BSE Digest v195 #174 From: kerry@io.com (Kerry Harrison) Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 00:00:00 +0000 BSE Digest Monday, 8 May 1995 Volume 195 : Number 174 Welcome to the BSE Digest, the place to discuss all the myriad aspects of life Beyond the Stellar Empire with other denizens of the Greater Periphery. In this issue: + BSE: Re: BSE :Research Rules + Re: BSE: Re: BSE :Research Rules + Re: BSE: Research problems (BOUNCED MESSAGE) + Re: BSE: IND Baseship + BSE: Re: Battle at Hammerfest + Re: BSE: IND Baseship + BSE: building ship types + BSE: Ranks & Promotions -Reply + BSE: Research + Re: BSE: Re: BSE :Research Ru... + Re: BSE: Re: BSE :Research Ru... + Re: BSE: Wedding Bells + BSE: IND Baseship + BSE: Message from RTG + RE: BSE: Message from RTG + Re: BSE: Research Rules + BSE: Cargo Carrier Bids Update 5 + Re: BSE: Research problems See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the bse-list or bse-digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jstanton@qualcomm.com (John Stanton) Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 12:52:19 -0700 Subject: BSE: Re: BSE :Research Rules Chip, First off I'll say that I understand your concerns with the rules on research and that there are some things that you think should be handled differently. Me too, and I bet that everyone has certain disagreements with the rules. But I bet that RTG is not in the mood to make programming changes right now, if things prove unworkable in the future I bet that they will change them at that time. I am willing to try at the rules as-is and see how they work. I hope that they consider BSE a work in progress, where corrections can be made at some future date. Having said that, I think that there are some questions you raise that RTG can answer to help clear things up a bit: 1) What kind of points are used for feasibility studies? 4) Where does BHT stuff fit in research-wise, general tech? 7) Does strion increase research points per factory? There are in-game ways to handle most of the other problems that you mention. Thinking up those solutions are part of the fun of the game. It is true that research will not be an easy thing to do, but should it be? Izac Neutin would be a good space combat research colony -- just crank out 10000 mines and you will be in business. And with the occasional Cargo Carrier full of PT for general research points you will be a truely excellent research colony. At least you got a response;} Best, John ------------------------------ From: ccharnle@m-net148.arbornet.org (Chip Charnley) Date: Mon, 8 May 95 18:38 WET DST Subject: Re: BSE: Re: BSE :Research Rules > There are in-game ways to handle most of the other problems that you >mention. Thinking up those solutions are part of the fun of the game. It is >true that research will not be an easy thing to do, but should it be? Izac >Neutin would be a good space combat research colony -- just crank out 10000 >mines and you will be in business. And with the occasional Cargo Carrier >full of PT for general research points you will be a truely excellent >research colony. > John, You're kidding right? Your suggestion means that I get to spend 103 weeks producing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING BUT MINES. That sounds like such great fun. I'm sure that my colony morale will go up all on it's own due to such production. I'm sure that the colonists will practice 100% birth control so that we don't need any new farms during that nearly TWO YEAR period. And I'm sure that my current defenses will be more than adequate TWO YEARS from now. I don't mind having to work at being successful but I re-joined this game to do exploration and research. With these research rules, I can't do ANY research for 2 years and anything I happen to find in two years of exploration gets to sit in a warehouse until two years from now when I can START to try to figure out what it is. That sounds like so much fun. I'm glad all of you war-mongers got the new rules you wanted. I guess BSE is doomed to become nothing but a war-game. I really thought it could get back to it's former glory but if *I* am the only one who seems to care about the research rules being USEABLE, I doubt it will make it. Frustratedly yours, Chip Charnley ------------------------------ From: ccharnle@m-net148.arbornet.org (Chip Charnley) Date: Mon, 8 May 95 18:38 WET DST Subject: Re: BSE: Research problems (BOUNCED MESSAGE) >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: SBach11@aol.com >Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 00:53:37 -0400 >Subject: Re: BSE: Research problems > >Chip- > Maybe this will help. If you read my message to Charles Meredith >about missing the boat...well this one hasn't arrived yet. >People are just happy to have the rules and now they want a little fun before >getting back too it. The problem you mentioned will be OK for months and can >be dealt with at case level till the full scope of research problems >materializes in the game. > Like that 3 hour session we had at the Atlanta Origins for the Orion >Neb. players and only discussed outposts!...it was Origins... >that was about the most boring time there. Not that it didn't need to be >done...but its a timing thing. Steve > > > Steve, At this point I don't understand you message at all. What is it that you think will be OK for months and can be dealt with on a case level? The primary problem is that, for the most part, YOU CAN'T DO RESEARCH CAUSE YOU CAN'T SUPPLY THE MATERIALS TO 'MAKE IT"! How is that going to change over the next few months? Chip ------------------------------ From: "Hendrick,Bill;=9462771" <BHENDRICK@kean.ucs.mun.ca> Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 20:18:52 +0200 (IST) Subject: Re: BSE: IND Baseship Does anyone know whose yacht was