Quest Digest 19/5/95

From: ">>-Josh->" <J.P.Gallagher@durham.ac.uk>

Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 00:00:00 +0000

____________________________________________________________________
|                                                                    |
|                          THE QUEST DIGEST                          |
|             The forum for the E-mailing Quest-players              |
|       Compiled by Josh Gallagher: J.P.Gallagher@durham.ac.uk       |
|                        Date: 19th May 1995                         |
|____________________________________________________________________|

o This is not an automatically generated compilation, so if all
  contributions could be sent to me in a seperate e-mail with paragraphs
  initialled, I would appreciate it a lot.
o Please do not use this list for your own purposes; people do not
  appreciate thousands of pieces of mail arriving a day!
o If you ever want taking off the list, just say, and I will be happy to
  do so.  I don't want telling off for any nuisance mail!
o All material here is the exclusive property of the author and may not
  be used elsewhere without their permission.

JPG> Hi there folks!  As I write this, the rest of my class are finishing
an exam... hehe... well, I had nothing useful left to write, no point in
sticking around... plus it's given me more time to do this. :-)
Certainly hope I got the date right on this digest; it's the same one I
put on my exam papers... *grin*

JPG> Okay, so I was horribly ignored on my request about the flaming...
*grin* You know who I'm talking about (Chris)... Anyway, read on an find
out what I am prattling on about...  once you're past the Quest Helpline
advert... anyone read this any more? :-)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quest Helpline service.
This helpline is chaired a by a panel of experienced Quest players, who
will be available to answer any queries or solve any problems to do with
Quest. Send e-mail to <godfrey2@cov.ac.uk> and give "Quest help" as the
subject line. Contact me if you want to join the panel.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: NP Olver <np-olver@csm.uwe.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 00:00:12 +0100 (BST)

NPO> Has anybody had any success using Teleport One as a
defensive spell, rather than as an extra travel spell.
i.e. If I set it up as a ranked spell for my mage will it
teleport my group out of combat? I haven't heard anybody
mention it in this use before.

JPG> What puzzles me is... which way would it teleport you?  For ranked
spells, you can't specify a target.. I'd like to see this changed, and
have the default target as the opposing monster/player group.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 00:59:50 +0100 (BST)
From: Chris M Dickson <dickson.teaching@physics.oxford.ac.uk>

KH> How many other games do you know that stay interesting for two years
before becoming boring?

CMD> Well... I like It's A Crime!, and I've played 3 games from start to finish,
and want to play more. Plus, several hand-moderated games I've been in have
kept me entertained for three years and more now, and that's with service
that would appall you (turnaround: 2-3 months). The sentiments are very, very
correct ones. It's time we all tried more, different PBM games. (He said,
trying to boost world trade, and correct the UK's trade deficit...)

CMD> Perhaps we could usefully try and spend time thinking of ways for players
who have "done it all" to enjoy the game more? The obvious answers are to get
involved with a strong alliance, to help in the Quest Help Line, to consider
editing a game newsletter. That said, there are other ones. I'm nicking an
idea from my old mate RoJ here (apologies if you didn't want it made public,
Geordie Boy!) but one day RoJ intends to arm himself with lots of nice things
like sets of +3 armour, big-plus weapons, gold by the thousandful, magic items
and what not and deposit them in the bottom level of a dungeon. Then he'll
challenge other hard parties to come down and take it. However, if RoJ's
party comes across the other party, then oh dear....! Anyone got any other
toppo ideas like that?

KH> To the best of my knowledge there is NO game that is better than Quest.
Plus Quest is the least expensive game from (deleted list).

