Quest Digest 7/5/95 From: ">>-Josh->" <J.P.Gallagher@durham.ac.uk> Date: Sun, 07 May 1995 00:00:00 +0000 ____________________________________________________________________ | | | THE QUEST DIGEST | | The forum for the E-mailing Quest-players | | Compiled by Josh Gallagher: J.P.Gallagher@durham.ac.uk | | Date: 7th May 1995 | |____________________________________________________________________| o This is not an automatically generated compilation, so if all contributions could be sent to me in a seperate e-mail with paragraphs initialled, I would appreciate it a lot. o Please do not use this list for your own purposes; people do not appreciate thousands of pieces of mail arriving a day! o If you ever want taking off the list, just say, and I will be happy to do so. I don't want telling off for any nuisance mail! o All material here is the exclusive property of the author and may not be used elsewhere without their permission. JPG> Greetings all, and welcome to yet another digest. As I have nothing useful to say at this juncture... on with the messages! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quest Helpline service. This helpline is chaired a by a panel of experienced Quest players, who will be available to answer any queries or solve any problems to do with Quest. Send e-mail to <godfrey2@cov.ac.uk> and give "Quest help" as the subject line. Contact me if you want to join the panel. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bv@bigblue.no (B. Vermo) Date: Thu, 04 May 1995 16:23:25 +0200 bv> I am all in favour of improving cities in several ways. *>CMD> Lastly, although we may no longer be discussing aligned cities in the *>Digest I wrote a letter to KJC last year with some details of how to improve the feel of realism in the game. I was not thinking along the lines of aligning cities to gods, exactly, but rather to more or less law and order, more or less strict rules or laissez-faire. Stronger or weaker city militia and guards, more or less private security forces. I cannot see how this should be too challenging for a competent programmer unless the code in Quest is as bad as I sometimes fear it is. *>SF> Not that it's any consolation but, Network space permitting, I'll be adding *>routines which keep an entire copy of your previous turn stored on the network *>until a couple of weeks, or your next turn is processed. At 35Kb a turn, this *>may be a bit optimistic in terms of our available storage space. Now, really! How stingy can you be when you run so many games with so many users? At 35KB per turn, you can store 28571 turns per gigabyte. A 5-GB disk has a very good price/performance these days. Storing old turns will cost about 1p per player per gameturn stored. My idea for moderating play around towns while still allowing it to take place even inside a city, is to have the city guards intervene. The more law and order in the city, the sooner they react. They will be reluctant to intervene outside the walls, but if somebody start a major fight just outside they could make a sally. Being trained formation fighters, they should be able to subdue and drive away even very tough parties. They will of course have polearms, and will in formation appear to have a VERY efficient armour but not too high weapons skill. Outside the city, they drive aggressive groups away from the city. Inside, they can evict or arrest groups depending on the city and the severity of the disturbance. Arrested groups are fined and then evicted. To curb the use of miracles, I suggest that all temples have a zone of influence. Temples could boost same alignment spells somewhat and adjacent alignment spells a little, and dampen opposite alignment spells somewhat and adjacent to opposite spells a little. The boost effect should decrease by the square of the distance, while the damping effect should decrease in a linear fashion. Each suburb inside the city is counted as a different location, so a temple in the centre is a distance of 2 from any square next to the city. The spell dampening should not be in effect more than two squares outside the city, while the boost should effectively only work in the temple suburb and the ones adjacent to it. This computation need only be made once for each fight. One of the problems with most games is the unrealistic predictability. If weather was introduced to Quest, it could affect movement and sighting distances somewhat. Rain would also wash out tracks. This should be fairly simple to implement, and could be added in gradually. It would add an unknown to movement rate, especially off roads, and might open up a new area for low-level magic and miracles. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 05 May 1995 21:25:07 From: dynamic@dynamic.DIALix.oz.au (Peter Read) G'day Gentlemen, With all the flack that KJC are receiving, I must jump in to the defence of PBM Companies. When humans are involved, there are bound to be problems and we must expect them. Several points come to mind :- Someone complained that Kevin is making good money out of Quest. Sure he is, and so am I - it's a reward we eventually receive for years of dedication to the PBM industry. If we couldn't make a profit, how long would we stay in business? The profit a GM makes from one game is frequently paid out in programmers wages to produce more games. Where did the money come from to develop Quest in the first place. I would hate to count the thousands of dollars I have paid out to get 'The Ultimate Game' written only to find out it is a load of rubbish and no one likes it. Who pays for the costs? All GM's I know don't work a regular 9 - 5 job. My working hours are 9am to 11pm, and I receive players calls during those hours. Isn't it fair that we receive some payment for the extra hours we spend? No, I'm not complaining about the time I spend working - I love my job, but it's still great to get paid. Inputter errors are another problem. Many times