BSE Digest v195 #165 From: kerry@freeside.fc.net (Kerry Harrison) Date: Tue, 02 May 1995 00:00:00 +0000 BSE Digest Monday, 1 May 1995 Volume 195 : Number 165 Welcome to the BSE Digest, the place to dicuss all the myriad aspects of life Beyond the Stellar Empire with other denizens of the Greater Periphery. In this issue: + Re: BSE: BSE version 5.0 rules released + Re: BSE: New Rules...Problem + Re: BSE: Outposts to defend colonies + BSE: Joe Bob Briggs + BSE: Questions about the New Rules [ATTN: RTG} + Re: BSE: Strickly Roleplaying + BSE: More typos in the new rules + Re: BSE: BSE version 5.0 rules released + BSE: korondite coating + Re: BSE: New Rules...Problem + Re: BSE: Questions about the ... + Re: BSE: BSE version 5.0 rules released + Re: BSE: BSE version 5.0 rules released + Re: BSE: Questions about the ... + Re: BSE: Baghdad + BSE:New Rules See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the bse-list or bse-digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scragg" <scragg@infi.net> Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 08:16:15 +0000 Subject: Re: BSE: BSE version 5.0 rules released Kerry: I run into the Word for windows 6.0 and Wordperfect conflict quite often at work. If you open the rules in 6.0 and save them as a Word for Windows 2.0 documnet people using word for windows 2.0, 6.0 and Wordperfect for Windows 6.x will all be able to open them. I think some of the formatting may get messed up but I'm not sure. Either way it's a good way for most people to be able to open the rules. I'm not sure if the DOS people will ever get the rules electonically. The tables just won't convert any other way then remaking them in ascii. Joe ------------------------------ From: "Scragg" <scragg@infi.net> Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 13:02:14 +0000 Subject: Re: BSE: New Rules...Problem Jack: Instead of worry about number crunching just pick what the FGZ are most likely to pick based on their racial tendencies. I.E. ROLEPLAY IT. ------------------------------ From: "Scragg" <scragg@infi.net> Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 13:04:45 +0000 Subject: Re: BSE: Outposts to defend colonies [OOC] Question to the group: If a ground party is assigned to defend a outpost, will the attempt to reprogram the outpost constitute a attack and trigger the gp's defend orders? Or do I have to put basically everyone on my attack list for the gp to engage the interloper? Thanks in advance for the assistance. Jim G. You put everyone on your enemy list then add the people you don't want to attack to your support and defend list. (I think) Joe ------------------------------ From: Ron.Kleinman@Eng.Sun.COM (Ron Kleinman) Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 10:30:25 -0700 Subject: BSE: Joe Bob Briggs Re: Fat-boy and Jack Everitt. >> Local fertalizer manufacturers report a rash of thefts of >>raw animal dung, which local authorities suspect may be related to the >>impending arrivals. Boy! I'm telling you, the entire crew of the QSN Blue Whale is waiting on pins and needles for the next installment from IND Allipon by Joe Bob Briggs. We jest love stories that have a happy ending, and this one is certainly shaping up that way. Sincerely, Nicholas Van Rijn QSN Blue Whale ------------------------------ From: Kerry Harrison <kerry@io.com> Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 12:45:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: BSE: Questions about the New Rules [ATTN: RTG} Chapter 2 - Starships, Ship Maintenance Section Any chance of having more Maintenance Complexes giving a longer time between overhauls? Chapter 2 - Starships, Towing Ships Section Is there a standard order for towing ships? Nothing is listed in Appendix L - Standard Actions about it. Chapter 2 - Starships, Scanning Section What happened to the Block Scans? Chapter 2 - Starhips, Starcaptain Ranks Section How often are promotions allowed? Chapter 3 - Colonies, Starport Complexes Section In the 4th paragraph about the System Array Complex the last sentence is redundant, also do SAC reports still cost $? Chapter 3 - Colonies, Market Report & Message Section The wrong codes for Restricted Market Buy and Restricted Market Sell are used, correct codes are BR and SR respectively according to Appendix L - Standard Actions. Chapter 3 - Colonies, Factory Production Section The 5th paragraph seems to conflict with the research rules in Chapter 13. Chapter 4 - Ground Parties, Surface Movement Section What happened to surface movement times getting reduced by one half? Chapter 7 - Agents, Agent Actions Section How about a couple of new agent actions that can be used to determine a colonies Space Defense Value and Ground Defense Value (use the format on the Political Turns)? Chapter 9 - Outposts, Outpost and Colony RTS Section Does a