Quest Digest 1/5/96

From: ">>-Josh->" <J.P.Gallagher@durham.ac.uk>

Date: Mon, 01 May 1995 00:00:00 +0000

____________________________________________________________________
|                                                                    |
|                          THE QUEST DIGEST                          |
|             The forum for the E-mailing Quest-players              |
|       Compiled by Josh Gallagher: J.P.Gallagher@durham.ac.uk       |
|                        Date: 1 May 1995                            |
|____________________________________________________________________|

o This is not an automatically generated compilation, so if all
  contributions could be sent to me in a seperate e-mail with paragraphs
  initialled, I would appreciate it a lot.
o Please do not use this list for your own purposes; people do not
  appreciate thousands of pieces of mail arriving a day!
o If you ever want taking off the list, just say, and I will be happy to
  do so.  I don't want telling off for any nuisance mail!
o All material here is the exclusive property of the author and may not
  be used elsewhere without their permission.

JPG> Welcome to the first Digest of May...

JPG> Contents for the day:
1) Quest Helplne Service advert, e-mail Bill Godfrey for more info
2) Some more info from Frank Maximus
3) Neil Benson
4) Chris Dickson
5) Ewan Jones
6) Paul Noble
7) Steven Fairbrother
8) Alan Hooper
9) David Rees
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quest Helpline service.
This helpline is chaired a by a panel of experienced Quest players, who
will be available to answer any queries or solve any problems to do with
Quest. Send e-mail to <godfrey2@cov.ac.uk> and give "Quest help" as the
subject line. Contact me if you want to join the panel.
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From: maximus@IAEhv.nl (Frank Maximus)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 08:45:32 +0200 (MET DST)

Something which was a question in the latest faq. (Which was a LONG time ago
already....)

Travels can only be made with the whole group.
If you do an order for only 1 person, and don't have enough money to pay the
trip for the whole group, you get the following message:

B 2 73 311  (Buy CHARACTERNR, SHOPNR, JOUNEYNUMBER)

The manager of Journeys greeted us as we entered, then attended to us. He
asked us for payment, for the transport of our whole party to the city of
Swampville(15). It cost 273, but we only had 86. We departed without getting
passage to Swampville(15)
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From: Neil Benson <9365040@mull.sms.ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:33:16 +0000

> JPG> You can talk about it on here Neil, at least the ideas for
> improvements... everybody would like to be a party to discussions on
> that, which is why most people are here!
> JPG> Incidentally, everyone is welcome to use the digest for in game
> messages... we have quite a few people on now, and I'm sure there must
> be _some_ in game stuff around.. inter game alliances anyone?
> JPG> We _will_ keep shouting at KJC, and I think they know that we like
> improvements to the game a month or two after they are mentioned, not a
> year or two...

NB> Thanks Josh.  The point I was aiming at was that this group seems
mainly concerned with _in game_ improvements.  You know, trying to
sway KJCs opinion as to what to develop.  The Digest also speads
about everybody's latest findings and theories.  It's great.  But
what I would like to see is more character based game development.
Helping people with ideas how to introduce more roleplaying into the
game.  Sure, you can all role-play already, but then why aren't you
doing so?

NB>OK, I'm not critising anyone here.  Perhaps in the game you guys are
really good at getting in character.  But the people who write to
me, are not.  So I'd like to help.

NB>If you would like me to do this on the Digest, then great!  I'd love
to get you guys involved.  But not everyone wants to hear my opnions
all the time and I didn't want to force anything on anyone [and this
guy used to run the RKM! -ed].

(JPG> *These* are '-ed' comments, Neil!!)

NB>So if you are interested in hearing a few ideas and getting involved
with some of your own on developing more roleplaying in Quest then
shout out on the Digest and we'll get started.

JPG> I just want to say here that the Digest _can_ be used for in-game
stuff, and I wish it would be... If anyone wanted to do this, I'd split
it in two (maybe send out 2 emails...) devoting one part to in game and
the other to discussions of the game.  All you have to do is send the
stuff to me, not a problem.
JPG> The best way forward as far as I can see in persuading other players
to get involved in more roleplaying is to send snail (or email) in
character as often as possible... it provides much more atmosphere for
the person that receives the mail, and makes them feel guilty if they
don't respond in a like manner.  It is a difficult thing to do at times,
but far more fun.  Anyway... sorry for butting in in the middle of your
bit here Neil...

> I really would like an answer to these question (and a response regarding
> turnaround times) because I'm beginning to feel as if KJC just couldn't
> give a shit.

