ATLANTISv2 atl-design-digest #18 From: csd@microplex.com (Christian Daudt) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 00:00:00 +0000 This file was automatically generated by csd@microplex.com If you notice anything unusual, please e-tell me. You better not kill Faction 9 or this service may be discontinued.:-) Contributions in Silver will be gladly accepted. ---------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Atlantis 2.0: atl-design list Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 23:08:48 -0800 From: atlantis@rahul.net This is a weekly posting for the atl-design mailing list. This list is meant for anyone interested in the rules and design of Atlantis 2.0. The moderator of the Atlantis 2.0 game is on this list, so your ideas could actually become reality! To send a message to everyone on the list, send email to: atl-design@tango.rahul.net To subscribe or un-subscribe to this list, mail to atlantis@rahul.net. Make sure you specify exactly what you want me to do, because a lot of mail goes to this address. ---------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Dedieu <Eric.Dedieu@imag.fr> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:18:47 +0200 Subject: Level 1 teachers I tried to have a level 1 leader teach a levelless unit. The latter got 30 days, as if learning without a teacher. It this normal ? Can't a level 1 teacher somewhat help ? -- Eric Dedieu (Eric.Dedieu@imag.fr) LIFIA - 46 av. Felix Viallet, 38031 Grenoble Cedex, France Tel: 76 57 48 13 - Fax: 76 57 46 02 - Dom: 76 49 78 80 ---------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Farming Skill Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 15:51:06 -0800 From: Anson Winsor <apwinsor@span.CS.UNLV.EDU> Matthew wrote back about my question about farming: >Actually, I see taxing in the non-cities as farming and as the proper >function of a war faction. Remember that the peasants are not player units. >All those peasants in a plain are doing something to survive until you >recruit them, and that something is farming [mostly]. Taxing represents to >me establishing yourself as the local lord and claiming your share of the >harvest / local produce each turn. >-- >Matthew Taylor I was not thinking about this as a taxing function, I was thinking that you had units that claimed land and took up farming as a vocation. Perhaps built upon the land and cultivated it. You have your own units do the farming just as they do horse training, hunting, mining, and so on. What would need to be worked out is how you input your work and how you get produce out of it. Anson Winsor Las Vegas ---------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Farming Skill Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 16:00:57 -0800 From: Anson Winsor <apwinsor@span.CS.UNLV.EDU> More about farming, Lewis writes back: >Surely farming is just a subset of WORK. If a unit works in a rural >area, one could assume that the work they are doing is agricultural. >There is no food in the game - something which has always concerned >me. Consider: what use is 10 silver per man in a barely-inhabited >tundra or desert region? Units ought to starve to death. Money can >not be eaten, as I read on a poster once. There are two solutions: >1. keep things as they are, and just pretend that 'silver' equals >money and food. In a medieval society, food probably would have been >the common currency anyway. Or, 2. complicate the rules by >determining that units can only obtain food by buying it in towns or >cites or working in unpillaged plains. The cost of food could vary. >To carry, food is light, and one measure of food is required per >person per month. There are interesting possibilities. Imagine: >after three months of constant bad weather, there is no food to be >bought in Kashmar. Famine breeds war and chaos. > >Lewis. A lot of valid points here. I would prefer that you had to obtain food at whatever prices of the place you are at. You would have to carry food if it was too high priced or not available (like a ship) and would starve if you used it up. This would make the game better for me. However, I was only thinking about adding another skill. One that could give SOME return just about anywhere there was sowable land. Farming could be automatic as far as your return, not have to cart it to market, or you could transport it to another hex if you felt you got a better price there. War over food would make it VERY interesting indeed! Anson Winsor ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 10:37:32 --100 From: mickey@anacad.fr (Laurent ROCHETTE) Subject: orders syntax Subject: orders syntax Hi, I'm writting a parser to check orders (one more). I would know if it correct to split one order on multiple lines as : UNIT 45 GIVE 44 80 SIL Had anybody try it ? Thanks Mickey ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 07:43:32 PST From: "GDUNBAR.US.ORACLE.COM" <GDUNBAR@us.oracle.com> Subject: Re: orders syntax --Boundary-9408562-0-0 I would know if it correct to split one order on multiple lines as : UNIT 45 GIVE 44 80 SIL This will fail miserably. Geoff --Boundary-9408562-0-0 X-Orcl-Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: 29 Mar 1995 01:02:56 Sent: 29 Mar 1995 01:02:48 From:"Laurent ROCHETTE" <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> To: atl-design@tango.rahul.net Subject: orders syntax Reply-to: owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net X-Orcl-Application: Content-Length: 187 Hi, I'm writting a parser to check orders (one more). I would know if it correct to split one order on