BSE Digest v195 #158

From: kerry@freeside.fc.net (Kerry Harrison)

Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 00:00:00 +0000

BSE Digest                 Sunday, 23 April 1995       Volume 195 : Number 158

In this issue:

+       BSE: STGmap
+       Re: BSE: Last Chance in Jinx?
+       Re: BSE: Last Chance in Jinx?
+       Re: BSE: Flashman Sweeps To V...
+       BSE: Poker Night
+       [none]
+       [none]
+       [none]
+       [none]
+       [none]
+       [none]
+       BSE: QSN Systems..
+       Re: BSE: The Great GTT Give-a...
+       Re: BSE: turns
+       Re: BSE:Kamakaze Tactics
+       Re: BSE: STGmap
+       Re: BSE: Poker Night
+       BSE: STGMap
+       BSE: Dogleg Movement Fund
+       Re: BSE: TCA Treaty?
+       Re: BSE: STGmap
+       Re: BSE: STGMap
+       Re: BSE: turns
+       Re: BSE: TCA Treaty?

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the bse-list
or bse-digest mailing lists.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Scragg" <scragg@infi.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:23:04 +0000
Subject: BSE: STGmap

Anyone whos interested can find STGmap via ftp at..

ftp.demon.co.uk
 /pub/ibmpc/misc/stgmap.zip

I had to log in twice before it would let me in.

------------------------------

From: PROTHORAX@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:15:31 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE: Last Chance in Jinx?

Creature,
 We are curtainly at there starport creature. Do you wish to pass a message
to them as we will forward the information to them.
                                     JANUS PROTHORAX

------------------------------

From: PROTHORAX@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:16:06 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE: Last Chance in Jinx?

Creature,
 This data is classified within WaSP data system. But, we can pass along a
message if you wish.
                                                       JANUS PROTHORAX

------------------------------

From: NoaKrieger@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 00:25:25 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE: Flashman Sweeps To V...

>     "Werth will either join the WCE tomorrow or become a EEM Sex Haven
ruled
> by the Man-God Rlo," said Willis.  "I consider the former the more likely
> possibility".

Actually, it is for the best that the Rlo faction at WCE Werth lost, we take
a dim view about Kriegers being proclaimed deities.  It just complicates
things.

Dr. Noa Krieger
EEM Director of Engineering and Research

------------------------------

From: wayne.alexander@linxinc.com (Wayne Alexander)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 02:04:00 GMT
Subject: BSE: Poker Night

Guido & Blackjack,

You know you're always welcome, but you gotta promise to leave your
hate at the door (and your gun, Guido).

It'll take some tall talking, but I think I can get "Ma" to make some
more of those too tall ham and cheese sandwiches for the next game.

And I swear...if either of you test over .50 for intoxication - I'm
going to have Ace toss you right out of the place.

Hey Guido, that was no maid, that was my sister.  She was just taking
him for a tour of the magic gardens.

Mikel, please disregard Guido's comments, I'm sure he didn't mean to
use the word "steal."  Liberate your money, console your money, even
possible relieve you of your money, but not steal your money.  When you
bet a *1,000 stellars on a pair of threes, no one considers that
stealing.

Dax will deal a fresh deck for every hand, and he brought back some
goodies from Werth.

Usual time, see you then.

Stu

- ---
 ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ EEM: Shipwrights to the Stars for over 150 years!

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From: Jackmyster@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 11:42:42 -0400
Subject: BSE: QSN Systems..

Yertie Hocky!!!

The QSN have obviously forgotten about their claim to Latexia-64, Raposody,
Nicolo, and their attempt at Spartinus!

And the Quoomans wonder why we say they have no Honor...

This information was published a long time ago...we made all the details
public. Your implication that there is "more" to our agreement is an insult
to the THC as a whole...I would advise you to remeber your place when
speaking of the THC!

Lord Den of Earth

------------------------------

From: Jackmyster@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 11:42:44 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE: The Great GTT Give-a...

Richard, ever thought about running for office? I mean, your a natrual,
instead of addressing a valid point, you bring up something that has nothing
to do with the point...in order to shift the conversation...Again, address
what was said...

<.tell us what on earth the QSN would have over any other AFF that the GTT
would want to "sell" a 1000 fact. colony??>

------------------------------

From: Jackmyster@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:08:40 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE: turns

Just a thought guys.

I know that we are all getting a little impatient with the speed at which
everything is happening with BSE...but I truly believe Pete and Thad are
doing their best.

