ATLANTISv2 atl-players-digest #24

From: csd@microplex.com (Christian Daudt)

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 18:58:36 +0000

This file was automatically generated by csd@microplex.com
If you notice anything unusual, please e-tell me.
You better not kill Faction 9 or this service may be discontinued.:-)
Contributions in Silver will be gladly accepted.
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Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 15:24:57 -0500
From: jobollin@iumsc4.chem.indiana.edu (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: ATLANTIS turn error

Okay, I have figured it out.  As a few people have suggested, the reason
some of my units had trouble moving appears to be that it is winter here.
BUT WAIT!  My turn report for the previous turn did not indicate that it
was winter.  In fact, the report I just received is the first one to
indicate winter weather.  Silly me, I had assumed that winter near Sledmere
would occur during the same months as it does in the Earth's northern
hemisphere.

No problem with different winter months.  They can even be different in
different parts of Atlantis, for all I care.

However, I have a suggestion: the turn report should indicate the season that
will be in effect for the _next_ turn, because this is the information that
players need to formulate their orders.  It is pretty much useless to tell
players, "Oh yeah, your movement was halved last turn because it is Winter
where you are."

Melvin of the North
Melvin's Marauders

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Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 07:18:36 +0200 (WET)
From: Adam Abrams <aabrams@shani.co.il>
Subject: mail

Since I'm no longer a player and my faction was eliminated, could you
remove me from all other lists?

x-Faction 168.

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Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 16:17:26 +0500 (EST)
From: JTS <jts@telerama.lm.com>
Subject: What gives?

I split one unit into two, with the second unit consisting of only one
TRM.  The original unit gave NEW 3 a horse and some money, and NEW 3 was
going to ride off into the sunset.  The transfers were successful, but
the MOVE was not.

Here are the error messages:
Unit One (1000): NEW is not a valid order.
Unit One (1000): MOVE: Unit does not have enough movement points.

Below are the orders.  The numbers have been changed to protect
the innocent.

UNIT 1000
	FORM 3
	END
GIVE NEW 3 1 TRM
GIVE NEW 3 1 HOR
GIVE NEW 3 40 SIL
MOVE SE

NEW 3
MOVE NW NW SW

The rules state "If specifying a unit that will be created this turn, use
the form 'NEW #'."  So what went wrong?

Smith

----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 16:27:47 -0500
From: mosherj@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Joshua Mosher)
Subject: Re:

At 1:25 PM 2/13/95, ivickers.UK wrote:
>Hello everyone, I'm fairly new to the game and I was wondering if there
>is a known bug FORMing new units.  I sent the FORM order thus:
>
>  FORM 1
>       NAME UNIT ......
>       DESCRIBE UNIT .....
>       BUY 1 LEADER
>       STUDY .....
>  END
>  GIVE NEW 1 300 SILVER
>
>The parser created the UNIT, allocated a number to it and even GAVE the silver
>to it before trying to BUY the leader, but for some reason the unit bought '0'
>leaders and hence the unit collapsed.  This has also happened to a friend of
>mine on his first turn.
>
>Any clue as to why this happened?
>
>Regards in advance.
>
>Jenna Calayne (Calaynia 279).

This is a result of the infamous overcrowding of cities. If there is a
greater demand for a good than there is supply, the good will be
distributed proportionately according to the sizes of the BUY orders. If
your BUY order is too small, you will get nothing. The solution is to
either wait until you are in a place with fewer factions (prices are
cheaper elsewhere to boot) or to BUY ridiculously large quantities to
guarantee getting anything.

Josh Mosher

----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 08:50:11 --100
From: Laurent ROCHETTE <mickey@anacad.fr>
Subject: Re: Turn Checker, ONLINE!

>> Mail roy@eckerd.edu with a Subject: of "turncheck". The subject is
>> important. If you mess that up, not only will your turn be placed in my
>> mailbox instead of parsed, I'll have to use that information to eradicate
>> your forces. :) Im the message body, enter your orders just like when
>> you mail to the game itself.

But you can see all report that players send to you !

Why don't you send sources on Internet, so each player can use it locally ?

----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 09:14:38 GMT
From: "ivickers.UK" <ivickers@uk.oracle.com>
Subject: Atlantis Thanks...

Jenna Calayne sends her gratitude to all who proffered advice in the
market skills of buying leaders.....

Jenna (279)
----------------------------------------------------------
From: "J.P. Harvey" <u3jph@csc.liv.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Atlantis 2.0
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 12:15:31 +0000 (GMT)

> I am somewhat concerned that (at least in Atlantis City) leaders will
> lose 5 silver eash turn that they work.  They cost 20 silver to keep
> alive for a turn, but can only gather 15 silver by working.  This would
> seem to produce a situation where a leader would die if he is in a region
> with no surplus (he can not entertain or tax), and has no silver.
>
> Michael Odowick
> smellack@crash.cts.com
>
>
I'm Gobsmacked.