multiple lines as : UNIT 45 GIVE 44 80 SIL Had anybody try it ? Thanks Mickey --Boundary-9408562-0-0-- ---------------------------------------------------------- From: tim.hruby@his.com Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 12:02:59 Subject: Atl2 Design: Winter Moves Mark Hesidence <Hesiden@stoner.com> said on atl-players (and this has been a continuing topic there): > Friendly duh alert. If it says next month is winter, then whatever moves > you plan in your orders NOW will be effected by winter. You may already > be stuck, so don't pillage if you can't move. Take it from one who's > been there before the winter warnings started. Is this true? If so, I'd call it a bug. If the weather report says "the weather is clear; it will be winter next month" then Move orders for this turn should operate as if it were clear. Winter shouldn't affect Move orders until next turn. If it is as Mark says, and you don't plan on changing it, you should probably change the wording, as it is somewhat deceptive to those who don't get a chance to see Mark's warning (i.e. those who have unsubscribed to atl-players). My $.02, Tim ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 09:23:48 PST From: "GDUNBAR.US.ORACLE.COM" <GDUNBAR@us.oracle.com> Subject: Re: Atl2 Design: Winter Moves --Boundary-9410739-0-0 Is this really confusing? If you get a report for January, it shows what happens in January. So, if it says "the weather is clear", it means the weather is clear in January. And, if it says "it will be winter next month", it means it will be winter in February. I guess I could make it more clear: It is clear in January; it will be winter in February. Do you guys like this more? Geoff --Boundary-9410739-0-0 X-Orcl-Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: 29 Mar 1995 09:18:27 Sent: 29 Mar 1995 09:18:00 From:"owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net" <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> To: atlantis@rahul.net,atl-design@tango.rahul.net Subject: Atl2 Design: Winter Moves Reply-to: owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net X-Orcl-Application: Organization: Heller Information Services, Inc. X-Orcl-Application: X-Mailer: TBBS/PIMP v3.34 Mark Hesidence <Hesiden@stoner.com> said on atl-players (and this has been a continuing topic there): > Friendly duh alert. If it says next month is winter, then whatever moves > you plan in your orders NOW will be effected by winter. You may already > be stuck, so don't pillage if you can't move. Take it from one who's > been there before the winter warnings started. Is this true? If so, I'd call it a bug. If the weather report says "the weather is clear; it will be winter next month" then Move orders for this turn should operate as if it were clear. Winter shouldn't affect Move orders until next turn. If it is as Mark says, and you don't plan on changing it, you should probably change the wording, as it is somewhat deceptive to those who don't get a chance to see Mark's warning (i.e. those who have unsubscribed to atl-players). My $.02, Tim --Boundary-9410739-0-0-- ---------------------------------------------------------- From: tim.hruby@his.com Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 12:00:20 Subject: Atl2 Design: Winter Movement Mark Hesidence <Hesiden@stoner.com> said on atl-players (and this has been a continuing topic there): > Friendly duh alert. If it says next month is winter, then whatever moves > you plan in your orders NOW will be effected by winter. You may already > be stuck, so don't pillage if you can't move. Take it from one who's > been there before the winter warnings started. Is this true? If so, I'd call it a bug. If the weather report says "the weather is clear; it will be winter next month" then Move orders for this turn should operate as if it were clear. Winter shouldn't affect Move orders until next turn. If it is as Mark says, and you don't plan on changing it, you should probably change the wording, as it is somewhat deceptive to those who don't get a chance to see Mark's warning (i.e. those who have unsubscribed to atl-players). My $.02, Tim ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Mar 1995 12:54:09 -0800 From: "Mike Hughes" <Mike_Hughes@smtp.svl.trw.com> Subject: Re: Atl2 Design- Winter Mov Reply to: RE>>Atl2 Design: Winter Moves I think you should change it to: The weather was clear; it will be winter next month. This would make the distinction between how the weather was for all the actions and events reported on the turn results (clear) and how the weather will be for orders submitted for the next turn (winter). Comments? Mike Hughes ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 13:44:21 -0500 From: lam@diamond.eng.tridom.com (Larry Morris) Subject: Re: Atl2 Design- Winter Mov > I think you should change it to: > > The weather was clear; it will be winter next month. How about: The weather was great last month, wasn't it? Now you're stuck in the mountains and you're screwed. Betcha you wish you had a horse, eh? ;-) ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 14:22:29 -0500 From: jobollin@iumsc4.chem.indiana.edu (John Bollinger) Subject: Re: Atl2 Design- Winter Mov I agree with Mike Hughes -- the best wording would be: The weather was clear; it will be winter next month. Perhaps the confusion comes because the reports are dated the first of the month. That is, I get a report dated October 1, Year 1. If it says " the weather is clear; it will be winter next month," then I could interpret it to mean that winter will start on November 1, when it actually