NB> Chris, your expressing my sentiments exactly.  Things used to be
fine.  But I think things are sliding downhill becuase Kev isn't
employing enough staff - but his new Porsche is lovely.  The new ones
can't even use grammar correctly.  Have a look at my group desc or
the game5 rumours - there are no spaces between any commas,
repeated full stops, and sentences never start with a capital.  I
wrote to have mine desc corrected (on a handwritten scroll!) and it
was completely ignored!

> AH> I think that making plusx armour slightly resistant a bad idea. Some
> item or items should give resistance but not plusx armour as it already
> is quite good.

NB> At 6000 gold per suit - it would need to be damn good.  So it
gives you 22AR, but AR only protects from damage.  You could buy
healing from a temple for 50gold.

> AH> Alas I've already started in G14, Skulking Vermin are now 5 turns old
> and are already nearly on Tq's! Now all I need for the various alliances
> to tell me what they can offer - how about it Dave, Roj, Dean?

NB>  TQs on turn 5!  Wow, I'm on turn 7 and I've got 800 total
experience.  I've just been offered my first low-level Quest and I've
just had my first combat.  In fact, there haven't been any monsters
on the map in all 7 turns!

> SA> Another thing struck me. Why don't start to offer temple quests for
> beasts in a nearby dungeon too? Or maybe ONLY temple quests for
> dungeon-monsters, it would be a bigger challenge! As I understand a
> monster in a dungeon always stay at the same level, so the money paid
> could depend on monster type and which level it is on. The text could be:
> "Due to it threatening the livelihood bla bla bla... The monster group is
> said to live on level 3 of the dungeon north-east of here." This would
> also make the dungeons more interesting and crowded.
> Any comments...?

NB>  Stefan!  NO!  That would be too much fun!  This thing is being
run by KJC - so come back to reality!    :  )

> CC> I would like to congratulate KJC on thier customer care.
> Unfortunately I can't because it's bloody pathetic.  KJC have
charged me for a turn which I have not recieved.

NB>  I got charged for the turn which said: "All your characters have
been killed.  Thank you for playing Quest."  Bloody cheek.
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Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 11:15:46 +0100 (BST)
From: Chris Dickson <chris.dickson@keble.oxford.ac.uk>

CMD> Whoa, Chris, KJC have got your gander, haven't they? I agree with you
that the problem is that they have too few staff running too many games. For
instance, I'm not sure who's been running BSE after Justin (Parsler?) left.
Come to think of it, he was going to be writing First Class as well...?
Furthermore, they did seem to lose an inputter a while ago. Now whilst it's
not my place to tell a company how to conduct its affairs, turnaround times
have been worse over the last 6-12 months than at any other time during the
last 3-4 years when I have been paying for their service. Now, on the whole,
I have been rather satisfied by their service. However, the general opinion
seems to be that it is getting worse. Perhaps if we all told tales of our
poor service from KJC anecdotes, certain people may get the message. Kevin
Cropper is (supposedly?) on Compu$erve, even if he doesn't subscribe to the
digest list. Perhaps someone might find out his address (not sure how...
could try mailing postmaster@compuserve.com ?) and let him know how
dissatisfied we are as a list.

CMD> December 1993. I send in a turn. And wait... and wait... and wait... and
'phone KJC up. They claim never to have received it (about 4-6 weeks after I
sent it). Processed turn arrives 4 days later.

CMD> Two months ago. I send in a turn. And wait... and wait... and wait...
and 'phone KJC up. An update follows immediately. Actual processed turn
arrives 6 weeks later. (It's very worrying when I get it... it looks like I've
given out a load of orders that I didn't and my character skills are lower
than I expected...)

CMD> Now I'm not going to rush to blame KJC for these, as they may well be
just Post Office faults. However, considering my experience of PBM, not just
Quest, but other KJC Games games, and other, non-KJC Games games, I wouldn't
be so sure.

CMD> What Chris (Christine "C.H.E.B." Clarke) has said about turns going in
the wrong envelopes and being sent to the wrong people may happen more
frequently than she thinks. Thankfully, none of my turns have ever gone to
someone else, and I've never been sent anyone else's turns, but I have
(second-hand) information about 3 cases when it has happened. I'd detail them
all here and now but there isn't space and... er... there are some things
better left unsaid, if you know what I mean.

