ATLANTISv2 atl-design-digest #3 From: csd@microplex.com (Christian Daudt) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 21:41:07 +0000 This file was automatically generated by csd@microplex.com If you notice anything unusual, please e-tell me. You better not kill Faction 9 or this service may be discontinued.:-) Contributions in Silver will be gladly accepted. ---------------------------------------------------------- From owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net Sat Jan 21 10:28:10 1995 Return-Path: <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> Received: from tango.rahul.net by microplex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/920826) id AA10518; Sat, 21 Jan 95 10:28:10 PST Received: by tango.rahul.net id AA21099 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for real-atl-design); Sat, 21 Jan 1995 10:16:59 -0800 Received: from microplex.com (ludwig.microplex.com) by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA21093 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for <atl-design@tango.rahul.net>); Sat, 21 Jan 1995 10:16:52 -0800 Received: from zeus.microplex.com by microplex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/920826) id AA10474; Sat, 21 Jan 95 10:15:30 PST From: csd@microplex.com (Christian Daudt) Received: by zeus.microplex.com (4.1) id AA02621; Sat, 21 Jan 95 10:15:28 PST Message-Id: <9501211815.AA02621@zeus.microplex.com> Subject: Newsgroup access To: atl-design@tango.rahul.net Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 10:15:27 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1128 Hello all, Apparently my r.g.p postings are working O.K. so I have changed to post one article for every 15 emails I receive for each list. The articles are always posted with the following names: ATLANTISv2 atl-players-digest #n ATLANTISv2 atl-design-digest #n so that anyone can create a kill file to remove everything else and read only these articles on r.g.p. I'm also copying these articles to a dir here that is accessible from WWW. The URL is: http://www.microplex.com/~csd/atlantisv2/ It's not pretty, but it works. I'll keep these services up at least for this initial ( and very active ) life of these lists. Later on I'll check to see if anyone is using them, if not I'll kill them or else I'll try a more permanent solution ( I don't think this will be necessary because I guess this email traffic will getting smaller in a while). -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Christian Daudt (csd@microplex.com) Microplex Systems Ltd. 8525 Commerce Court, Burnaby, BC Canada V5A 4N3 Tel: 1-800-665-7798 Fax: 604-444-4239 FTP site: ftp.microplex.com URL: http://microplex.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------- From owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net Sun Jan 22 09:51:11 1995 Return-Path: <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> Received: from tango.rahul.net by microplex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/920826) id AA15875; Sun, 22 Jan 95 09:51:11 PST Received: by tango.rahul.net id AA05956 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for real-atl-design); Sun, 22 Jan 1995 09:41:55 -0800 Received: from vm.biu.ac.il by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA05949 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for <atl-design@TANGO.RAHUL.NET>); Sun, 22 Jan 1995 09:41:48 -0800 Message-Id: <199501221741.AA05949@tango.rahul.net> Received: from VM.BIU.AC.IL by VM.BIU.AC.IL (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 4632; Sun, 22 Jan 95 19:41:04 IST Received: from VM.BIU.AC.IL (NJE origin X41641@BARILVM) by VM.BIU.AC.IL (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 7260; Sun, 22 Jan 1995 19:41:04 +0200 Date: Sun, 22 Jan 95 19:34:53 IST From: jd <X41641@VM.BIU.AC.IL> Subject: ATLANTIS: re banking To: atl-design@tango.rahul.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi, About this hemmoraging effect in banking..... The medievil model of banking protected itself. If you borrowed money, indeed it disappeared from the market.....until it was repaid! Then it returns from whence it came. Moreover, with player-bankers the problem is completely non-existant. However, it should be noted that both for player and non-player bankers, it is critical to successful operations that an appropriately formidable force be it military, magical or whatever, exist to ensure repayment of debt. Since Atlantis does not have an integrated economic system, sanctions will NOT be effective. ----------JD ---------------------------------------------------------- From owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net Sun Jan 22 14:31:07 1995 Return-Path: <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> Received: from tango.rahul.net by microplex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/920826) id AA16880; Sun, 22 Jan 95 14:31:07 PST Received: by tango.rahul.net id AA16203 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for real-atl-design); Sun, 22 Jan 1995 14:11:35 -0800 Received: from vm.biu.ac.il by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA16198 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for <atl-design@TANGO.RAHUL.NET>); Sun, 22 Jan 1995 14:11:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199501222211.AA16198@tango.rahul.net> Received: from VM.BIU.AC.IL by VM.BIU.AC.IL (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 4909; Mon, 23 Jan 95 00:10:48 IST Received: from VM.BIU.AC.IL (NJE origin X41641@BARILVM) by VM.BIU.AC.IL (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 7931; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 00:10:48 +0200 Date: Sun, 22 Jan 95 23:42:40 IST From: jd <X41641@VM.BIU.AC.IL> Subject: SLAVERY To: atl-design@tango.rahul.