CMD> Well... blatant free plug coming up here Josh, feel free to snip it out
if you disapprove, I subscribe to the PBM magazine Flagship, and find it very
good too. This is well worth a look if you are considering trying another
PBM - it provides a complete list of all the hundreds available worldwide,
frequently comparing and reviewing them too. Quest comes in for a bit of a
bashing - admittedly, more Flagship readers have experience of it than of any
other game, but they rate it as rather mediocre in comparison with other games.
To minimise advert length, I'll ask people to contact me if they want to know
a bit more about the mag. For the record, as far as I know, El Mythico costs
one pound 60p a turn in the UK, making it cheaper than Quest for UK players?
I can understand that playing Quest with a European firm would be cheaper
than El Mythico with a UK one.

KH> But any exploration games virtually ends the moment you have explored
everything. And you would need a dozen or more programmers to extend
Quest faster than people explore it.

CMD> Excellent call, Kai! Bear in mind that the only exploration games that
are available are: Phantasmech, Quest, CrasiWorld Quest and Monster Island.
(Plus one that got flamed to pieces whose name escapes me - but apparently,
it's really bad.) Notice the Blackpool connection between these games? BTW,
I've tried Phantasmech, some good turns but more dull ones, so I dropped out
after 7 turns - I wouldn't recommend it, really.

KH> I'm sorry if I offended anybody, but I love Quest and I'm sick of all the
people complaining about things that are much worse in any other pbm game I
know. I'm not saying that Quest is perfect, its just the best there is. Live
with it or leave it!

CMD> I really appreciate you making that comment, Kai. All things considered,
I really enjoy Quest, possibly because my party is in its "mid-life" stage,
I now know what I'm doing, and what is a good idea to do with your party,
but am really developing my party so that it is "good". This is probably the
20-40 turn stage for you "old hands". This is why I still play, and very much
enjoy, Quest. I hope that you can all find ways to derive maximum enjoyment
out of Quest so that you can have some of the old-fashioned fun that I (and
obviously Kai!) am having.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: DEAN P R SHEARS <eeshears@swansea.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 11:03:31 GMT0BST

DS>Do any of you people play in Game 4?  I've just joined in the
hope of some peace and quiet for a couple of dozen turns until I get
on my feet then perhap get invovled in the alliances etc.  Can anyone
give me a run down of the politic situation in G4 as I didn't even
get a newsletter with my new team?  ** Dean waits patiently **

JPG> Om, I'd better get that Quest List updated and send it out... it's
one of those things that the longer you leave it the bigger it gets...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 11:36:37 GMT
From: editor@elbon.demon.co.uk (Paul Noble)

PN> I just got a 58 skill mage in G14.

JPG> How much for?

> SA> Selling? How many players from game six are on this mailing-list? How
> many of them do you think already are members of the Eight Gods? The non-
> members is a rarer sight, that's for sure! :-D
PN> I am sorry I accused you of misusing the digest, but the 8
GODS serve a vital purpose for the meglomaniac types and also
for the evil alliances, the 8dogs are so big and supposedly
good/neutral it means every alliance bar one is out to take the
dogs down.

PN> Lars, how come if you were so busy with homework your
couldn't fight Nalfeshnee but about 3-4 turns later you offer the
Slime Cult a fight with the same group and attempt to steal from
us with your other one. We were quite disappointed that the
Falcons didn't stick around for the punch up, What are they
scared? Scared of a group coming on 3 times as young as the
Falcons? (Slime Cult beat the Falcons of Dusk in a fair fight
with no magical assistance whatso ever, not bad for a 7 strong
30 turn old priest party) I just aquired the turn in which the
deeds occured about a week ago so my moving outta town to
Jackston had nowt to do with your attempts at bullying a very
young group. Gorkies have been Poisoned by the way. Would a load
of 8 Dog groups accidentally walked out to our fight area and
accidentally engaged us loads of times if I was there? All
coincidence you understand.