CMD> Lastly, although we may no longer be discussing aligned cities in the
Digest, you still have a chance to vote for them if you want to in the
Quest Digest Improvements poll. It may have been going on for two or three
months but Josh and I have agreed to call it to a halt. Voting forms will
no longer be accepted more than 7 days after I receive this Digest. The
results will be collated, tabulated and circulated ASAP after that. So, no
matter how new you are to Quest or to this list, get your vote in NOW! Josh
probably won't send out the voting form again, because you'll all be sick and
tired of seeing it so many times, but if you mail Josh or myself then I'll
give you the exact details of how to vote.

CMD> Later, y'all, he said in a not-terribly-Quest-like manner...
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From: "Ewan Jones" <c1ej@dmu.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 12:44:35 BST

> JPG> Does anyone know whether 1001 makes any difference to 1000 or 999? I
> tried 1099 last time... got me a 51 skill elf mage.. not bad really...
> what's the best anyone's got?

EJ I figure that 1000 gold is the limit although if the limit is above
this (and there is no proof to suggest this) then 1 more gold will cause the
order to fall into a new category of 1001+. Over the period of about 3 years I
have recruited what must be approaching 100 1000 gp+ characters (those are the
ones I have accepted over 7 groups) and I am pretty sure that it is only the
upper limit on how good a character can be that is affected by dosh, the stats
are still random though. About the best character I`ve had was a BT 51 sk, 69 to,
89 aw.

> Mages would be able to practice spells together

EJ Maybe you could have a spell(s) which required 2 or more mages casting
together, perhaps change world ?
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Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 02:04:18 GMT
From: editor@elbon.demon.co.uk (Paul Noble)

>NB>I'm prepared to get the game going again through the only methods I
>know: good role-playing and heavy involement with the newsletter.  I
>can't affect the game directly, but I can sure as hell make it ten
>times more fun to play just by interacting with the players.  I need
>your help, and I'm prepared to give you all the help you need!

PN> Alas the games cannont be saved and the solution is not role playing the
groups, there is not a cure to this bullshit know as quest. The inherant
problem with quest is despite all kjc did in the early days to try to get
people to separate the real world from quest failed as soon as the charged for
the turns, as soon as anybody puts time and effort into building a group and
image they cannot stand to see it besmirched or defeated, because the group
means too much. Hence every battle is a grudge match especially to the loser. I
think that the other higher quests that could have been on offer as well as the
bank punishment was to go and do over a group, but as soon as they realised the
extect to which players personify their own groups did kjs realise that such
quests would just go further to losing business.

>     n.b.  To develop a group of players in each game dedicated to
>driving the game forward through the principles of role-playing and
>newsletter interaction.

PN> All the first stuff that CC said I agree with wholeheartedly, kjc are
kicking us around like dogs, they know fine well that very few of us would quit
because of a 7 day wait for a turn but it's getting ridiculous, I had one of my
15 day games actually behind because kjc didn't process it and send it out as a
catchup which it was.

>CC> If Steve is reading this, could you explain to me
>why if my Jaunt II spell fails (because I try to go to level 12 when there are
>only 3 levels, for example) why my mage still uses power points, despite not
PN> doesn't jauntingto 10 get you to the bottom level? I'm sure I heard
something to that effect. Sorry I deleted a bit too much, but I think the later
games have too many sites of magic skill, obviously it shouldn't be restricted
to just 5 sites in a game but how about half the cities and a 5th of the towns?

>CC>I really would like an answer to these question (and a response regarding
>turnaround times) because I'm beginning to feel as if KJC just couldn't
>give a shit.
PN> They don't, to them we're just money, sodding tolerate money at that.

>AH> How about skinning monsters after black voiding them? not really
>annoying but quite silly.

PN> Sorry did it again, anyway how can dragons cast spells even when they're
dead?

>Level 9 (180 gold/sector paid from templequest)
>Dragon, Fire Elemental, Life Bringer, Valkyrie

I got an earth elemental for 720gp most similar to my fire el. And are you
certain that dragons are just as hard as elemetals?

PN> To SA, please stop selling your 8 Dogs here.

>CC> I would like to congratulate KJC on thier customer care.
>Unfortunately I can't because it's bloody pathetic.

PN> Hurrah, somebody else who is as pissed off as me.

>CC>know KJC hadn't used to be this bad. I personally blame running too many
>games with not enough staff.
PN> Agreed, kill the footballers!

>Would someone mail me if they are interested in getting into contact with
>this guy? He isn't a new player and doesn't need babysitting, just some
>allies in the games.