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello again, A further idea about slavery. Apart from being a most economic way to build an empire, there is also room for financial expansion i.e. slave-trading. Basically, cities would buy slaves. They wouldn't start off selling slaves ( cos how would they get 'em to start off with ) but some of them -probably- would not want to traffic in slaves. Once the market is established in a given city, they would slowly sell them off to the "world", but of course they will be happy to sell to players as well. Thus, players could buy off other players as well as player-supplied city markets. This is a great way for the faint-hearted to reap the benifits of slavery without incurring the ( proposed ) reputation penalties. ( Of course, they would still have to keep the thralls well-guarded, lest revolt reave through their faction. ) Basically, a fair-sized military force could wander the land taking slaves and selling them to cities and players, thus supporting themselves and possibly even making a fair profit. In fact, this is how slave trading really worked around 2000 years ago! Well, Geoff, what's the word? ---------JD ---------------------------------------------------------- From owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net Mon Jan 23 08:53:14 1995 Return-Path: <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> Received: from tango.rahul.net by microplex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/920826) id AA21319; Mon, 23 Jan 95 08:53:14 PST Received: by tango.rahul.net id AA15751 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for real-atl-design); Mon, 23 Jan 1995 08:37:20 -0800 Received: from imag.imag.fr by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA15747 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for <atl-design@tango.rahul.net>); Mon, 23 Jan 1995 08:37:17 -0800 Received: from cosmos.imag.fr (cosmos.imag.fr [147.171.130.1]) by imag.imag.fr (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA29851 for <atl-design@tango.rahul.net>; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 17:37:14 +0100 Received: from deimos.imag.fr (deimos.imag.fr [147.171.20.10]) by cosmos.imag.fr (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA21483 for <atl-design@tango.rahul.net>; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 17:38:27 +0100 Received: (dedieu@localhost) by deimos.imag.fr (8.6.8/8.6.9) id RAA14333 for atl-design@tango.rahul.net; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 17:36:58 +0100 Message-Id: <199501231636.RAA14333@deimos.imag.fr> From: Eric Dedieu <Eric.Dedieu@imag.fr> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 17:36:58 +0100 X-Organization: IMAG Institute, University of Grenoble To: atl-design@tango.rahul.net Subject: Pirats I see some would-be pirats lurking around... but I read nothing about naval combat in the rules. Can a ship attack another ? If so, I guess the combat procedure is the same as on earth, and the sailing skill is ignored. :( If no naval combat is allowed, the poor pirats will end up robbers... -- Eric Dedieu (Eric.Dedieu@imag.fr) LIFIA - 46 av. Felix Viallet, 38031 Grenoble Cedex, France Tel: 76 57 48 13 - Fax: 76 57 46 02 - Dom: 76 49 78 80 ---------------------------------------------------------- From owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net Mon Jan 23 09:09:38 1995 Return-Path: <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> Received: from tango.rahul.net by microplex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/920826) id AA21450; Mon, 23 Jan 95 09:09:38 PST Received: by tango.rahul.net id AA16350 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for real-atl-design); Mon, 23 Jan 1995 08:50:30 -0800 Received: from imag.imag.fr by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA16333 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for <atl-design@tango.rahul.net>); Mon, 23 Jan 1995 08:50:16 -0800 Received: from cosmos.imag.fr (cosmos.imag.fr [147.171.130.1]) by imag.imag.fr (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00538 for <atl-design@tango.rahul.net>; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 17:50:10 +0100 Received: from deimos.imag.fr (deimos.imag.fr [147.171.20.10]) by cosmos.imag.fr (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA21886 for <atl-design@tango.rahul.net>; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 17:51:27 +0100 Received: (dedieu@localhost) by deimos.imag.fr (8.6.8/8.6.9) id RAA14401 for atl-design@tango.rahul.net; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 17:49:55 +0100 Message-Id: <199501231649.RAA14401@deimos.imag.fr> From: Eric Dedieu <Eric.Dedieu@imag.fr> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 17:49:55 +0100 X-Organization: IMAG Institute, University of Grenoble To: atl-design@tango.rahul.net Subject: ATLANTIS. Questions. Before asking questions, I apologize for my previous post (about Pirats) in which I forgot putting "ATLANTIS" in the subject. Now 3 questions: 1) Can a unit use its Tactics skill even if it is BEHIND ? 