Viper.
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Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 08:54:55 --100
From: Laurent ROCHETTE <mickey@anacad.fr>
Subject: Re: What gives?

>> UNIT 1000
>> 	FORM 3
>> 	END
>> GIVE NEW 3 1 TRM
>> GIVE NEW 3 1 HOR
>> GIVE NEW 3 40 SIL
>> MOVE SE
>>
>> NEW 3
>> MOVE NW NW SW
>>
>> The rules state "If specifying a unit that will be created this turn, use
>> the form 'NEW #'."  So what went wrong?

you must put you MOVE order between FORM 3 and END.
You must use NEW 3, only to interact the new unit with old ones.

UNIT 1000
	FORM 3
		MOVE NW NW SW
	END
GIVE NEW 3 1 TRM
GIVE NEW 3 1 HOR
GIVE NEW 3 40 SIL
MOVE SE

Mickey
----------------------------------------------------------
From: "J.P. Harvey" <u3jph@csc.liv.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Atlantis 2.0
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 12:15:31 +0000 (GMT)

Viper.
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 09:44:15 +0500
From: roy@acasun.eckerd.edu (Jonathan Roy)
Subject: Re: What gives?

For all those untrusting souls who are curious, I piped it in my
turnchecker. :) (Had to add a #atlantis and #end line)

ORDERS FOR FACTION #40

UNIT 1000:
NEW UNIT: 3
        END
^^^
3: parse error at 'END' ** That command is unknown or misplaced!
Give 1 TRM to unit #3.
Give 1 HOR to unit #3.
Give 40 SIL to unit #3.
Moving to: SE.
NEW 3
^^^
9: parse error at 'NEW' ** That command is unknown or misplaced!
Moving to: NW NW SW.
#end
^^^^
11: parse error at '#end' ** That command is unknown or misplaced!

I don't know if it's legal, but my checker currently says you must
have an order in a new unit creation section. Geoff? Is a orderless
FROM command legal?

Also, "NEW" is not a legal command. You wanted to use:

UNIT NEW 3
MOVE NW NW SW

(The #end fails because it thought it was still int the FROM command, and
you'll notice the spaces on the END underling are wrong. Yet another
bug. Grr. :) )

----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 09:39:07 +0500
From: roy@acasun.eckerd.edu (Jonathan Roy)
Subject: Re: Turn Checker, ONLINE!

- But you can see all report that players send to you !

Actully, that's not true. :) I _could_ see them if I wanted, but the
way it's set up, I won't even know turns came in to be checker unless
I go check the procmail log file. Like I said, you don't _have_ to use
it. :)

- Why don't you send sources on Internet, so each player can use it locally ?

It's not finished yet. I have a few important things to add, and there
are a lot of bugs. The first two people to send orders and forward mistakes
back to me have already helped me uncover 4-5 major bugs. ONce the code
is finished, and as bug free as I can make it, then I plan to release it.
(I'm also hoping to help Geoff set this up on his end, once it's finished,
so when you send in orders you'll get an auto-reply, which can serve both
as a turn check and a confirmation of arrivall.

Finally, at some point I'd like to add an option where you can load in the
last turn's results, and it'll verify correct unit numbers, and item slike
that. That could only work locally, unless Geoff stored old turnssheets
on his unix host.

Anyways, like I said, you don't have to use it. It's simply there for
anyone who does. (At the very least, all of my allies can benefit.)

(One person already flamed me, telling me the only reason I've made the
program is to try and cheat. Sheesh.)

-Jonathan
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 07:44:47 PST
From: "GDUNBAR.US.ORACLE.COM" <GDUNBAR@us.oracle.com>
Subject: Re: What gives?

--Boundary-8612254-0-0

]>> UNIT 1000
]>> 	FORM 3
]>> 	END
]>> GIVE NEW 3 1 TRM
]>> GIVE NEW 3 1 HOR
]>> GIVE NEW 3 40 SIL
]>> MOVE SE
]>>
]>> NEW 3
]>> MOVE NW NW SW
]>>
]>> The rules state "If specifying a unit that will be created this turn, use
]>> the form 'NEW #'."  So what went wrong?
]
]
]you must put you MOVE order between FORM 3 and END.
]You must use NEW 3, only to interact the new unit with old ones.
]
]UNIT 1000
]	FORM 3
]		MOVE NW NW SW
]	END
]GIVE NEW 3 1 TRM
]GIVE NEW 3 1 HOR
]GIVE NEW 3 40 SIL
]MOVE SE
]
]
]Mickey

This is correct. Put the new orders between the FORM command and
the END command. I have seen some other answers given that were
incorrect (even though they made sense), for example:

; This is INCORRECT and will not work
UNIT 1000
	FORM 3
	END
GIVE NEW 3 1 TRM
GIVE NEW 3 1 HOR
GIVE NEW 3 40 SIL
MOVE SE

;This order will fail
UNIT NEW 3
  MOVE NW NW SW
; This example is INCORRECT

Please follow the example in the rules, and also the example
provided by Mickey, for forming new units.