PN> I play in g14 and am a BKA member (evil alliance) as long as you're evil
then count me as your man. But if you're good please do not, it's hard enough
when I'm friends with the other three 'goodies' of the game.

PN> You don't get the party rundown because they don't have any members left to
describe, but the group can still absorb spells and stuff, it's just you don't
hit anyone, you may even be able to issue steals and stuff on them.

PN> The PO in Newcastle have been on strike for 3 weeks, I've been waiting for
10 KJC documents and over 20 letters, since service has resumed I have had 2
bits of back log mail and only 1 was a turn so out of 5 groups 4 are running
blind, 3 of which went for a new recruit and TQ, both now wasted. me happy? I
don't think so. I should have had 4 turns on the tuesday before the strike
started (on the wednesday) but got 1, it's this sort of tosh that makes me want
to kill things and quit quest for good.
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Date: 29 Apr 95 04:53:30 EDT
From: Steven Fairbrother <100255.130@compuserve.com>

SF> Neil, Bit of a gross generalisation that the people at KJC can't use grammar
correctly. My O-Level grade A says that I can! Please keep your flaming to
yourself.

SF> Chris, All turns are input the day we receive them. They are printed off
that day, apart from the last couple of Mondays (or Tuesday, we don't work on
Bank Holidays) when Fantasy Soccer has priority on the printers and a printer
was in for repairs. They then go out in the evening post and should arrive the
next day. We have just purchased a L2000ish, 18 PPM Kyocera Printer to remedy
the printer shortfall.
We have recently employed a new staff member in the 'mail room' so I'll chat
with Kevin about any problems there may be there; maybe she can't spot the end
of one player's turn correctly yet.
Not that it's any consolation but, Network space permitting, I'll be adding
routines which keep an entire copy of your previous turn stored on the network
until a couple of weeks, or your next turn is processed. At 35Kb a turn, this
may be a bit optimistic in terms of our available storage space.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 09:37:48 +0100 (BST)
From: Lord of Spoons <A.O.Hooper@herts.ac.uk>

AH> A quick update on Skulking Vermin in G14 - they *should* have been on
Tq's on this thier 6th turn but due to a balls up they went all the way
to a nearby village to buy bottles and returned just to hand them to the
wrong f"#$^#g shop! *WHY* cant I just do a Y1034 and then have them
automatically hand them all over to the right shop in a single order
to avoid mistakes like this? To anyone wondering why I was doing one of
these quests in the first place may like to know that I got 75exp each
for a similar quest , making them extremely good for new groups exp.

> From: *Bensey!* <9365040@mull.sms.ed.ac.uk>
> NB>  Regarding ASLs can we please start a compilation of monster
> group ASLs.  For exmaple, post to the Digest something like:
> 6 Kobolds: active ASL2, passive ASL6.
> 4 Sewer Demons: active ASL2, 4, 5; passive ASL 8.

AH> I used to have a list with about 20 odd monsters already done, if I
can find a copy I'll send it to you. A quick word of warning tho that
ASL's do change depending on the number as well as the type of
 monsters - thus making pinning down an exact ASL level quite hard.

> SERIOUS MESSAGE TIME!
> NB>I'm prepared to get the game going again through the only methods I
> know: good role-playing and heavy involement with the newsletter.  I
> can't affect the game directly, but I can sure as hell make it ten
> times more fun to play just by interacting with the players.  I need
> your help, and I'm prepared to give you all the help you need!

AH> Count me in! I've started to contribute alot to the G3 newsletter but
I'd like to be able to do more in game.

> From: "C.H.E.B." <ctc@coventry.ac.uk>
<stuff cut about KJC being slow with turns>

AH> Yup I've noticed this too and it is very annoying - I dont mind a two
day turn around as long as it is at least regular. BTW you should hear
Paul Noble when his turns are late, an instant fountain of abuse ;-).

> I really would like an answer to these question (and a response regarding
> turnaround times) because I'm beginning to feel as if KJC just couldn't
> give a shit.

AH> I still have nightmares about the time I phoned KJC up about a late
turn....do they take lessons in sounding suicidal, tediously bored, seriously
depressed and devoid of emotion?.... or did I catch them on a good day?
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Date: Sat, 17 Oct 20 11:36:32 GMT
From: Dave Rees <chaos@thanes.demon.co.uk>

> JPG> Does anyone know whether 1001 makes any difference to 1000 or 999? >
DR> Not that I've seen
    SK TO AW CH
EM: 58 39 45 33      Best Seen       SK 58  TO 45  AW 64  CH 58
    56 43 57 57      Individual
    50 42 58 55      Stats
BT: 53 51 89 26                      SK 60  TO 64  AW 89  CH 36
DF: 55 81 63 44                      SK 59  TO 89  AW 64  CH 59
    56 72 64 59
DP: 41 55 45 46                      SK 43  TO 64  AW 45  CH 62

> NB>I liked the points you made about combat in cities being reintroduced
> in a limited form.