it is the player who is at fault, but it is easer to blame the inputter than to face up to the problem yourself. The worst turn cards come from players who have been playing for a while and think they know the order format off by heart. I get heaps of B 5 611 54 or maybe A 3 or H 2 119 5. If the inputter is an experienced gamer, they correct the problems and you wouldn't even realise you had made an error. When an experienced inputter leaves a company, what does the GM do? Put on three to replace him and then fire the worst two, or do you put on one and try to train them up to standard. Poor response to phone calls. The worst thing about PBM are the players. I spend a lot of time giving answers to questions that could be found in the rule book, but players think it is easier to phone the GM for the answer. Frequently the calls are when I am busy trying to get turns processed so what do I do? Hold off processing to answer questions or give a short answer and get back to work? I have a lot of other comments but I'll get off my soap box before this gets too long. Unfortunately, things do go wrong and it seem that when one thing goes wrong, a dozen things go wrong at the same time. Please players, we know we have problems occasionally and no matter what you think, our main aim is to provide the best service we can. Regards Peter Read. GM of Dynamic Games in Australia. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 12:44:10 +0100 (BST) From: Lord of Spoons <A.O.Hooper@herts.ac.uk> AH> In the last Digest a lot of people mentioned that KJC are not all *that* bad. I agree they are still good but not up to the standards they were two or so years ago (or four, when I first played Quest). Back then when you pointed out a bug, imput error or spelling mistake you got a little bit at the bottom of the printout saying they read your note and what they had done about it. I'll look at some of my old printouts and see which inputter used to do these notes...as none today seem to care. Still I shall now bow out for a while and leave things to sort themselves out now KJC know of the problem......but my latest PP did have a spelling error. > CMD> I'd like to know what other fantasy PBMs people play and how they > compare to Quest. AH> My brother wrote a Crisis style PBM which we used to play with a group of friends - you know nuke's, forts, paratroops etc. Quest however is very complex by the very nature of the number of objects, which would make it a right sod to program. > DS> And finally to Roj. You must have an arse full of splinters from > sitting on that fence so hard!!! AH> The Jolly Green Dragons have become a whole lot less jolly recently.....and not just in their attitude <G>. I wonder which books Roj has read..... > especially when > certain situations force me to decide between whats best and > what they would do, I think I'm succeeding in doing so but it is > hard. AH> Tell me about it - I'm debating with myself if I should steal from another group (who seem to be quite young) with Skulking Vermin in G14. There are supposed to be the most cretinous toads on Kharne but still....enemies already? I dunno... > PN> While I'm quoting this bit I'd just like to say that my > mailing was the result of an extreme bad mood/day and I really > should have withdrawn the mail. Sorry. AH> I did this too - I was in a right mood when I had my go at Call Monster a couple of Digests back and should have withdrawn that one - a case of pre-coursework-stress-disorder (PCSD). < stuff about weapon skills deleted> AH> I think this is already taken into account. For example a new group gains weapon skill easily in any fight and can self train to 40 so-so (for fighters anyway). Then it becomes harder to learn in combat until at around 80+ I have hardly ever had a characters weapon skill go up except through buying training. > > CC> No idea. Why, do you have HRP-only alliance? > PN> no it isn't, we just like them on a whopping slice of toast. > (JPG spots the beginnings of Dwarf throwing, or whatever it was, again.) AH> I'm trying to restart the Unicorn thing in G3 but no-one else seems to be joining in...yet - time to write some letter to evil ally's <cackle cackle> > All that is left to say, again, is.. Happy Questing people! Oh, and that > mage recruits with only a skill of 42 suck. :-( AH> Alright, I have to come clean - the best mage I have ever recruited had 48sk. Yes I do offer 1000+ gp's and I have done 20+ recruit orders for EM's and still no joy. So be thankfull it wasn't a 38sk mage (but with wonderfull other stats - not that it compensates much) I had turn up :( <sob sniffle>. JPG> Hmmm.. have you been trying Luck of Novala? I was advised not to get a mage with a skill of below 50, and I only offer 1001 or 1099 for mages.. admittedly I have only ever had one offer of above 50, but he makes a very nice addition to the part. :-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ewan Jones" <c1ej@dmu.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 05 May 1995 12:49:12 BST EJ Just a couple of points on official alliances, I noticed that plus 3 armour costs 108,000 to buy (in a 20 for hq only) and yet I was under the impression hq`s could only hold 100,000. It`s not that I would want to spend 108,000 on plus 3 armour but how would you buy it? Another thing, I noticed last turn when I forgot to pay my 11,000 gold into the bank that as I was in the city with our hq in I wasn`t robbed by the kjc thieves, good or what! What happens if you build another hq and you fall below the 5 members per hq needed, will you get the money back or not? EJ Going back to the point about errors, I haven`t had that many major errors in nearly 3 years of playing but sather loads and loads of minor ones, especially with stuff like rumour cards, character names etc.. I appreciate that KJC get hundreds of turncards a day but they really should take more time to look at what they are typing in, for example there have been rumours in the newspaper on the lines of "it is rumoured kjc don`t look at what they are typing" etc... EJ I could be wrong but I am sure that you can recruit recruits on your next turn (the turn after they were offered) whenever you send the turn in, even if you miss a game week out. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 13:07:36 +0100 (BST) From: "C.H.E.B." <ctc@coventry.ac.uk> CC> That questionnaire is a bit simplictic. How about turn performance over a month? JPG> The questionnaire was meant to be simple, and easy to follow/reply to so that people weren't put off answering it. Also, as stated in the questionnaire (as far as I remember!) it was intended to be replied to 3 times, for your next 3 turns. I will send the questionnaire out again in a few days, if I remember. Could I take this opportunity to ask all KJC players to fill it in, please. It shouldn't take 5 minutes... CC> My account has been credited with my lost turn (thanks, KJC) although I'd still prefer the turn for sentimental reasons. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: NP Olver <np-olver@csm.uwe.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 15:21:46 +0100 (BST) NPO> I got my turn through today.... I had ordered my thief Rob Daman to take a shot at a Jewellers, with 2 lucks and a Novala spirit as backup of course! Well I can report he did good... 1572 gold (approx) and an azimure gem. Pretty good seeing as his record was 390 gold until then. I'm just wondering that to spend it all on? NPO> Does anybody out there, know of any Quest WWW sites.... If there isn't any, I have a very small amount of stuff on my home page and I would like more!!!! At the moment there is nothing of interest to people who aren't in game six. So bloody well send me your stuff so there will be! I would very much Like to have that FAQ on there Chris I shall be putting more stuff from my own collection on as I get round to it, Univ. work is a bit tight at the moment. Hey Steafan check out the game6 Island map....... Just don't get annoyed with Simon okay ;-) and you can hurry up and implement quest in your home page :) JPG> I believe Frank Maximus was doing something about a Quest page... Frank? _______________________________________________________________ |* \|/ Chaos is the way of the World! *| | --*-- Nik Olver. Email: np-olver@uwe.ac.uk | |*___/|\___http://zen.btc.uwe.ac.uk/~np-olver/Welcome.html___*| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The URL... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 17 Oct 20 09:19:46 GMT From: Dave Rees <chaos@thanes.demon.co.uk> DR> CC> No idea. Why, do you have HRP-only alliance? No we feast on honey roast peasant for tea! All members are expected to feast on ex-enemy adventurers killed in battle. If it's been a lean time peasants have to do. The trouble is buying the honey in the first place, no shops seem to sell it. (Could be time for a new item?) Dave > Dean Yeah right from what I've seen of your crew in action they're as bad as our lot. Wanna join forces and destroy the entire world? No I don't want it back, I've got another set thanks. Sorry about the cash the 28000 gold I've got is sitting in the bank where it's safe from the likes of 'Good' groups likes yerself. (0% FF but then what do you expect from a 12 member mage group?) DR> KH Just because you think it's a great game doesn't mean everyone does. Quest is very good to start with. I used to be a nervous wreck waiting for the postie with my questies. Today it just isn't the same. The only thing of interest is to see if the group's had a Battle. We want more in the game and if we sit in the corner and say nothing, NOTHING will be done. The reason I still play is I have an alliance of nearly 40 members now, I get a lot of enjoyment out of their letters and creating an interesting newsletter every month. Yes quest does give good results for the money, but that doesn't mean that it's good, does it? Computer code is worth nothing. Once it's written and inserted into the main code, it costs KJC very little. Fine, Quest does have a lot to offer. Come back and tell me in 100 turns time that quest has something to offer. I'm there and there is very little bar combat, believe me. So you haven't had a mis-type yet, aren't you lucky. You'll be saying different when a 'G' order gets typed in as a 'H' order and no gold goes in the bank but into the hands of the local thieves. When you get 3 turns on the trot with wrong orders then I think you have a good right to whinge. I do agree somewhat on text slicing routines. They are a bitch to write. I would love to, I have shed loads of ideas, it's just the physical limitations of myself and my system. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 12:57:50 +0200 From: Finn Theodorsen <theodor@diku.dk> FET> About ASL. I have just fought 5 (unwounded) Gt. Beetles totalling 300 hits (60 each). My own party had 329 hits (before the fight!!!). This DID activate an ASL of 3, but did NOT activate the ASL of 4. The monsters probably have to have more hits than you to provoke an ASL 4 casting. FET> About wanted changes in Quest. I would appreciate more common sense from my spellcasters. Slumber/Charm/Confusion etc. doesn't work on "mindless" monsters (like Gt.Beetles), but nonetheless - every time in run into these beasts my spellcasters insist on making the same mistakes again and again and again. They should learn that a certain combina- tion of spell and monsters is no use and let it be. They don't use anti-undead spells on non-undead monsters (even though this spell is top-priority), why can't the same be true for mind-affecting spells against mindless foes?? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- JPG> Keep the stuff coming in folks... Until next time, happy questing, and good luck with exams and revision for those who have them... >>-Josh-> "Dreamer... Nothing but a dreamer..." Up