Y'all may just want to cut them a little "slack"...

Bests-
J.

------------------------------

From: Jackmyster@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:08:44 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE:Kamakaze Tactics

Steve:

I think people tend to forget that us Texans are real unforgiving when it
comes to history!<g>

Remeber the Alamo!!<g>

Bests-
J.

------------------------------

From: NoaKrieger@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 15:23:05 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE: STGmap

[OOC]
I played around with STGmap and it looked okay, but I spend most of my time
in Windows.  I use a notebook PC with alot of custom apps from my company,
networking, etc. and had some problems with STGmap and memory.  I would be
real interested in the Windows version.  I (and maybe some others) would
appreciate someone posting a message on this forum when it is available.

Thanks,

Jim G.

P.S. I'm also one of those weird folks who actully send money to those
developers who write a shareware version and ask for money for the full
version if I like the system. <g>

------------------------------

From: NoaKrieger@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 15:36:52 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE: Poker Night

Hey Stu!

Can I play, too?  There's some calculations that I've been working on
regarding poker and blackjack that I want to try out.  But, I keep forgetting
what beats what in poker...now let's see three of a kind beats two pair...or
is it the other way around?

Noa

------------------------------

From: LUDENDORF@delphi.com
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 21:50:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: BSE: STGMap

Chip,

I've d/l'd and examined the GIF version of STGMap.  While it does create a
GIF version of the map, i've found a couple of problems with it:

[1] The command to dump to GIF isn't readily obvious.  I went thru the entire
program and exited thinking that I had accidently opened the older ver. 3.7
(non-GIF).  As an afterthought I read the docs and found the command as an
unlisted command.

[2] The screen dump is great but it only works for smaller maps.  I refer you
to the planet map of Sreel that i sent you.  40x47, is a big map.  At normal
scale on the screen, the GIF is only of a tiny section of Sreel.  the only
scale
at which a map of a planet that size could be printed in it's entirety to GIF
would be at max. zoom-out.  At that small a scale, the terrain is almost
unreadable.

Do you know if the registered version of this will allow full map to dump to
GIF?  I've already created map templetes using Corel Draw 3.0, saved in
BMP, GIF, TIF, & PCX formats.  Using cut and paste, i'm able to recreate
planet maps that are fully readable.  Visio AutoCAD also is able to do this,
but I haven't yet figured out how to covert out of it's format to GIF or BMP.

Steve

------------------------------

From: Alan Hatcher <ZU02380@UABDPO.DPO.UAB.EDU>
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 95 03:14:00 CDT
Subject: BSE: Dogleg Movement Fund

< Raw video feed from the office of Thom Payne, AFT Research Czar >

"I swear if Lloyd doesn't stop boozing it up with those other freaky
poker players I'm gonna have to stick another potato up his flitter's tail
pipe like I did at the last Guildfest...heh heh heh...Did I ever tell you
about the time I caught him and Foxfire and that little Quman secretary with
the great hoo..What?!? We're On?   Ahem....."

"Greetings fellow Periphery citizens, this is Thomas Payne, Research Czar
for the Association of Free Traders.  It has come to my attention that recent
negotiations within the ACCC have resulted in an agreement to move the planet
Dogleg in the Capellan system closer to Utopia MCXVI, thereby resulting in
easier starship travel and increased trade between the two worlds.  Having
been asked by our Negotiator, Mikel Lloyd, to look into this idea, it has been
my decision to setup an account to fund research into the idea."
   "If you feel that moving Dogleg would be a worthwhile cause, I urge you to
call 1-800-MOVE-DOG and make a pledge today.  We will be looking into having
any donations declared as Tax Deductible although this will most likely require
 IMP approval.  Anyone pledging at least *100,000 stellars will be made a
charter member of the "Move Dogleg Fund," and also receive a free Rlo Krieger
"Sex God" T-shirt.  That number again is 1-800-MOVE-DOG, which is a toll free
number anywhere in the Capellan System.  Thank you and we now return you to
your regularly scheduled program."

"Are we off?  Good.  I swear, I don't know why I let Mikel talk me into these
things.  If he didn't have those pictures of me and the Robotic Pleasure Toad
prototype I was trying out a few years ago....Are you sure that camera's off?"

< End of Feed >

------------------------------

From: SBach11@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 11:30:51 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE: TCA Treaty?