destoyed? There probably wasn't much left of it. Bill ------------------------------ From: Michael.Keane@maf.nasa.gov Date: 08 May 95 16:08:25 -0600 Subject: BSE: Re: Battle at Hammerfest On Sat, 06 May LUDENDORF@delphi.com sent: >United Press Intergalactic - News Release > >Hammerfest, Northcape system. wk: 17-195 > >With the impending arrival of the AFT boarding party transports, the demon >Baseship, IND Headhunter (2431), crippled, and trapped in orbit, elected to >commit suicide. Specifically targeting the ISP Kronprinz (1662), it unleashed <snip> >Joe Bob Briggs >UPI News. No wonder you work for UPI News, long on detail (supplied my the IMP's), short on depth, and a few IMP propaganda lines thrown in for good measure. No demons were involved in the attack in any way, shape, or form. Human mercenaries carried out the (unsurprisingly poor) attack. The IMP's to date have kill only other inept humans and a few brave (if fool-hardy) Celtians. They are allowing the FOE forces on the ground to withdraw with no interference. Tells you a lot about how 'eager' they are for a real fight. Research better and die educated. V'Ril T'Bak, Ruler FOE Target ------------------------------ From: Cojran Michael <cojran@ucsub.Colorado.EDU> Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 18:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: BSE: IND Baseship The Yacht was AFT. The AFT was the only AFF on the BS's enemy list. Zed Thunder ------------------------------ From: jstanton@qualcomm.com (John Stanton) Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 17:37:58 -0700 Subject: BSE: building ship types Thad, Is it possible under the new rules to license ship building technology? For example affiliation A can build Battleships and wants to license that tech to colony B for 8 weeks, can you licence that kind of tech? What kind of ships can the companies build? How do we know? Will it show up on the colony or affiliation tech list? John ------------------------------ From: PKRAUSKOPF@FALCON.AL.WPAFB.AF.MIL Date: Mon, 08 May 1995 08:32:34 -0400 Subject: BSE: Ranks & Promotions -Reply I agree with what Shannon says in his email message regarding promotions. Base on what he said, it appears that what the RTG rank structure is really a reflection of a starcaptain's "experience." At this point, the ONLY place where experience is reflected is in battle. Hence, these "promotions-reflecting-experience" should, indeed, be based on battle experience, and not on anyhting else. After all, even if you earn 100,000,000,000,000 stellars (the dream of every AFTer), your ability in battle will not improve one iota. Although, I am somewhat attracted to the idea of having categories of experience levels (trade, research, exploration, etc) which may affect your abilities in each area. In this case, each starcaptain would have to have several "ranks" indicating experience in each area. Phil K. ------------------------------ From: PKRAUSKOPF@FALCON.AL.WPAFB.AF.MIL Date: Mon, 08 May 1995 08:53:45 -0400 Subject: BSE: Research I think we need to keep in mind, too, exactly what RTG was trying to do by requiring all these minerals for research. They are trying to find uses for raw materials. However, instead of putting the requirements in the research end of things, why not put them into the production end of things. Perhaps each "area" of research would have several special resources that could be used to decrease the research level. Thus, perhaps, by requiring 5 proc thorlium in the production of some ground combat item, the researcher might be able to lower the research class by one level. For projects whose output wouldn't be a specific item, perhaps, there should be a final phase of research that requires these types of items. Phil K. ------------------------------ From: SBach11@aol.com Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 20:50:19 -0400 Subject: Re: BSE: Re: BSE :Research Ru... Chip- Thing about us war mongers....winning, losing, love us or hate us....we're a team. The days of one man make a big difference warmongers went out with the unlimited fleet rules. (Delta Empire anyone?) Today, your a team or your little guy. Thats the way it is...adapt or die. Now you want to do big things with one colony right. Well I say there are alot of larger colonies in the game today. Now your one may do market rec. or space probes but if you want to do large game effecting starship mods and what not, then YOUR gonna need a team. Now what an entire AFF. or a conglomerate of colonies on the same planet can do, via specializing colonies and tayloring the planet or AFF, is another story. Don't think the QSN, IMP and the rest aren't already figuring out how. If one colony could produce one reasonable gane affecting tech per year, and there are alot of large colonies out there, I'd be screaming bloody murder. If it takes all the research types of an AFF working together or a whole planet...so be it....good. You can explore at the same time. Sure there are some problems yet but for the most part I like research to be difficult. Thats the way it is .....if you want to do big research then YOUR gonna need a team now too....now its your turn... ....adapt or die. A BSE Warmonger...and proud. P.S> At this time I'd like to coin the phrase..."research dweeb" <g> ------------------------------ From: ccharnle@m-net148.arbornet.org (Chip Charnley) Date: Mon, 8 May 95 21:26 WET DST Subject: Re: BSE: Re: BSE :Research Ru... 1) I know all about teams in BSE. The ability for ONE player to turn the course of the game was gone in the early 80's. The DE made a significant difference but the CPR would never have succeeded on the back of the DE alone. And you should look in to what Greg Stafford and I with the assistance of about 5 others did after the destruction of the DE. Again, that was