> SA> Hey, monsters can move out of the dungeon and do raids, while they LIVE
> on a dungeon level! At least it would be more challenging then the
> Accept-quest-enter-wilderness-kill-monsters-enter-town-get-reward that is
> possible to do in one turn...
PN> I think that monsters that lerk in dungeons and make forays
into the outside would be brilliant, especially if these
monsters were from a lair, it would make it more probable. At
the moment there could be a lair of cavebears outside the city
but you never see them wandering the woods, how do they get
there?
PN> Maybe the multi level ones could contain massive
armies of monsters, like loads of goblins and orcs on the first
couple of levels then Hobgoblins and ogres and near the bottom
there would be loads of Elves (drow style) with a huge monster at
the bottom who would be the mastermind behind it all. The
monsters within could make forays into the wilderness at regular
intervals, but the numbers and monster types would change.
Obviously the monster groups would have to be pretty big, like
30 or so monsters in each group.
PN> I think this would be a mental quest: A recent adventurer has
infiltrated the nearby dungeon and has reported that the force
which leads them is a Dark Seer, and it plans to send out its
armys of monsters to wreak havoc in the citys domain. What we
want is for you to enter this dungeon and kill the Dark Seer and
as many monster troops as you can. For this you will get 2000gp
each and will earn a place in the hearts of the city folk. But
beware because of the nature of this mastermind you cannot Jaunt
into it's dominion, nor exit dungeon for the Dark Seer has the
dungeon Warded.

PN> What do you think? I would be excellent and it would also
add a much needed area of Roleplay, it would make you seem more a
part of the world of Kharne, perhaps a new item, a medal could
be introduced, one for each type of these quests so you can
aquire loads of medals of honour/valour. (medals would be prized
by theives).

JPG> I mailed Paul about this... I for one thing it's an excellent idea.
This must rank as one of the features I would like to see most within the
game.

> AH> I tried to get "the words 'backstabbing' and 'bastards' come to mind"
> in Skulking Vermins PP but they ***'d out bastards. Looks like group
> names like Leather Clad Bitches can go in, as can Big Bollocks but not
> bastards - which in my dictionary means "someone underhandly cunning"
> amongst other things. Oh well.
PN> hahaha! I actually got a perfect party profile! No mistakes
except a missing ! This is the second time a ! was swapped for a
' on the battle cry, perhaps the ! determines the end of the cry
to the program? So you can't have more than 1 ! in a battle cry
and it has to be at the end. Is this feasable?

PN> If the group can be called Psyco Deth Bastards, surely the
Bastards refers to themselves thus not really all that
offensive, if the PDB can get away with it in a group name why
not in PP? I know Lambs of Phyloqure were knocked back for
battle cry of 'Baaaaaaaaaaaaastards' but after a bit of
complaining they got it put in.

> CC> Interesting. Anything which results in interesting opponents is fine
> by me. Has anyone come up with any ideas what to do with 100+ turn old
> groups yet (and don't say weapons training, I've got 12 chars on ACE -
> the other three are mages, before you ask).
PN> nope, I'm just 56 so I ain't worring yet. Are you strongly
evil or good? perhaps find a crusade? Go hunting all the very
tough monsters and use melee to kill them, to get the fighter
skill increases. Fight every type of monster? Powerdown your
group see if you can survive as well, make a rule that no 1 char
can stay in your party for more than 30 turns. Split the group
and hand one onto a new player (getting desperate now) leave
your group outside and see how long it takes to get chinned.

PN> If it's any consolation your group and others like yours are
a target for the younger players, something to aspire too and
when strong enough duff up.

> CC> No point doing more than 1 Luck.
PN> I thought Luck was supposed to be cumlative? Is Flame?

JPG> I didn't think flame was...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 15:51:24 +0100 (BST)
From: "C.H.E.B." <ctc@coventry.ac.uk>

> JPG> Hard at work revising..   Hehe.. making anyone feel guilty? :-)

CC> Not a chance; I've got two presentations and a piece of coursework
before I start and my first exam in on 26 May!

JPG> *grin* coincidentally the day I finish mine. :-)

> Well, I have but one small point to make before we start, and quite a
> serious one at that.  I would like to request that people do not
> personally flame others, just flame what they say... Tell me if this is

CC> If you're referring to me, Josh, I think I did flame what that
egotistical Australian said. And not him personally. But that may change
as I get further down this mail.