2) Can non-trade units ENTERTAIN ? 3) Can a unit GUARD 1 then MOVE ? (or even GUARD 1, BUY recruits, then MOVE) in the same month ? Thanks -- Eric Dedieu (Eric.Dedieu@imag.fr) LIFIA - 46 av. Felix Viallet, 38031 Grenoble Cedex, France Tel: 76 57 48 13 - Fax: 76 57 46 02 - Dom: 76 49 78 80 ---------------------------------------------------------- From owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net Mon Jan 23 09:54:08 1995 Return-Path: <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> Received: from tango.rahul.net by microplex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/920826) id AA21749; Mon, 23 Jan 95 09:54:08 PST Received: by tango.rahul.net id AA18396 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for real-atl-design); Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:36:29 -0800 Received: from gatekeeper.svl.trw.com by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA18391 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for <atl-design@tango.rahul.net>); Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:36:24 -0800 Received: from smtp.svl.trw.com (smtpout.svl.trw.com) by gatekeeper.svl.trw.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14177; Mon, 23 Jan 95 09:35:01 PST Message-Id: <n1421268794.30320@smtp.svl.trw.com> Date: 23 Jan 1995 12:33:15 -0800 From: "Mike Hughes" <Mike_Hughes@smtp.svl.trw.com> Subject: Re: ATLANTIS. Questions. To: "Atlantis Design mailing list" <atl-design@tango.rahul.net> X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 3.0.2 Reply to: RE>ATLANTIS. Questions. From: Eric Dedieu > 1) Can a unit use its Tactics skill even if it is BEHIND ? > 2) Can non-trade units ENTERTAIN ? > 3) Can a unit GUARD 1 then MOVE ? (or even GUARD 1, BUY recruits, > then MOVE) in the same month ? 1) Yes, as long as the unit does not have the AVOID flag set as well. Tactics can be used by any unit actually involved in a battle (whether on the front line or leading from the rear). 2) As I understand it, any type of faction can use the ENTERTAIN order. The limitations are that only War factions may use TAX/PILLAGE orders, only Trade factions may use PRODUCE X orders, and only Magic factions may have magicians and use the various magic related orders. Any other orders are available to all factions. (Geoff, correct me if I am wrong.) 3) The only limitation on orders (other than faction type) is that only one month long order may be performed in a turn. As GUARD 1 and BUY recruits are not month long orders, nothing prevents you from setting the GUARD flag, BUYing recruits, and then MOVE-ing. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------- From owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net Mon Jan 23 12:18:02 1995 Return-Path: <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> Received: from tango.rahul.net by microplex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/920826) id AA23424; Mon, 23 Jan 95 12:18:02 PST Received: by tango.rahul.net id AA25863 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for real-atl-design); Mon, 23 Jan 1995 11:52:49 -0800 Received: from cs.rpi.edu by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA25843 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for <atl-design@tango.rahul.net>); Mon, 23 Jan 1995 11:52:40 -0800 Received: from colossus.cs.rpi.edu by cs.rpi.edu (5.67a/1.4-RPI-CS-Dept) id AA02520; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 14:52:27 -0500 (witek from colossus.cs.rpi.edu) Received: by colossus.cs.rpi.edu (4.1/2.2-RPI-CS-client) id AA24808; Mon, 23 Jan 95 14:52:25 EST To: atl-design@tango.rahul.net From: witek@cs.rpi.edu (Witek Szymanski) Subject: Re: SLAVERY Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 13:45:50 -0500 Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY Reply-To: witek@cs.rpi.edu Message-Id: <Ub$8lGgya-p0075yn@cs.rpi.edu> In-Reply-To: <199501222211.AA16198@tango.rahul.net> > A further idea about slavery. > Apart from being a most economic way to build an empire, there is also room > for financial expansion i.e. slave-trading. > Basically, cities would buy slaves. They wouldn't start off selling slaves > ( cos how would they get 'em to start off with ) but some of them -probably- > would not want to traffic in slaves. Once the market is established in a given > city, they would slowly sell them off to the "world", but of course they will > be happy to