a team effort and we did a lot. That's not to mention what the IMP 'team' did before the CPR. That IMP database that everyone passes around these days. You know who put a lot of that together? The IMP team of which I was a part. Larry Kuderick and I may have collated and published it but it took a large team effort to collect it all. 2) The whole research concept as implemented MAY work. I said at the outset that I couldn't SEE how it would work because it did not appear to me that there was a) the shipping capacity to support it and b) (although less clearly stated) the incentive for people to haul all those raw materials. SOme discussions with Thad this evening have opened my eyes to some facts that I did not know or believe to be true such that maybe a) is not an issue. I still think b) is but we'll see. I can certainly say that Izac Neutin is in poor enough shape that I don't know what it possibly has that can be offered for those raw materials. Perhaps others are in better shape. We'll see. 3) I chose to show how difficult it would be for IzN to do it on it's own because I HAD the figures and working with one colony was much easier than working with multiple colonies. However, the numbers stand, It doesn't matter whether the stuff is produced at one or multiple colonies. The difference is that if it is at multiple colonies, then you have to have shipping. Shipping becomes the key. Someone is going to have to prove to me that the shipping exists to support any significant level of research. That level of shipping capacity has never existed in BSE in the past either when I was playing or while I was out and watching. However, things can change. Since Thad seems determined not to make any public comment or make any changes in the foreseeable future, I guess we'll just have to hope that he is right. Chip ------------------------------ From: LUDENDORF@delphi.com Date: Mon, 08 May 1995 22:00:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: BSE: Wedding Bells Todd, Shannon (MYR) lives in Phoenix area. Check with him about the various internet providers in that area. Steve ------------------------------ From: LUDENDORF@delphi.com Date: Mon, 08 May 1995 22:00:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: BSE: IND Baseship > And was the report "After trying to flee and having no engines" generated > because of damage to Engine (which wasn't that much) or were his orders > to flee on round two? Mike, That message only appears after you've cleaned out the engines. You might want to check the SOL that hit the engine section to see if it had disable fire set to hull or internal. I agree with Jack, that the ship was unarmored. ISP Kronprinz, fully armored, only took 1500 mu of actual damage, from the 5600 that hit it. This lack of armor cost him. His orders weren't to flee on round 2, because the battle report would've read: "fled from the battle because the starcaptain elected to do so on this round." Steve ------------------------------ From: PKRAUSKOPF@FALCON.AL.WPAFB.AF.MIL Date: Mon, 08 May 1995 12:36:32 -0400 Subject: BSE: Message from RTG I talked to Thad today, and he wanted me to post a message to you guys ( "y'all" for you Texans) that they are continuing to read the email, but are very snowed under right now. They are not ignoring everyone's comments; rather, they will answer them in the near future. Phil K. ------------------------------ From: scragg@infi.net Date: Tue, 9 May 95 11:03:01 PDT Subject: RE: BSE: Message from RTG > I talked to Thad today, and he wanted me to post a >message to you guys ( "y'all" for you Texans) that >they are continuing to read the email, but are very >snowed under right now. Thad: If your reading this, stop goofing off and get back to work processing our turns! hehehehe Soooo, ya wanted to run a PBM game for a living ehhh?!! Later Joe P.S. Don't worry, I think it's human nature to complain when things change. It will pass. ------------------------------ From: Kerry Harrison <kerry@io.com> Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 22:22:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: BSE: Research Rules On Fri, 5 May 1995, Chip Charnley wrote: > General 8125 METS/NMETS > 3250 Fossil Fuels > 3250 Processed Thorlium(Know anyone that can supply & > ship THAT on a weekly basis! > The RSCH colony can't make it!) Yes - actually the WCE could easily do this yourselves if y'all invest in some more mines and factories for a little WCE colony called Arden and a PFM Merchantman or two (or QSN Cargomasters if you rather). > Ground Combat Weaponry 32500 METS/NMETS > 32500 Fossil Fuels > 16250 PROC. THOR (Let alone this much!) This is a bit much production-wise - maybe the SMS could produce it? As for hauling it that's not that difficult - any group with a decent shipping capacity could do so. Kerry ------------------------------ From: Kerry Harrison <kerry@io.com> Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 22:29:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: BSE: Cargo Carrier Bids Update 5 No changes from update 4. Reminder May 10th is the last day of the auction. ------------------------------ From: PROTHORAX@aol.com Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 23:40:52 -0400 Subject: Re: BSE: Research problems (ooc) I for one am intrested about research but have only now found a station that has word 6.0 on it and I currently don't have this at home?!? later david ------------------------------ End of BSE Digest V195 #174 *************************** To subscribe to bse-digest, send the command: subscribe bse-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@io.com". To unsubscribe from the bse-digest send the command: unsubscribe bse-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@io.com". 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