> PN> See the latest KJC news? They are stopping the retraction of
> mistake turns, so if you find you're accidentally going to fuck

CC> I can understand this. If only a couple of players did it (and I
admit to being guilty of this myself. They were very helpful, my whole
turn would have failed if they hadn't rectified the first order) there
probably wouldn't have been a problem. What I guess has happened is that
players have got a bit blase and instead of checking their turn (I write
mine on the back of an envelope first) before sending it, they've just
been relying on KJC's good will. Had to end sooner or later.

> > CC> life is BORING. I haven't the heart to engage groups with E orders
> > because I'd wipe them out (exceptions for groups with general hostiles or
> > groups who annoy me!).
> PN> I know of one group in G8 that is a bit annoyed with the
> Luggage, they moved before they could be stolen from. Quite
> peeved he was.

CC> Really? Do tell ... I *hate* groups who steal from other groups.
Might as well stick a sign on their heads "kill me". Tell him I'm in Falt
at the mo - going north-west if he wants to follow ... If he's got the guts.
Might interest him to know, though, that I have a standing "put money
into bank" order at the end of each turn. He'd only get great axes - the
dangerous end, that is ;-)

> JPG> Hey, I got one input by '???'... interesting on a birth certificate
> that one...

CC> How am I supposed to address letters, now? "Oi you ..."

> SA>another Swedish player I didn't know of. He was very kind sending me my
> turn-result, but what if they had been sent to a not that honest person,
> using my account number and maybe sending copies of my group stats to enemies?

CC> Change the acct no ASAP. Who cares about giving my stats to others ..
can only enhance my reputation.

> > CC> You don't want to hear about the three I've got at 55 skill for 1000
> AH> <sob sniffle wail> I hate you, I hate you, I hate you.
>     Just wait until I get a 99sk EM for 50gp's, just you wait then
> you'll all be sorry....pahahahahahahaha I shall have my REVENGE!

CC> Not offering that amount of cash, you won't!

JPG> Didn't they used to recruit for the navy by dropping shillings in
pints or something... then once you got to the bottom of the drink, you
had discovered, and therefore accepted the payment, and were obliged to
work for the navy.  If you had anything to say about it, you had to deal
with big people with pointed sticks. :-)  Perhaps evil groups should be
able to force mages into slavery... :->

> > CC>  If anyone wants to quote my FAQ or spread it around, but KEEP MY
> > NAME ON IT. Or I will get very annoyed. You won't like that.
> AH> What? Christi...ooops. Ahem. Chris will get annoyed? I dont belive
> that for one moment. <ducks behind blast doors and cowers in a corner>.

CC> Have you been talking to Bill? My sister is the one to be scared of
though. I've seen her make a 6 feet 9 inches tall *biker* cry. Really.

> AH> My original group in G2, back, back in the mists of time, were dropped
> I quit in disgust for a year before comming back.

CC> When things go wrong, they go *hideously* wrong. And usually with all
of my groups at the same time. Any idea how disheartening three bad turns
are in one go?
------------

> >CC> I am neither gentle nor a man
>
PR> Sincerest apologies.  Obviously you aren't a lady either since
> ladies are gentle and don't read mail that's not addressed to them.

CC> Listen arsehole, if you mail to this Digest, it's addressed to me.
Your arrogence overwhelms me. Why don't you fuck off and do something
which is more suitable to you intellectual capacity. Like watching
neighbours.

> >CC>  However "Any errors
> >are the fault of the player" doesn't cut much ice with me. If you can say
> I doubt if it cuts much ice with anyone.  Who on earth would issue
> such a stupid statement?

C>> You. I'm not surprised you don't read the crap you write. I was
embaressed and I didn't even write it. Perhaps you shouldn't have been so
near the nuclear testings during the 50's.