teleporter RTS still require pairs of teleporters? Also can a GP be used at the outpost end instead of a ship? How is a teleporter RTS to another colony setup? Chapter 11 - Upgrading, Building & Specializing, Ship Specializaing Section Disrupter (as in the CAT & WCE ones) should be spelled Disruptor. Cybernetic Mind Disruptors should be spelled Cybernetic Mind Disrupters. Also, Cybernetic Mind Disrupters are used in the Main section of a ship not in the Command and they should only get treated a specialized items (for MU calcs) with ships that have the Command & Control specialization since the are a form of electronic warfare equipment. Hmm, shouldn't korondite be treated as a specialized item (for MU calc) for some of the warship specials? Chapter 13 - Research , Scientists Section Neat, where do we get them for and what's the item number for them? And shouldn't they be listed as one of the things a Colonial Transport can carry at reduced MU costs? Chapter 13 - Research, Capturing Technology Section What can't new affiliation technology be research? Maybe at a much greater cost them normal? Appendix A - Items Listing I think all of the common tech items should be contain in this listing - - the only ones mising are Armored Tanks and Outpost Security. Also it would be nice to have Positron Guns and Disruptors listed also. Appendix B - Morales Gains Chart Okay, what in the name of Sam Hill are Furkies? More detail and a breakdown of the various morale categories would be nice, also what's the max value in each category? Appendix D - Affiliations Is the ISP an government affiliation? <G> The RIP is an government affiliation? Now all this time I thought they was just a bunch of pirates. In the last paragraph of the QSN description, the word mare should be more. Hmm, so are the AIFS active now? Appendix J - Item Statistics The item number for Jammers is 15, not 55. Item number 37, Tooled Factories seems to have been left off. Also Furkies and Scientists most likely should be on the list since they are mentioned in the rules elsewhere. In the Combat Values chart how about adding Disruptors, Torpedo Tubes, and Pulse Cannons? Armored Tanks, Assault Tanks, and Pulsar Tanks all seem to be missing their Long Range Combat Factors. Also the chart might look a little better in a portrait mode instead of landscape. Appendix L - Standard Actions The Space Probe orders seem to have been left out of both the Ship and Colony Actions. Well that's it for now. <g> Kerry ------------------------------ From: PROTHORAX@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 15:14:40 -0400 Subject: Re: BSE: Strickly Roleplaying (ooc)<g> Playing the roleplaying stance is really not that hard and a lot of fun. later david ------------------------------ From: Kerry Harrison <kerry@io.com> Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 15:14:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: BSE: More typos in the new rules The chart in Appendix E - Starship Classes, the Designation for a Searcher (class 29) should be SR since SE is already used for Scout Explorers (class 33); the Designation for a Corsair (class 41) should be CR since CO is already used for Corvettes (class 4). Kerry ------------------------------ From: btb4@Lehigh.EDU (B T Braun) Date: Mon, 01 May 1995 16:21:43 EDT Subject: Re: BSE: BSE version 5.0 rules released Kerry, What screwed up version of PKWare was used to ZIP the file? I have about 6 versions of PKUNZIP available - none recognize this file. Oh yeah, can you send a C/PM Wordstar 1.5.2a (Pre April '83 update) version, too? Be seeing you, Brad Braun btb4@lehigh.edu ///////////////////*********************************************\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ But you don't seem to understand. I fully expect to reign in Heaven. After all, is it not better to be a live lion? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ------------------------------ From: "JASON GOFF" <JGOF4P1@S1.csc.peachnet.edu> Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 15:34:33 EST Subject: BSE: korondite coating Colony SSL Arkham is in the process of acquiring korondite coating technology. For anyone who doesn't know, this gives a ship the equivelant of 200 jammers, and takes 50 TU's and 1 MU of korondite. This coating does not wear off during upgrades. Anyone interested in korondite coating at SSL Arkham should contact Minister Goldfarb (aka Rich Ostlie 161 Lago Vista Blvd, Casselberry, FL 32707) for his individual pricing policy. ------------------------------ From: RTGThad@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 17:36:25 -0400 Subject: Re: BSE: New Rules...Problem You should plan on picking whatever specialization you would normally pick as if there was not going to be any changes to the combat system at all. We understand the