To: Steve Matthews and Joe Eckhout
        ( This is in response to a phone call I got from Joe asking what I
remembered and him telling me what happening in game.)

I would like to start by stating NO treaty,law or contract is worth anything
if no one is abiding by it, anyway.

The original TCA-IMP treaty was a fair one. It was about a month and a half
hammering out, but it got done. I notice scanning the board that Richard is
here. He can just as well answer any questions of the original treaty.
 Anyway, the treaty was signed and to be held valid for 1 year. Here is were
some of your confusion begins. At the 1-year 1-day mark a computer message
was posted suggesting the IMP had nullified the treaty. (Joe I think this is
what you remember) Whether this note had IMP sanction or not  I don't know.
At the time people were quiting left and right and the hats of the IMP were
changing weekly. I didn't pay much attention to computer messages, but also I
was quiting too so I didn't bother poking into it.
      Steve-You say during a 30 player lull you verified the treaty intact
with Shannon Rundquist. Nothing at all wrong with that and I thank you for
beleiving in it. However, as people JUMP into vacant affiliations they seldom
check outstanding responsibilities. What if Shannon didn't pass this on and
the others aren't playing by it? I've have talked to Wade Wheaton and he says
it is MOSTLY forgotten by the TCA members only half of which are even playing
as TCA members.  He states the only loyal TCA players are ZCS/FOE/MYR and
maybe the DTR. The PFM apparently doesn't want to recognize it. This will
always be a problem when people can just jump into AFF for the assets/abils
without responsibilty. That ofcourse, is and always will be in the GM's hands
to handle.
     In Closing:
Steve- lets say you have a treaty....
   By treaty the TCA races can have no colonies in the CP >size 5.
        (Bome must be alot smaller now...)
   By treaty all colony aquisition by TCA in CP must be ratified by IMP
council. (Did you really ratify DTR Bome?)
   By TCA charter (not Treaty) companies can only have colonies in home
systems with home AFF permission. Which means the DTR cannot just sell a
colony in KAS space to the GTT. Also, as KAS are NPC their votes must be
ratified through TCA council. Not phone call to the GM's.
    As a note: DTR Southern Cross was a very little colony. Has this changed
or was this the deal of the millenium?

(I don't beleive anyone even knew to do this any more.)

The IMP we played with then was tough and hard nosed. They wouldn't have let
such things get by them. Assuming these have gotten by you and don't have
your approval.  If you were somehow tricked into it then exact IMP revenge.
It meant something if Todd B. and Richard L. were after you, even though most
would deny it.

For both Steve and Joe, if you want a treaty. Have the TCA send you a
list of its members and there positions. Make them play by it first.
Obviously the DTR and PFM are not. Declare it valid and go from there. Right
now you are counting on old knowlege and hopes that the new guys even know
about the old stuff.
                                         Lord Lincoln Xorn
                                         DTR Speaker of the House (Ret.)
                                         TCA Minister of Relations (Ret.)
                                          and the (other other Steve M.)<g>

P.S> WARNING: There were at least Two doctored versions of the Treaty being
circulated between (1991 and 1992) that I know of. Be sure you have an
original or at least one you all agree on.(sigh)

------------------------------

From: ccharnle@m-net148.arbornet.org (Chip Charnley)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 95 11:36 WET DST
Subject: Re: BSE: STGmap

Jim,
     I'll let you know when it's available as I will probably be BETA
testing it.

Chip

>[OOC]
>I played around with STGmap and it looked okay, but I spend most of my time
>in Windows.  I use a notebook PC with alot of custom apps from my company,
>networking, etc. and had some problems with STGmap and memory.  I would be
>real interested in the Windows version.  I (and maybe some others) would
>appreciate someone posting a message on this forum when it is available.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jim G.
>
>P.S. I'm also one of those weird folks who actully send money to those
>developers who write a shareware version and ask for money for the full
>version if I like the system. <g>
>
>

------------------------------

From: ccharnle@m-net148.arbornet.org (Chip Charnley)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 95 11:36 WET DST
Subject: Re: BSE: STGMap

>Chip,
>
>I've d/l'd and examined the GIF version of STGMap.  While it does create a
>GIF version of the map, i've found a couple of problems with it:
>
>[1] The command to dump to GIF isn't readily obvious.  I went thru the entire
>program and exited thinking that I had accidently opened the older ver. 3.7
>(non-GIF).  As an afterthought I read the docs and found the command as an
>unlisted command.