> Both of us play our games for a short time to ensure we know enough
> about them to a) fix up obvious errors we see and b) to enable us to
> answer questions about the games.

CC> Glad to see you got something right. Who taught you?

> >CC> Then get out of the F*#@ing business. I'm sorry, but that is so
> >ARROGANT! Older players know better than to ring up the GM especially
> I was right to begin, you definitely aren't a lady!

CC> If I thought your short-sighted, arrogant and loathesome attitude
deserved any other response, you'd get it. Especially if you were within
range of my knee.

> >CC>  Too late. Personally, you sound as if you really can't be arsed. So
> >give up.
> You appear to be such an expert, drawing conclusions and reading in
> things that aren't even hinted at.

CC> Bollocks. Your tone and post shouted "give me money without me having
to do any work". It was printed in bright red letters, two screens high.

>  Maybe you should produce a book
> entitled "How to become the Perfect Person like I am"

CC> Already have done: ISBN 00-454-245-484 #24.95 available from mail
order. Mail me for more details

> >CC>  Guess which company I won't be playing with in the future.
> Thank heavens for small mercies.

CC> Yeah, I like to play with people who know what they're doing.

> (JPG> _That_ was the kind of thing I was talking about)

CC> OK, Josh. Now I know what you don't want me to mail, I won't bother.
Unless provoked.

JPG> Omm... riiight... *grin*  To be perfectly honest, I'm not in the
least bit bothered _what_ is said, I just don't want to be resonsible for
sending out e-mail that offends anyone.  I accidentally did it once
before, and have had a warning from the sys admin.  If it happens again,
my account gets wiped, simple as that.  Comprendez?  If ppl want to
complain, could they do it to me _first_ instead of my sys admin?

> KH> I understand that Quest has become boring to some older players, but
> played Quest before and don't get all the information from the FAQs, the
> spell lists and the digest, it will probably take 150 or 200 turns before
> two years before becoming boring?

CC> Yeah, but that doesn't help the boredom. I really can't be bothered
to start a new group. I just want a tougher challenge for the groups I've
spent a lot of cash on.

> KH> anybody really thinks that Quest is "bullshit", he is free to vote with
> his feet and leave KJC. That would not only be logical, but is probably

CC> It's not bullshit, it has improved. (I remeber the dot-matrixed
results), but there are other things which could be done to make life
more interesting or challenging. And a few "what do the players suggest"
wouldn't come amiss. How long was I complaining at you Steve before you
programmed Powder Packs?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 14:11:54 GMT
From: Dave Rees <chaos.txt@thanes.demon.co.uk>

> PN> You may be able to still take on the quest, just ask KJC if
> the quest has been taken up by anyone else yet.

DR> Try issuing the 'Y' order anyway. A couple of alliance groups that have
been on holiday came back and bought a TQ only to be told that they couldn't
due to the fact that they'd been offered one last turn.

> AH> I tried to get "the words 'backstabbing' and 'bastards' come to mind"
> in Skulking Vermins PP but they ***'d out bastards.>
> PN> Whats the Unicorn thing?

DR> But it's ok to use the word 'PISS' in the G14 rumours!:(

> CC> ............ tougher monsters (IE variations on a current
> theme) with a entry level made up of character stats (IE number of chars,
> weapons ability - NOT SKILL - and exp).

DR> What about secret levels that you can only get to with specific keys or
have to answer riddles etc.

> Rain would also wash out tracks.

DR> Bugger me have you tried tracking a monster lately? It's hard enough
without the rain. Bring back food that's what I say. It's crap that you don't
need to eat anymore.

JPG> You don't need to eat?? What am I hunting for rations for then?  I
hadn't heard this one... and if it's in the latest newsletter, I was sent
an old one, and then the turn said I was sent one but the envelope
didn't... maybe with the next turn...