Geoff

--Boundary-8612254-0-0
X-Orcl-Content-Type: message/rfc822

Received: 14 Feb 1995 00:20:01                    Sent: 14 Feb 1995 00:19:56
From:"Laurent ROCHETTE " <owner-atl-players@tango.rahul.net>
To: jts@telerama.lm.com
Subject: Re: What gives?
Cc: atl-players@tango.rahul.net
Reply-to: owner-atl-players@tango.rahul.net
X-Orcl-Application: In-Reply-To:  <Pine.3.89.9502131625.A29699-0100000@telerama.lm.com> (message from JTS on Mon, 13 Feb 1995 16:17:26 +0500 (EST))
X-Orcl-Application: Content-Length:  487

you must put you MOVE order between FORM 3 and END.
You must use NEW 3, only to interact the new unit with old ones.

UNIT 1000
	FORM 3
		MOVE NW NW SW
	END
GIVE NEW 3 1 TRM
GIVE NEW 3 1 HOR
GIVE NEW 3 40 SIL
MOVE SE

Mickey

--Boundary-8612254-0-0--
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 11:13:40 -0500
From: jobollin@iumsc4.chem.indiana.edu (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re:  What gives?

> I split one unit into two, with the second unit consisting of only one
> TRM.  The original unit gave NEW 3 a horse and some money, and NEW 3 was
> going to ride off into the sunset.  The transfers were successful, but
> the MOVE was not.
>
> Here are the error messages:
> Unit One (1000): NEW is not a valid order.
> Unit One (1000): MOVE: Unit does not have enough movement points.
>
> Below are the orders.  The numbers have been changed to protect
> the innocent.
>
> UNIT 1000
> 	FORM 3
> 	END
> GIVE NEW 3 1 TRM
> GIVE NEW 3 1 HOR
> GIVE NEW 3 40 SIL
> MOVE SE
>
> NEW 3
> MOVE NW NW SW
>
> The rules state "If specifying a unit that will be created this turn, use
> the form 'NEW #'."  So what went wrong?

I'm afraid you didn't read the rules carefully.  Orders for newly formed
units go immediately after the relevant FORM command, before the END.
[Hence the necessity of the END.]  This may make the sequence of your orders
appear illogical, but remember that they are not necessarily executed in the
order they are listed [important tip].  Orders are _executed_ according to
the sequence of turn events listed near the end of the rules.

Regards,

John Bollinger
faction 105

----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 11:07:39 -0500
From: jobollin@iumsc4.chem.indiana.edu (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: <no subject>

> Hello everyone, I'm fairly new to the game and I was wondering if there
> is a known bug FORMing new units.  I sent the FORM order thus:

>   FORM 1
>        NAME UNIT ......
>        DESCRIBE UNIT .....
>        BUY 1 LEADER
>        STUDY .....
>   END
>   GIVE NEW 1 300 SILVER

> The parser created the UNIT, allocated a number to it and even GAVE the silver
> to it before trying to BUY the leader, but for some reason the unit bought '0'
> leaders and hence the unit collapsed.  This has also happened to a friend of
> mine on his first turn.

> Any clue as to why this happened?

There is no "bug" with forming units.  There can be some problems, however.
I bet you and your friend are both in Atlantis City.  When the demand for an
item exceeds the supply, then the available items are distributed in
proportion to each unit's request.  This means that units that only attempt
to purchase one or two leaders [for instance] may get none.  This ceases to
be a problem when you go somewhere less crowded.  There has been some
discussion of this quirk of the parser, and Geoff does not intend to change
it.

John Bollinger
Faction 105

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Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 12:53:48 +0500
From: roy@acasun.eckerd.edu (Jonathan Roy)
Subject: Re: What gives?

Why does "UNIT NEW 3" fail? You can't give more orders to a unit later in the turn,
with that format?

(I didn't see it forbidden in the rules, but I'll go check again.) My checker
would currently allow "UNIT NEW #" since it parses any "NEW <NUMBER>" as being
identical to a unit number...

(Darn bugs. :) )