sell to players as well. Lines: 43 Cities would be able to sell slaves from their own population. In some societies, debtors unable to pay off became slaves of their creditors. The population should reduce itself appropriately. While we're on the topic of cities opposed to slavery, how about abolitionists? Some cities would be controlled by them and the people of the city would attack any that move in owning slaves. Or there could be some cities that, instead of an attack, would give higher prices, etc. to slaveowners. We need to give slavery several big disadvantages. I'm thinking of these: * Slaves can escape into freedom, even if guarded Ways to prevent escape would be put them in a building and lots of guards * Slaves should cost about $3/manmonth instead of the $2 suggested * Slaves can revolt if the slave/guard ratio is too low * Escaped slaves can form into bands and attack slaveholders * Slaveholding gives a local negative factionwide reputation Should give things like higher prices, possible attacks * Freeing slaves should give a local positive faction reputation Makes up for a negative rep, and lower prices for humanitarians * Certain races should not deal with slaveholders (elves perhaps?) What do you think > Thus, players could buy off other players as well as player-supplied city > markets. This is a great way for the faint-hearted to reap the benifits of > slavery without incurring the ( proposed ) reputation penalties. ( Of course, > they would still have to keep the thralls well-guarded, lest revolt reave > through their faction. ) It should be not as great a negative reputation penalty if you buy slaves as opposed to taking them, but you should get some reputation disadvantage. > Basically, a fair-sized military force could wander the land taking slaves > and selling them to cities and players, thus supporting themselves and possibly > even making a fair profit. In fact, this is how slave trading really worked > around 2000 years ago! Not a bad idea, but I think the suggestions I made above should balance things out more. Witek ---------------------------------------------------------- From owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net Mon Jan 23 17:56:06 1995 Return-Path: <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> Received: from tango.rahul.net by microplex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/920826) id AA25841; Mon, 23 Jan 95 17:56:06 PST Received: by tango.rahul.net id AA11084 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for real-atl-design); Mon, 23 Jan 1995 17:35:08 -0800 Received: from warrane.connect.com.au by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA11073 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for <atl-design@tango.rahul.net>); Mon, 23 Jan 1995 17:34:38 -0800 Received: by warrane.connect.com.au with UUCP id AA01023 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for atl-design@tango.rahul.net); Tue, 24 Jan 1995 12:34:18 +1100 Received: by osa04.firststate.com.au id AA07080 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for atl-design@tango.rahul.net); Tue, 24 Jan 1995 11:30:48 +1100 From: David Makin <makind@firststate.com.au> Message-Id: <199501240030.AA07080@osa04.firststate.com.au> Subject: atl- Ward & Exit To: atl-design@tango.rahul.net Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 11:30:48 +1100 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 367 "Ward" a spell that when cast gives the mage levels in observation for that month. A full month spell gives Mage lv = obs lv, a zero time gives 1/2 lvs. Exits/ This refers to exits from Atlantis city. Are they random (ie to different cities each turn)? If not maybe they should be to spread the 200 odd(in some cases very odd ;-) ) factions across the map. David ---------------------------------------------------------- From owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net Mon Jan 23 23:26:53 1995 Return-Path: <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> Received: from tango.rahul.net by microplex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/920826) id AA27300; Mon, 23 Jan 95 23:26:53 PST Received: by tango.rahul.net id AA24579 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for real-atl-design); Mon, 23 Jan 1995 23:16:46 -0800 Received: from bolero.rahul.net by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA24575 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for <atl-design@tango.rahul.net>); Mon, 23 Jan 1995 23:16:44 -0800 Received: by bolero.rahul.net id AA09723 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for atl-design@tango.rahul.net); Mon, 23 Jan 1995 23:16:40 -0800 From: Geoff Dunbar <atlantis@rahul.net> Message-Id: <199501240716.AA09723@bolero.rahul.net> To: atl-design@tango.rahul.net Subject: atl-design list Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 23:16:38 -0800 This is a weekly posting for the atl-design mailing list. This list is meant for anyone interested in the rules and design of Atlantis 2.0. The moderator of the Atlantis 2.0 game is on this list, so your ideas could actually