necessity to conform the new combat system to the existing game, so let us fret and rip our hair out over trying to do that. Thad ------------------------------ From: RTGThad@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 17:55:49 -0400 Subject: Re: BSE: Questions about the ... <Whew>. Well, that's not so bad <I was frightened by the message topic> <g>. Let's see: Maintenance: Possible, I'll check with Pete, but hey, a Class 5 maintenace is an awful long time anyway. Block Scans got the ax for programming considerations, among other things <VERY difficult to do with out all the data on disk, which we don't have> Promotions once every four months, minimum. System Array reports are now free. Surface Movement did get cut in half TU cost wise. Check the formula, I tacked a *.5 onto the end of the expression. New Agent actions: Just find out te number of tanks and stuff. I am pretty sure that CyMind Disrupters go in command. OK with me on limiting them to Command ships. Scientists will be very rare and few and far between. Got me where you get them .. that's the bonus for keeping an eye open for em they could come from anywhere. I don't think allowing them on Colonial Transports is an isse, there won't beenough of them to fill up a ship <g> Affiliation technology is out, period, except for what already exists. Item listing: We must have missed those items, but I could have sworn we didn't. I'll look into the Morale Gains chart and see what can be added. Right now the max values are the same <although the limit on 100 morale is gone>. The RIP is a government cuz they ain't a company. I don't know, are the AIS active? Combat Values did not list many things on purpose cause they ain't common items in my view. But I'll look at it again. OK, will add Space Probe as well. Thad ------------------------------ From: ccharnle@m-net148.arbornet.org (Chip Charnley) Date: Mon, 1 May 95 18:22 WET DST Subject: Re: BSE: BSE version 5.0 rules released Please supply either case law reference or specific law citings to support your contention that electronic authorization is acceptable and will stand up in a court of law. Chip > >>While an electronic message would probably work, in most states and under >>federal law, it is not yet legally binding (or so I am told). > >>As I said before, I think RTG's INTENTION is clear. Unfortunately, in the >>case of CIS, the directives are also clear. For the rest, like you, you must >>make your own decisions. I only pointed it out so that you could make an >>informed decision. > >>Chip > >Copy right laws are FEDERAL laws. State laws do not apply. Electronic >authorization is acceptable. > >Joe > > > ------------------------------ From: ccharnle@m-net148.arbornet.org (Chip Charnley) Date: Mon, 1 May 95 18:22 WET DST Subject: Re: BSE: BSE version 5.0 rules released No, electronic mail does not hold up well in court as 'written'. It is currently too easy to fake. However, with the use of public key encryption/certification software, this is being dealt with. One state, I believe Utah, has laws on the books to deal with this and several others are working on them. The Feds are also dinking around with something. Chip >Chip, > >Are you not recognizing email as "written"? Thad pretty clearly indicated >that he wanted Kerry to make the rules available in the net. > >Be seeing you, > >Brad Braun >btb4@lehigh.edu >///////////////////*********************************************\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > But you don't seem to understand. I fully expect to reign in Heaven. After > all, is it not better to be a live lion? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > > > ------------------------------ From: Kerry Harrison <kerry@io.com> Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 17:56:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: BSE: Questions about the ... On Mon, 1 May 1995 RTGThad@aol.com wrote: > <Whew>. Well, that's not so bad <I was frightened by the message topic> <g>. Hehe, overall I'm pleased with the new rules - I just have a few things to nitpick to make them better IMO. > Maintenance: Possible, I'll check with Pete, but hey, a Class 5 maintenace is > an awful long time anyway. It's all relative, kinda hard to go on those really LONG missions when you have to pull into port to due an overhaul every year - say Class 6 (20 TU's, 50 Weeks), Class 7 (10 TU's, 60 Weeks), and Class 8 (10 TU's, 70 Weeks)? > Block Scans got the ax for programming considerations, among other things > <VERY difficult to do with out all the data on disk, which we don't have> Bummer. > Surface Movement did get cut in half TU cost wise. Check the formula, I > tacked a *.5 onto the end of the expression. Blimey missed it. I was expecting the vehicle movement rates to be lowered instead of the fomula being changed. > New