means that winter starts NOW. Perhaps it would help if the reports were dated the last day of the month. John Bollinger ---------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Hesidence <hesiden@Stoner.COM> Subject: Question, possible bug Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 14:15:55 -0600 (CST) Question: If I have say 20 men in a region and 10 of them ADVANCE NW and 10 ADVANCE SW. If one or both groups end up in a battle will the other group come to their aid? Another question: This may have been discussed already, just ckecking. If you have a unit in a building and it forms another unit this unit is formed IN the building. This part is fact. What happens if you try to buy too many men for that building to hold? As long as I'm bothering everyone, any body know how many men a shaft will hold? Suggestion: Modify the MOVE command. Because if you want to guard a region you declare a default unfriendly attitude and thus block people movement making them advance. But if you have some other units you want to move in a non-aggessive manner you would use the MOVE command. But assume you don't want waste a month because someone blocks your non-aggressive units, so your non-aggresive units must use the ADVANCE command while you have a default unfriendly attitude. Then the following rules seem to come into play: >If a faction declares Unfriendly or Hostile as default attitude (the latter is >a good way to die fast), it will block or attack unidentified units, unless >they belong to factions for which a more friendly attitude has been >specifically declared. Units which cannot be seen at all cannot be directly >blocked or attacked of course. and >Unfriendly means that you will not admit units of that faction into any region >where you have units on guard. You will not, however, automatically attack >unfriendly units which are already present. Does this mean you basicly attack every non-friendly unit in the regions you advance or are they considered already present? How would you ADVANCE and only attack units which tried to block you and still guard a region? ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 14:16:41 PST From: "GDUNBAR.US.ORACLE.COM" <GDUNBAR@us.oracle.com> Subject: Re: Question, possible bug --Boundary-9418204-0-0 Here is the behavior of advancing and blocking: If you are on guard, you will block any units that you are unfriendly to, and can see, from entering your region. If you move, and are blocked, the move fails. If you advance, and are blocked, you will attack anyone who has blocked you. If you win, you will stay in the region of the battle. If you lose, you return to the region immediately before. Having an Unfriendly attitude never leads to an auto-attack. Is this clear? I think it makes sense. Geoff --Boundary-9418204-0-0 X-Orcl-Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: 29 Mar 1995 12:22:09 Sent: 29 Mar 1995 12:19:52 From:"Mark Hesidence " <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> To: atl-design@tango.rahul.net Subject: Question, possible bug Reply-to: owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net X-Orcl-Application: X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] X-Orcl-Application: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Orcl-Application: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Orcl-Application: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Orcl-Application: Content-Length: 1815 Question: If I have say 20 men in a region and 10 of them ADVANCE NW and 10 ADVANCE SW. If one or both groups end up in a battle will the other group come to their aid? Another question: This may have been discussed already, just ckecking. If you have a unit in a building and it forms another unit this unit is formed IN the building. This part is fact. What happens if you try to buy too many men for that building to hold? As long as I'm bothering everyone, any body know how many men a shaft will hold? Suggestion: Modify the MOVE command. Because if you want to guard a region you declare a default unfriendly attitude and thus block people movement making them advance. But if you have some other units you want to move in a non-aggessive manner you would use the MOVE command. But assume you don't want waste a month because someone blocks your non-aggressive units, so your non-aggresive units must use the ADVANCE command while you have a default unfriendly attitude. Then the following rules seem to come into play: >If a faction declares Unfriendly or Hostile as default attitude (the latter is >a good way to die fast), it will block or attack unidentified units, unless >they belong to factions for which a more friendly attitude has been >specifically declared. Units which cannot be seen at all cannot be directly >blocked or attacked of course. and >Unfriendly means that you will not admit units of that faction into any region >where you have units on guard. You will not, however, automatically attack >unfriendly units which are already present. Does this mean you basicly attack every non-friendly unit in the regions you advance or are they considered already present? How would you ADVANCE and only attack units which tried to block you and still guard a region? --Boundary-9418204-0-0-- ---------------------------------------------------------- From: Lewis Haddow <9235367@arran.sms.ed.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:52:46 +0000 Subject: Re: Atl2 Design: Winter Moves So, if I order my units to move on foot in Kashmari mountains in my current orders (ie before April 2nd), will they succeed? Lewis faction 83 Up