become reality! To send a message to everyone on the list, send email to: atl-design@tango.rahul.net To subscribe or un-subscribe to this list, mail to atlantis@rahul.net. Make sure you specify exactly what you want me to do, because a lot of mail goes to this address. ---------------------------------------------------------- From owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net Tue Jan 24 11:07:54 1995 Return-Path: <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> Received: from tango.rahul.net by microplex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/920826) id AA01333; Tue, 24 Jan 95 11:07:54 PST Received: by tango.rahul.net id AA15354 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for real-atl-design); Tue, 24 Jan 1995 10:47:29 -0800 Received: from minerva.cis.yale.edu by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA15349 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for <atl-design@tango.rahul.net>); Tue, 24 Jan 1995 10:47:27 -0800 Received: from [130.132.111.106] (je-college-node.net.yale.edu) by minerva.cis.yale.edu with SMTP id AA27816 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for <atl-design@tango.rahul.net>); Tue, 24 Jan 1995 13:47:21 -0500 Message-Id: <v01510105ab4af92b2152@[130.132.111.106]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 13:47:26 -0500 To: atl-design@tango.rahul.net From: mosherj@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Joshua Mosher) Subject: Buying Recruits I noticed a problematic result from the first turn. In the rules, it says that if there is too much demand, the product will be distributed proportional to each unit's BUY request size. Apparently, though, if your BUY order is too small, you don't get anything at all. This seems an odd way to distribute goods and will lead to silly levels of competition. To guarantee that I get at least one elf, for example, I must ask for five or six. If others don't actually want elves, I end up with far too many for my needs. How about a small modification that says that a faction is guaranteed at least one of the product with too much demand (unless there simply isn't enough to go around to each faction, in which case they could be distributed randomly one to each until they run out)? This would seem fairer and much more reasonable. Josh Mosher P.S. My whole assumption may be wrong--I am sure Geoff will correct me if what I described in my first paragraph is incorrect. It just seems to fit what I and others experienced in the first turn. ---------------------------------------------------------- From owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net Tue Jan 24 11:57:42 1995 Return-Path: <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> Received: from tango.rahul.net by microplex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/920826) id AA01699; Tue, 24 Jan 95 11:57:42 PST Received: by tango.rahul.net id AA16505 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for real-atl-design); Tue, 24 Jan 1995 11:12:16 -0800 Received: from swindle.Berkeley.EDU by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA16501 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for <atl-design@tango.rahul.net>); Tue, 24 Jan 1995 11:12:14 -0800 Received: from localhost by swindle.Berkeley.EDU (5.65/XCF-1.34) id AA29451; Tue, 24 Jan 95 11:12:03 -0800 Message-Id: <9501241912.AA29451@swindle.Berkeley.EDU> To: mosherj@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Joshua Mosher) Cc: atl-design@tango.rahul.net Subject: Re: Buying Recruits In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 24 Jan 1995 13:47:26 -0500 <v01510105ab4af92b2152@[130.132.111.106]> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 11:12:01 -0800 From: grady@swindle.Berkeley.EDU > From: mosherj@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Joshua Mosher) > Subject: Buying Recruits > How about a small modification that says that a faction is guaranteed at > least one of the product with too much demand (unless there simply isn't > enough to go around to each faction, in which case they could be > distributed randomly one to each until they run out)? This would seem > fairer and much more reasonable. I second this. It doesn't hurt play balance, and players will be happier. Steven ---------------------------------------------------------- From owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net Tue Jan 24 12:05:51 1995 Return-Path: <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> Received: from tango.rahul.net by microplex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/920826) id AA01775; Tue, 24 Jan 95 12:05:51 PST Received: by tango.rahul.net id AA17554 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for real-atl-design); Tue, 24 Jan 1995 11:31:50 -0800 Received: from imag.imag.fr by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA17549 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for <atl-design@tango.rahul.net>); Tue, 24 Jan 1995 11:31:40 -0800 Received: from cosmos.imag.fr (cosmos.imag.fr [147.171.130.1]) by imag.imag.fr (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA12780 for <atl-design@tango.rahul.net>; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 20:30:16 +0100 Received: from deimos.imag.fr (deimos.imag.fr [147.171.20.10]) by cosmos.imag.fr (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA15845 for <atl-design@tango.rahul.net>; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 20:30:16 +0100 Received: (dedieu@localhost) by deimos.imag.fr (8.6.8/8.6.9) id UAA15877 for atl-design@tango.rahul.net; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 20:29:56 +0100 Message-Id: <199501241929.UAA15877@deimos.imag.fr> From: Eric Dedieu <Eric.Dedieu@imag.fr> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 20:29:56 +0100 X-Organization: IMAG Institute, University of Grenoble To: atl-design@tango.rahul.net Subject: ATLANTIS. Forgetting skills. If a non-leader character has learned a skill (e.g. level 1), and at some times tries to study another one, does he forget the first and learn the second, or refuse to learn ? If the latter, is it possible to make a unit lose a skill to be able to learn another ? -- Eric Dedieu (Eric.Dedieu@imag.fr) LIFIA - 46 av. Felix Viallet, 38031 Grenoble Cedex, France Tel: 76 57 48 13 - Fax: 76 57 46 02 - Dom: 76 49 78 80 ---------------------------------------------------------- From owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net Tue Jan 24 12:55:00 1995 Return-Path: <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> Received: from tango.rahul.net by microplex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/920826) id AA02085; Tue, 24 Jan 95 12:55:00 PST Received: by tango.rahul.net id AA18182 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for real-atl-design); Tue, 24 Jan 1995 11:47:29 -0800 Received: from gatekeeper.us.oracle.com by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA18171 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for <atl-design@tango.rahul.net>); Tue, 24 Jan 1995 11:47:25 -0800 Received: from prodpyr2.us.oracle.com by gatekeeper.us.oracle.com with SMTP (8.6.7/37.7) id LAA06303; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 11:47:22 -0800 Received: by prodpyr2.us.oracle.com (Oracle 1.12/37.7) id AA25418; Tue, 24 Jan 95 11:45:57 PST Message-Id: <9501241945.AA25418@prodpyr2.us.oracle.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 11:45:57 PST From: "GDUNBAR.US.ORACLE.COM" <GDUNBAR@us.oracle.com> To: atl-design@tango.rahul.net Subject: Re: ATLANTIS. Forgetting skills. X-Orcl-Application: In-Reply-To: UNX03.US.ORACLE.COM:owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net's message of 24-Jan-95 12:32 X-Orcl-Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Boundary-8204900-0-0 --Boundary-8204900-0-0 Good point. There should be a FORGET order. Geoff --Boundary-8204900-0-0 X-Orcl-Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: 24 Jan 1995 11:37:15 Sent: 24 Jan 1995 11:31:56 From:"Eric Dedieu " <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> To: atl-design@tango.rahul.net Subject: ATLANTIS. Forgetting skills. Reply-to: owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net X-Orcl-Application: X-Organization: IMAG Institute, University of Grenoble If a non-leader character has learned a skill (e.g. level 1), and at some times tries to study another one, does he forget the first and learn the second, or refuse to learn ? If the latter, is it possible to make a unit lose a skill to be able to learn another ? -- Eric Dedieu (Eric.Dedieu@imag.fr) LIFIA - 46 av. Felix Viallet, 38031 Grenoble Cedex, France Tel: 76 57 48 13 - Fax: 76 57 46 02 - Dom: 76 49 78 80 --Boundary-8204900-0-0-- ---------------------------------------------------------- From owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net Tue Jan 24 13:35:57 1995 Return-Path: <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> Received: from tango.rahul.net by microplex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/920826) id AA02357; Tue, 24 Jan 95 13:35:57 PST Received: by tango.rahul.net id AA19806 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for real-atl-design); Tue, 24 Jan 1995 12:17:58 -0800 Received: from mail.UniGate1.Unisys.COM by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA19729 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for <atl-design@tango.rahul.net>); Tue, 24 Jan 1995 12:16:50 -0800 Received: from mvdns1.mv-oc.unisys.com ([192.59.253.100]) by mail.unigate1.unisys.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-1.1) id AA06746; Tue, 24 Jan 95 20:12:33 GMT Received: from MPA15AB.MV-OC.UNISYS.COM by mvdns1.mv-oc.unisys.