Agent actions: Just find out te number of tanks and stuff. Argh, I don't care how many blooming tanks the snacks, er colonies have I just looking for a rough idea of their ground or space combat abilities. > I am pretty sure that CyMind Disrupters go in command. OK with me on limiting > them to Command ships. Hmm, both the blurb I got fro you on them and the entry in the Item Stats list shows they go in main, sides it'll give C&C ships something else to carry in main. > Scientists will be very rare and few and far between. Got me where you get > them .. that's the bonus for keeping an eye open for em they could come from > anywhere. I don't think allowing them on Colonial Transports is an isse, > there won't beenough of them to fill up a ship <g> Okay, okay. Question shouldn't Bulk Transport also exclude the items from Entertainment to give more incentive for the existing for this special? > Affiliation technology is out, period, except for what already exists. Argh! Is it any easier (or even possible) to create a master tape of a tech if one already has the master tape in thier possession (i.e. duping a tape)? How does one go about making new common tech items? (I can think of several good reasons for doing such things). > I'll look into the Morale Gains chart and see what can be added. Right now > the max values are the same <although the limit on 100 morale is gone>. A 100 is no longer the max limit on a colonies' morale? What about ships & GPs? > The RIP is a government cuz they ain't a company. Gee, what a bi-polar universe we must inhabit - just governments & companies huh? <g> > I don't know, are the AIS active? Either that are you GM-types are having fun with them due to all of the neat AIS thingys that are now showing up on the item list <g>. Oh, yeah, something old that go left - in Chap. 6, Ground Combat, the section about Capturing Another Position - the last paragraph mentions stellars and stock - maybe the stock part should be deleted (or yet introduce some stock rules <G>). Are depot colonies still going to show up in the game? If so which colonies are they going to be? Kerry ------------------------------ From: "Hendrick,Bill;=9462771" <BHENDRICK@kean.ucs.mun.ca> Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 00:16:49 +0200 (IST) Subject: Re: BSE: Baghdad On Fri, 28 Apr 1995, Todd D. Clapp wrote: > Mine Yield = 37.5 MUs/mine > location = Bobalu > 75k M/NM stockpiled > > still interested? > > Josh > > Josh I have been looking over your offer and I have a few further questions. How many mines are at the present site? Are they all included in the deal? Bill ------------------------------ From: "Richard A. Loutzenheiser" <76311.2317@compuserve.com> Date: 01 May 95 22:46:19 EDT Subject: BSE:New Rules Can a research colony acquire a ship specialization tech and then transfer it to another colony to use? Are ship specializations like other techs and only the 1st gets it and the rest "reverse engineer" or are they different? If ship specialization techs can be transferred does that mean that after I upgrade my shipyard can I sell the tech tape to another colony? WHY CAN'T A TECH BECOME A NEW AFFILATION WIDE TECHNOLOGY?!!!!!!! I predict that no one will research consumer goods. Since the techs can not be sold they will be of extremely limited use. Afterall none of really like to have to haul things all the time and these goods by there very nature are consumable. I suppose one could sell the items at outrageous prices, knowing that they would be reversed engineered, but I think that the tech transfer rules will impede research along these lines. Does anybody have the tech to make entertainment modules? How about to condense metals, fissionables or fossil fuels? Can the condensed minerals be used or do they have to be uncondensed? The rules seem less than clear here. I am fuzzy on Affiliation loyalty. I new ship has a very high aff loyalty and therefore will likely not change affiliations, but this same green crew will go off and die attacking a hiport because their aff loyalty is high. This doesn't make sense. Shouldn't they be required to have a low aff loyalty (and therefore a high shipcaptain loyalty) in order to do suicidal things. I like the towing rules, colosseums and mass transit. Dick ------------------------------ End of BSE Digest V195 #165 *************************** To subscribe to bse-digest, send the command: subscribe bse-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@io.com". To unsubscribe from the bse-digest send the command: unsubscribe bse-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@io.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-bse-list": subscribe bse-digest local-bse-list@your.domain.net A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "bse-digest" in the commands above with "bse-list". Up