Yes, I knew that which is why I mentioned it in my original availability
message here. :-)

>
>[2] The screen dump is great but it only works for smaller maps.  I refer you
>to the planet map of Sreel that i sent you.  40x47, is a big map.  At normal
>scale on the screen, the GIF is only of a tiny section of Sreel.  the only
>scale
>at which a map of a planet that size could be printed in it's entirety to GIF
>would be at max. zoom-out.  At that small a scale, the terrain is almost
>unreadable.

Yes, I know. I guess what you are asking for is a dump to GIF of an entire
map at a certain scale that you could pan around in a GIF viewer. Correct?

>
>Do you know if the registered version of this will allow full map to dump to
>GIF?  I've already created map templetes using Corel Draw 3.0, saved in
>BMP, GIF, TIF, & PCX formats.  Using cut and paste, i'm able to recreate
>planet maps that are fully readable.  Visio AutoCAD also is able to do this,
>but I haven't yet figured out how to covert out of it's format to GIF or BMP.
>

As it stand now, I doubt it. I'll talk to Tim. Given the nature of GIF, I
doubt that the DOS version will do that but the Windows version might. We'll
see.

>Steve
>
>

Chip

------------------------------

From: tandmb@sierra.net (Tony & Marcia Baldacci)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 08:13:02 +0000
Subject: Re: BSE: turns

>Just a thought guys.
>I know that we are all getting a little impatient with the speed at which
>everything is happening with BSE...but I truly believe Pete and Thad are
>doing their best.
>Y'all may just want to cut them a little "slack"...

And if _that_ doesn't work, try imagining where you'd be if ABM was still
"running" the game.

(There, do you feel better about RTG? - grin)

------------------------------

From: Kerry Harrison <kerry@io.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 13:00:22 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: BSE: TCA Treaty?

On Sun, 23 Apr 1995 SBach11@aol.com wrote:

> P.S> WARNING: There were at least Two doctored versions of the Treaty being
> circulated between (1991 and 1992) that I know of. Be sure you have an
> original or at least one you all agree on.(sigh)

Steve,

Here's a copy of the TCA-IMP treaty that most people are familiar with -
it's the one Neil Bradley uploaded to the CIS PBMGAMES forum on 10JUN92:

TREATY OF PEACE
                      AND ARMISTICE

Between the
                       Races of the

TRANS-CANALLY ALLIANCE

and the

STELLAR EMPIRE

WHEREAS THE STELLAR EMPIRE (IMP) and the TRANS-CANALLY
ALLIANCE (TCA) have entered into disputes involving, but
not limited to the disposition of the stellar systems
known as "North Cape" and "Coral", rights of passage and
the right to regulate such activities as trade,
exploration and colonization;

WHEREAS NEITHER PARTY wishes to engage in a protracted
and destructive military conflict, costly in both lives and
materiel;

BE IT HEREBY DECLARED in accordance with the CHARTER
that the TRANS-CANALLY ALLIANCE and its Member Races, and the
IMPERIAL LAWS as decreed by His Majesty Jasil I of the
STELLAR EMPIRE, its Citizens and Client Races, that these
two August Bodies so duly represented shall enter into an
Amicable Treaty free of Duress and with the full accordance
of the Parties involved.  It is so agreed that:

1)  The Territorial boundaries between the STELLAR EMPIRE
and the TRANS-CANALLY ALLIANCE are as follows as determined
by formal arbitration:
               The boundaries of the TCA begin at and include
the all system conected to the Coral system and include all
systems in the region known as the Trans Canally area.
               The boundaries of the Stellar Empire begin at
and include all systems connected to the Northcape system
and all stystems in the Capellan Periphery. With a noted free
travel access to the Canally black hole for all TCA races.

2)  LAWS: both parties  and associated races agree to abide
by the laws of the sovereign government of the area their
positions are operating. For the IMP this means the TCA
common laws for non-home systems and the laws of home races
inside their home systems. This issue may be invalidated in
whole or in part at the discretion of the sovereign gov. in
the event of mutual posting or a right to war is granted to
the other. In which case the sovereign gov. will define which
laws can or cannot be broken inside its boundaries or
declared war zones.

3)  Neither Party will engage in any activity which
interferes with the internal politics of the Other's
government.

