask a favour of you all? Is it possible that to save me on editing times you could do two things? 1) Send private stuff in a seperate e-mail from quest digest stuff. This saves me having to delete so much when composing the post. 2) Initial your paragraphs so that any quoting of them has your name on it. Saves me going through and adding them. JPG> I'm not trying to criticise anyone who doesn't do this as previously it hasn't mattered much to me, but if everyone could start doing that now it would be very much appreciated! Quest on folks... as I will do when my turn eventually gets back... >>-Josh-> "...All I do is keep the beat, and bad company..." Up