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-1.8) id AA04963; Tue, 24 Jan 95 20:13:58 GMT From: DBS%MP003@mpa15ab.mv-oc.unisys.com Date: 24 JAN 95 12:14 To: <atl-design@tango.rahul.net> Subject: Re: atl- Ward & Exit In-Reply-To: Your message of 24 Jan 1995 11:30:48 + Message-Id: <DB1O113573EC9B@MP003> >Exits/ This refers to exits from Atlantis city. Are they random (ie to >different cities each turn)? If not maybe they should be to spread the >200 odd(in some cases very odd ;-) ) factions across the map. I agree, this would be a good feature. The exits should be randomly set to cities within the world. This not only allows players to settle in diverse locations, but adds a certain amount of randomness to the startup. Also, I have commented a couple of times with regard to tactical skills and War factions. I have seen very little discussion of these items. I still believe that an 'all or nothing' policy for tactics yielding a suprize atack discourages players from committing tacticians when they know that the other side has a higher level tactician. Making the suprize attack a percentage chance based upon the tactics levels on both side would alliviate this problem. On War factions, I still think that there should be some combat/tactics skill benifit for specializing as a War faction. Let's face it specializing as a war faction makes it so that you can't even make your own weapons, and magic is out of the question. I suggest that the tactics skill be eliminated from the other specialized factions (at least as a learnable skill after they specialize, maybe they can keep the ones they have already trained and accept transfer of ones from other factions). ---------------------------------------------------------------- David B. Stapleton Mission Viejo Room B245 N2 656-6421, (714)380-6421, FAX (714)380-6560 Internet: dbs@mp003.mv-oc.unisys.com or dstaplet@po3.mv.unisys.com ---------------------------------------------------------- From owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net Tue Jan 24 13:40:22 1995 Return-Path: <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> Received: from tango.rahul.net by microplex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/920826) id AA02383; Tue, 24 Jan 95 13:40:22 PST Received: by tango.rahul.net id AA21064 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for real-atl-design); Tue, 24 Jan 1995 12:40:02 -0800 Received: from keymaster.us.oracle.com by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA20919 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for <atl-design@tango.rahul.net>); Tue, 24 Jan 1995 12:37:54 -0800 Received: from prodpyr2.us.oracle.com by keymaster.us.oracle.com with SMTP (8.6.7/37.7) id MAA08938; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 12:35:52 -0800 Received: by prodpyr2.us.oracle.com (Oracle 1.12/37.7) id AA02670; Tue, 24 Jan 95 12:19:27 PST Message-Id: <9501242019.AA02670@prodpyr2.us.oracle.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 12:19:27 PST From: "GDUNBAR.US.ORACLE.COM" <GDUNBAR@us.oracle.com> To: atl-design@tango.rahul.net Subject: Re: Buying Recruits X-Orcl-Application: In-Reply-To: UNX03.US.ORACLE.COM:owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net's message of 24-Jan-95 11:49 X-Orcl-Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Boundary-8205685-0-0 --Boundary-8205685-0-0 >How about a small modification that says that a faction is guaranteed at >least one of the product with too much demand (unless there simply isn't >enough to go around to each faction, in which case they could be >distributed randomly one to each until they run out)? This would seem >fairer and much more reasonable. I'm inclined to say that this problem is pretty minor. The only time that this rule will come into effect is in the first few turns of the game, when 200 factions are all in the same city. Once people have spread out a bit, there will not be such a battle for goods and recruits; even if there is contention, it will probably be between just a few factions. Geoff --Boundary-8205685-0-0 X-Orcl-Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: 24 Jan 1995 11:03:40 Sent: 24 Jan 1995 10:48:14 From:"Joshua Mosher" <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> To: atl-design@tango.rahul.net Subject: Buying Recruits Reply-to: owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net X-Orcl-Application: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Orcl-Application: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I noticed a problematic result from the first turn. In the rules, it says that if there is too much demand, the product will be distributed proportional to each unit's BUY request size. Apparently, though, if your BUY order is too small, you don't get anything at all. This seems an odd way to distribute goods and will lead to silly levels of competition. To guarantee that I get at least one elf, for example, I must ask for five or six. If others don't actually want elves, I end up with far too many for my needs. How about a small modification that says that a faction is guaranteed at least one of the product with too much demand (unless there simply isn't enough to go around to each faction, in which case they could be distributed randomly one to each until they run out)? This would seem fairer and much more reasonable. Josh Mosher P.S. My whole assumption may be wrong--I am sure Geoff will correct me if what I described in my first paragraph is incorrect. It just seems to fit what I and others experienced in the first turn. --Boundary-8205685-0-0-- Up