ATLANTISv2 atl-players-digest #19 From: csd@microplex.com (Christian Daudt) Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 21:47:25 +0000 This file was automatically generated by csd@microplex.com If you notice anything unusual, please e-tell me. You better not kill Faction 9 or this service may be discontinued.:-) Contributions in Silver will be gladly accepted. Sorry, but this report is returning after I corrected a bug in my SW. You may have lost some emails. If anyone is interested, tell me and I'll send you a separate one manually created. ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 Jan 1995 13:11:36 -0800 From: "Mike Hughes" <Mike_Hughes@smtp.svl.trw.com> Subject: Re: atlantis 2 Reply to: RE>>atlantis 2 > I don't ask for conditional statement, but what happens in case > there are 2 orders that taken an entire month ? > > If the MOVE order can occur, is it erased by STUDY order or not ? > And if MOVE is not possible, is STUDY order performed ? As far as I know, there are two things that can prevent you from moving one sector. The first is if you issue the order to a unit that is overloaded, which is the player's fault for not keeping better track of what he is carrying. This condition is preventable through careful planning. The second is if a faction in the sector you are attempting to enter has declared you "Unfriendly" or "Hostile" and has issued a GUARD order to one of his units. This should take the whole turn, as your unit moves into the new sector and is turned back by the enemy unit(s). I know of nothing else that will prevent you from moving at least one sector in a turn (at least in the Spring, Summer, or Fall). Winter may or may not prevent a unit that is walking (i.e. has one movement point) from entering a sector that costs two to enter. Geoff, can you clarify this point? I see no reason to add conditional orders to the game at this time. I agree with Geoff that one of the good points of the Atlantis system is its simplicity. Conditional orders would not be a problem for players now with only a few units, but once factions start to grow and have tens (or hundreds) of units to control, worrying about both regular and conditional orders for each unit would be too much to handle. Comments? Mike ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 10:45:47 PST From: "GDUNBAR.US.ORACLE.COM" <GDUNBAR@us.oracle.com> Subject: Atlantis 2.0: City Guards OK, here's the official word on guards: They will defend anyone who is attacked in their region, and also defend anyone against theft and assassination (if their observation is high enough). In other respects, they are neutral, so you can't tax, or give them stuff. Geoff ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 Jan 1995 14:38:47 -0800 From: "Mike Hughes" <Mike_Hughes@smtp.svl.trw.com> Subject: Re: ATLANTIS- TAX in Cities. Reply to: RE>ATLANTIS: TAX in Cities. From a comment made by Geoff on the Design list before the game started: >> Will the NPC "guards" stop taxation, or compete for tax revenue? > > The guards are "on guard" units, so they must be killed if you wish > to tax a city. > > Geoff ---------------------------------------------------------- From: yaj@cc.gatech.edu (Jay Luo) Subject: Re: Atlantis 2.0: City Guards Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 16:13:52 -0500 (EST) > OK, here's the official word on guards: > > They will defend anyone who is attacked in their region, and > also defend anyone against theft and assassination (if their > observation is high enough). This seems rather odd.... if faction A has a unit try to steal from a unit of faction B's, and faction C, allied to B, has a unit with observation, would C's observer stop the theft? The rules as written would tend to indicate no, that only an observer in your own faction will protect you. This might be a design issue, but I think it would make more sense for theft and assassination to be easier in a city than in the wilderness, or at least no harder; so it might be better if the guards didn't protect against theft after all. ---------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew S. Taylor" <matthew@clark.net> Subject: Atlantis-Updated Rules Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 17:47:45 -0500 (EST) I have updated the MS Word / Word Perfect rules earlier mentioned. I have included the recent changes announced in The Times and appended a "pull- out" section of those tables which appear throughout the rules. I do not know about you folks, but I got tired of looking them up even with a table of contents. As always, I appreciate feedback. I have received very little so far [two people] so I do not know if anyone is even using them. -- Matthew Taylor matthew@clark.net ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 17:48:55 -0500 From: mosherj@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Joshua Mosher) Subject: Re: Taxing in Cities At 12:24 PM 1/31/95, Jay Luo wrote: >So will City Guards stop you from taxing in a city, or not? >They would have to be "allied" to you in order to help anyone who attacks you >in a city, which would imply that you could tax there without them being >upset at you. Unless there is a special exception in the rules for >City Guards. Can we get some official word on this? Inquiring >warmongers want to know. > >Incidentally, does a Guarding unit attack someone who taxes, or does the >taxer's action simply fail? Sorry, I should have clarified that I meant the guards are allied in terms of protection. Keeping the peace does _not_ include shaking down the populace. But don't take my word for it; here is Geoff's response to an earlier question of this type: > >>Will the NPC "guards" stop taxation, or compete for tax revenue? > >The guards are "on guard" units, so they must be killed if you wish >to tax a city. > There you have it. As far as their reaction to attempted taxation, TAX will fail, but PILLAGE should result in combat I think. Josh Mosher ---------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew S. Taylor" <matthew@clark.net> Subject: Atlantis-Updated Rules Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 17:47:45 -0500 (EST) I have updated the MS Word / Word Perfect rules earlier mentioned. I have included the recent changes announced in The Times and appended a "pull- out" section of those tables which appear throughout the rules. I do not know about you folks, but I got tired of looking them up even with a table of contents. As always, I appreciate feedback. I have received very little so far [two people] so I do not know if anyone is even using them. -- Matthew Taylor matthew@clark.net ---------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Blaser <mab@kcc.co.uk> Date: Wed, 08 Feb 95 15:48:07 GMT Subject: Re: Atlantis 2.0: Possible bug ---------- > > >Remi says : > >Geoff, > >Yes, there has been a battle in Nork, (46,53). >My Scouting party (5 HEL) in 46,53 has been attacked by 20 vikings and >5 leaders. >But there my units in Sledmere (47,53) didn't take any part in that battle. > >Also, I'm not sure that a unit of 5 HEL, losing 4 of them will leave >nothing behind. (Where the heck is my remaining HEL ?) > >Cheers > >Remi. From the battle report I received your last unit was wiped out in the second round of combat. i believe your last HEL was sent to hell (sorry, I couldn't resist that one). >Gurwan says : > >BTW, I'd like to tell everybody (that is not an ally already with >faction #124 or faction #24 that these factions do attack on sight people >who try to have a contact with them. >Faction 124 : Mark Hesiden : hesiden@Stoner.COM >Faction 24 : Mike Blaser : mab@kcc.co.uk Now if Remi would take a brief look at his turn report (you know, the thing which very adequately gave you information on most of your faction's demise) he would see that my single, solitary scout in the location the battle took place did NOT join in the fighting. In fact, the unit numbers he gave do not even include any of my units. Still, if he wishes to start mud slinging I'm certain I know who's going to end up with more soil on his clothes. >I remember clearly Mark Hesiden's message (Faction #124) calling for >allies. >It seems he doesn't need any right now. Very sharp, this boy. Very sharp. >Info about them : > > unit (352), leader, 3 horses; Captain > unit (942), 10 vikings > unit (943), 10 vikings > unit (944), leader, combat 1. > unit (945), leader, combat 1. > unit (946), leader, tactics 1. > Unit (947), leader Hmmm, let me see. Nope, no units of mine in there. Sorry to disappoint you. >If anyone feels like they want to have fun fighting >with someone, please do choose faction #124 or #24. >I think this might have been the first slaughtering in Atlantis. If >anybody think they don't want that kind of thing around Sledmere, >let me know, I'm ready to train troops to the combat skill. Please contact >me via e-mail. My instructor is presently attending the Gathering. If anyone wants to experience short, sharp shock therapy then please do give it a try. >They did attack my HEL for pleasure. I hope they don't have any contact >with the Gathering, as this is clearly a reason to be wiped out. > >Regards to peaceful factions. >I wish trouble to the others, for we, peaceful people, are in danger. >Some of the best men are now in the land of Heaven, the home of plenty. And to this I say the meek may inherit the earth but they won't get the mineral rights. Battles are going to be a common factor in this world and anyone who doesn't believe that this is the case will probably not last ten turns. If everyone was to pussy-foot around trying not to tread on anyone else's toes then the game would not be worth playing. If people start recriminations now there will not be enough factions left at the end of turn 7 to populate a dinghy. I can understand how you may be a little bit distressed at the loss of your unit but believe me, you are certainly not going to be the last. Grin and bear it pal, because you are NOT going to get them back. Mike Cognoscenti Faction (24) ---------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Hesidence <hesiden@Stoner.COM> Subject: Re: Atlantis 2.0: Possible bug Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 10:41:56 -0600 (CST) Remi Butaud writes: > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Gurwan says : > > BTW, I'd like to tell everybody (that is not an ally already with > faction #124 or faction #24 that these factions do attack on sight people > who try to have a contact with them. > Faction 124 : Mark Hesiden : hesiden@Stoner.COM > Faction 24 : Mike Blaser : mab@kcc.co.uk This is Mark historian for The Black Company. As historian I feel that it is my duty to record things as accuratly as possible. Mike had nothing to do with this battle, although we are allied so his units should have joined the battle. Part of the bug Geoff will fix I assume. READ NOT FURTHER if you don't want to read role playing. > I remember clearly Mark Hesiden's message (Faction #124) calling for allies. This is correct. The captain of the Black Company called for allies right after the first turn. Unfortunalty for Voyagers from Breizh they did not respond and become one of the select few to be allied with the Black Company. Also it would seem that Voyagers from Breizh did not join the Cartographer's Cooperation Consortium or he would have been warned not to enter the region. Two strikes, one more and the Voyagers are out. > It seems he doesn't need any right now. (This was a clear refusal) This is partly correct. The Black Company's allie quota is full, but the attack was not a refusal since the Voyagers never asked to be allies. > Info about them : > > unit (352), leader, 3 horses; Captain > unit (942), 10 vikings > unit (943), 10 vikings > unit (944), leader, combat 1. > unit (945), leader, combat 1. > unit (947), leader, tactics 1. > Unit (948), leader For those intrested the poor elves were not defenseless they did have swords. Defenders: Scouting party (958), 5 high elves, 5 swords; a few good-looking but tired high elves. > If anyone feels like they want to have fun fighting > with someone, please do choose faction #124 or #24. > I think this might have been the first slaughtering in Atlantis. If > anybody think they don't want that kind of thing around Sledmere, > let me know, I'm ready to train troops to the combat skill. Please contact > me via e-mail. My instructor is presently attending the Gathering. I think I should call in the Black Company's psycholgist. First he calls for people to have fun fighting, then claims no one wants fights around Sledmere, and finally seems to be gearing up for war dispite being against fighting. I had no idea a historian's job would be so difficult. Hmmm, the psychologist tells me this is the normal way one works up courage to declare war. > They did attack my HEL for pleasure. Actually no, the captain had several other reasons. Pleasure was just a side effect ;-) >I hope they don't have any contact > with the Gathering, as this is clearly a reason to be wiped out. > > Regards to peaceful factions. > I wish trouble to the others, for we, peaceful people, are in danger. Contact with the gathering is "a reason to be wiped out"? Are you absolutly sure you are a peaceful people? Mark Hesidence, <<Its French, but I'm not. It also too long for unix hesiden@stoner.com a.k.a The Black Company ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 09:22:54 PST From: "GDUNBAR.US.ORACLE.COM" <GDUNBAR@us.oracle.com> Subject: Atlantis 2.0: Possible Combat Bug ]This is Mark historian for The Black Company. As historian ]I feel that it is my duty to record things as accuratly as possible. ] ]Mike had nothing to do with this battle, although we are allied so his units ]should have joined the battle. Part of the bug Geoff will fix I assume. This is not true. Allies will only auto-join on the defensive side of a battle. He would have had to issue an ATTACK order to be included in the battle. So far, the only bug I'm certain of is that battle reports did not get properly distributed. There were actually 2 battles that took place; since the attackers did not take any losses, they were able to attack the scout unit again, and finish it off. However, most reports did not show this. Also, a faction completely uninvolved (not even within 10 hexes) received a report of the battle. I'm still trying to determine if all of the proper defenders joined the battle. Geoff ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 18:18:26 +0100 From: Remi.Butaud@ustc.vlsi.com (Remi Butaud) Subject: Atlantis: Black Company To those who don't care about Role-playing, do not read this, please. Warning to all : Please do not make any confusion between the actual player (I am Remi, not insane, as far as I can tell, but can anyone who is insane know he is actually ? Mmmhh.... I'm not sure I can convince anybody with that...) and the Atlantis characters (Gurwan : Surely insane, but not responsible for it... easy how I can get my way out of that.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- M. cognoscenti, Faction (24) House Scio : What's all this blah blah about not wanting to be included in the attacking units. It's not very fair, as you were complaining a few messages before about your units _not_ joining the fight. Boy, do you think everybody's blind ? You could at least have some courage. I know what I'm talking about. To The Black company : Yes, The voyagers are sending (and receiving) reports from the CCC, but there is no such thing as a warning not to go in 46,53 in any of the messages I had. This reduces your sort-of-trying-not-to-look-too-bad to barely nothing. By wiped out, I just meant wiped out of the Gathering, of course, I'm really, really feeling terrible when I think you could have misunderstood me, did you ? I am absolutely sure I am peaceful. (Am I ? Yes, I am) Oh, BTW, please, show me your psychologist, as far as you're sure you don't need him every now and then ;-) I haven't eaten any for quite a long time ; and I'm quite pissed when one of those smart-asses comes and tell me what my brain is trying to make me understand ! Gurwan, Voyagers from Breizh, Mourners. ------------------- Remi (Remi.Butaud@ustc.vlsi.COM) ---------------------------------------------------------- From: tulrich@unlinfo.unl.edu (Tim Ulrich) Subject: Re: Atlantis 2.0: Possible Combat Bug Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 15:00:25 -0600 (CST) > However, most > reports did not show this. Also, a faction completely uninvolved > (not even within 10 hexes) received a report of the battle. That was me! While I'm not totally sure about whether the world "wraps" or not, as near as I can tell I'm about 60 sectors away from where the battle took place. Imagine my surprise as I'm reading about this battle, trying to figure out if one of my units had somehow been magically teleported far away. On my report, unit 942 (and all the other units of the faction which were listed), attacked unit 958. In the free round of attacks that 942 had, 3 high elves from 958 bit the dust. 958 was "routed", and 942 got another free round of attacks. 958 lost one. The last bit says: > Total Casualties: > Scouting party (958) loses 4. > Unit (942) loses 0. Just my view on the situation from several hundred (or is it thousand ?) miles away. -- Any views I express are probably my own... Nobody else is willing to let me speak for them! Timothy Ulrich tulrich@unlinfo.unl.edu ---------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew S. Taylor" <matthew@clark.net> Subject: Atlantis-Giri's faux pass Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 15:27:27 -0500 (EST) I for one am willing to, this one time, give Giri the benifit of the doubt. I find his action re the chain letter tacky, but forgivable ONCE & the double faction explination plausable. I will not shoot on site, but will expect a greater effort to avoid spamming the lsit. -- Matthew Taylor matthew@clark.net Up