DR> 'E' order in town, Yes Please. KJC won't have it though will they, as we
    terrorise, beat up, steal off then kill every new player. Not. Get a life
    Kevin.

> NB>  I liked those ideas too.  But then, I'm still waiting for C 99.

DR> Me Too. C 99 128 <Target> Yep great.

> NB> And if this doesn't work, I'll write my own game!

DR> Count me in if you want a 68000 programmer. I looked at it but couldn't
do it on my own.
    If any one wants a quest mapper for the Amiga mail me your address and
an SSAE I'll send a demo. I'm still waiting for a couple of people to get
back to me but it is finished. (WB 2 or 3 only)

> I really would like an answer to these question (and a response regarding
> turnaround times) because I'm beginning to feel as if KJC just couldn't
> give a shit.

DR> It took you this long to work it out?

DR> Someone (Sorry I deleted it without looking)
Standard 'mages are too powerful' whinge again. KJC's fault not ours.
Same Spell List, too much Mage Skill. I know of 3 big mage groups in G14
only one uses all death spells, but then they are in the most evil alliance
in the game and they are there to back up the alliance claims. How many
groups do you know that uses death spells? I know quite a few and I've had
a few cast at me. None of them worked. Get it.

DR>AH 103 settlement lists, 39500 mapped sectors (inc 19500 > of sea!)
a monthly (ish) newsletter, the chance to write to me!:) An alliance war
and a chance to be on the winning side. Honey roast peasant for tea. The
chance to be beaten up by a friend!:) {For those who don't know, I managed to
trash my own group by accident 2 turns ago![:-( Just after they'd lost 2
chars to another group} Well that's the only evil alliance to think on.

> > Does anybody have other bugs in the Quest system that are just irritating?
DR> How about getting the EXP for spell casting on a group that is no more.
    Why is a group that has no chars not removed from the game?

DR> Some Additions To TQ's
4> Harpy
9> Earth Elemental, Jinx, Water Elemental

DR> "C.H.E.B."
   Could it be that money matters more than us? Personally from us down here
in Cornwall it feels that way. It took Mark (Ed G14) 5 turns before he knew
he'd got the position after two "Next week"s from KJC and then he found out
when I had one in My turns. Customer service. What's that?

> CC> This is a plea from a fellow G7 player who hasn't got net access, but
> would dearly like to gain some allies in G12/13/14 or G13/14/15, I'm not
> sure which combination.
DR> Does he eat Honey Roasted Peasant?

DR> All
How many times have KJC promised this that or the other? I forget. Program
updates are mostly cosmetic and contribute little to game play. The game
system is too limited in it's concept and being written in such an antiquated
language is a programmers nightmare. For me Quest is not 'open ended' as I
have achieved nearly everything that can be done, bar killing a Balrog. With
the advance in technology I believe Quest should now be rewritten bigger and
with more things to do. This will take time I grant, but other companies
run PBM's too. I haven't found one yet that offers the player interaction
that Quest does but when I do..... It does look to me that the code for
Quest is getting just too complex to keep adding to. Take the font change,
the text slicing routines gave up and rolled over and some combat lines are
still missing words. The 'Party Profiles' Whitewash knackered the 'I Party
order' and I've yet to see what 'unintentional extras that won't be included
in any future versions' will arise from the new alliance routines. What's
next for an update .... New text for a rob order..... Wow I've just wet
myself with excitement. The infamous 'horses are next' doesn't do much either
as I have yet to see much advantage bar faster TQ's.
     The point is this. If KJC don't do it soon, someone will. Any half
decent team of programmers could bung Quest together in a year or so,
unfortunately my funds don't extend to coughing for another 2 programmers
for a couple of years. If you want a decent job doing get all your ideas
together and hijack a couple of Uni students and get them to program
'MegaQuest', but don't expect KJC to do it 'cos while the money still rolls
in they don't have to.
	I am I unhappy? Could be.
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JPG> That's the lot for the day... nothing much more to add here today...
Happy Questing folks...

>>-Josh->
"Dreamer...  Nothing but a dreamer..."