4)  HOME SYSTEMS: AS in the TCA the " home races" sovereign
right over their home worlds it is recognized by this
document that they may make their own laws. There is no
restriction on these laws and they may include exclusion of
all IMP positions from their home space. By this document any
race which excludes the IMP from their home systems may lose
their ability to do the same in IMP space. (i.e. the IMP has
the right to increase restrictions on a home race traveling
the periphery up to and include but not surpass those
restrictions that the race imposes on the IMP in that races
home space.)

5)  The exact location, type of ore, and yield of any
deposits of ores already being mined by the Imperial
Services in the TCA common systems will be made known to the
TCA Minister of the Interior at the time this Treaty is
ratified.  Such deposits, at the discretion of the Interior
Department, may be jointly mined by representatives of both
Governments.  If the TCA so decides that the benefits of
any particular deposit shall be shared, such deposit shall
be administered by the IMP, but both Parties shall be
beneficiaries of its largess in equal amounts.  The TCA
shall have the option of placing as many mines as it sees
fit on the deposit up to the amount of mines placed there
by the Imperial Services.  The maximum amount of mines
will be determined and announced within one month of
Ratification of this Treaty by the IMP and will remain
fixed unless a change is agreed upon by both parties.
This includes such deposits as to be found in any putative
Neutral Systems extending beyond the Canally Black Hole.

6)  POSTINGS: It is to be noted that only the TCA Min. of the
Interior can establish TCA non-home system postings and that
only the ICN P.D. may issue IMP posting.
Resulting in two levels of action:

MUTUAL POSTING: (requires ICN P.D. and/or TCA Min. Int.)
Allows any and all IMP/TCA forces to wage unrestricted war on
positions inside the periphery and T-C common systems.

RIGHT TO WAR: (requires ISP P.D. and/or TCA Min.  Sec.)
Allows specific and select groups to wage restricted military
actions on positions in either the periphery (ISP P.D.) -or-
TCA common systems (TCA Min. Sec.)

7)  No Moonship may pass into the sovereign space of the
Other's without the expressed permission of the Other's
Government except when such travel is for Black-Hole
transit.
8)  The construction of colonies within the auspices of
one Government by the Other shall be done ONLY WITH THE
APPROVAL of the former Party.  At such time or any time
thereafter, the former Government may place a "diplomat"
(an agent with 100% success in intelligence-gathering
orders by 0% in any morale or physical-damage orders) in
the colony.  No Government may own any number of colonies
greater than one more in the others space than are owned by
the other government in their space. (ie If the IMP own 2
colonies in TCA space,  TCA races as a whole may own no more
than 3 colonies in IMP space.)

9)  In order to prevent accidental confrontation of scale any
fleet (>300 hulls warship capable) traveling in a host
governments space should be registered.

10)  HEAVENLY BODIES: the common TCA systems are under the
direct supervision and control of the TCA Min. of the Int.
and it is underdstood that his word is the law in matters
concerning them. Just as the Emperor or (ISP P.D.) is the law
over matters concerning heavenly bodies in the periphery.

11)  During week 26 of every year a representative of each
respective government will meet alternatively at a selected
colony for the ceremonial "Exchanging of the Shrubbery" and
"OLYMPIC" games.  With all the attendant pomp and splendor
befitting such a solemn occasion.

We understand the above treaty and agree to abide by its
rules and compromises for the good of the Stellar Empire and
the Trans-Canally Alliance.

We hereby accept the conditions of this treaty and
understand that it may not be broken or amended by either
party, irreguardless of reason, before wk 1 - 93. Then there
after should either party choose to severe this agreement a
full 60 day notice must be given to the other party.

Ratification:

Emperor Jasil I _____________________  For the IMP Gov.

ISP VADM. De Suffren ________________  For the IMP Forces

Min. Treasury (KAS)__________________  For the TCA Gov.

Min. Security (DTR)__________________  For the TCA Forces

T-Canally Territorial Boundaries

This to clearly state the territorial boundaries of each
race in the TCA as of week 44.190.

DTR-  The home systems of the DTR are RIVER (191), EMPIRE
      (193), and ISLE (192).

FOE-  The home systems of the FOE are WREN (181), MYTHOS
      (188), and SHENENDEHOWA (190).
KAS-  The KAS home system is BOOMER (197).

MYR-  The MYR home system is ST. GAUDENS (187).

PFM-  The PFM home system is EDEN (183).

ZCS-  The ZCS home systems are PARK (111),
      and DEFIANCE (110).

------------------------------

End of BSE Digest V195 #158
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