> KH> I understand that Quest has become boring...  after 100+ turns. If you
> have never played Quest before and don't get all the information from the
> FAQs, the spell lists and the digest, it will probably take 150 or 200 turns

DR> I didn't

> How many other games do you know that stay interesting for
> two years before becoming boring?
DR> AD&D. I'm still playing after 18 years.
    If fear you miss the point, I want something to do when all my skill
training is finished. If Quest is the alledged 'Open Ended' PBM it's touted
to be then what is there to do? Map the world (39500 sectors so far), 99
theif (yes), 80+ skill mage (yep), 65 spells (been there), combat (I think so)
Dungeon (seen it) Err..... What now? I've spent along time getting my group
where it is now. What am I supposed to do with it? TQ for the sake of it?
Drop 3 bloody good groups and start again? I don't disagree that Quest is
good, it is, but it isn't good enough for my groups anymore.

> KH>  And you would need a dozen or more programmers to extend Quest faster
> than people explore it.

DR> I disagree, from your own 2 year time scale would give a dozen programmers
a very long time indeed to work on something.

> KH> I'm sorry if I offended anybody..

DR> None taken.

> KH>  Live with it or leave it|

DR> I think not, would you be happy with a 286? Or loading computer games from
tape? KJC provide a service, if that service does not continually improve
somebody will sooner or later provide a better one. In this world you cannot
afford to say that is all we can do. People will vote with their feet when
something better comes along.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 11:07:59 +0200 (CES)
From: ui99@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Roland Ottl)

RO> Lately I have noticed the accusations against KJC. Well, aren't
you exaggerating a bit. Of course, if I started complaining I wouldn't stop.
You guys have no idea how that deteriorating service is affecting us
*foreigners* ! I'm playing in game#14...a one week game. While you British
guys have two or three days to think about your next moves I have a few
hours...for it normally takes exactly one week to get my results back.
Normally ! The annoying thing is if you have a catch-up, send in two turn
cards (without knowing the results of the first)...and instead of catching
up you actually lose another week because KJC kept the second card for more
than a week. Now if that happens two times in a row (even though you sent
in a complaining letter...wonder if it has ever been read ?) you start
getting really pissed. Someone complained about the difficulties when phoning
KJC...funny: do you think I understand a single word of those people at the
phone ? Anyway, I don't think that KJC are that bad. Someone has said it
correctly: they are just not at their best ! However, I don't think that
insulting them is of any use (now don't you bite my head of Chris ! :)).

RO> I'm playing Quest now for more than 5 years (now ain't I a stubborn lad
!) and unfortunately it is true that the turns after the 100th are rather
boring. I'm talking of my very first group...now I have a 50 turn group
which is better than that 116 turn group in game#6...well, you get to know
those tricks. Anyway, in the digest we are discussing changes which would be
splendid for the older groups, but aren't we a bit egoistic ? It remains a
fact that KJC runs many games (some might say too many...me included, I only
want Quest :)), we Questers are not the only ones who want improvements. I
fear I have no idea about programming, but are the suggested changes really
so difficult to implement ? I'm not thinking of this weather stuff (which I
think would be very difficult to program...I said I have no idea :)), but of
the rather simpler changes.

RO> The most annoying thing in Quest is the impossibility to evade those
mage groups ! Be honest...you don't have the least chance against those 10
mage skilled 60 up groups ! Now is it so difficult to make the program see
what it does ? Look at your spell combats ! Your mage can be the very first
to cast Confusion, Sleep or Deflect Magic...to NO EFFECT. In one fight my
first mage cast Deflect Magic II before any other, my second mage Confused
10 out of 15 of my foe (1 T, 2 F, 4 P and 8 M) before my foe cast anything
*high AW you know !). Anyway I was still fried with 12 spells/miracles ! Now
if that program would have recognized that my mages did cast preventive
magic before that guy...I would have had at least 7 less spells cast
successfullyagainst me ! Furthermore that Deflect Magic II had, as we all no
know, no effect at all. For those who want to know what happened to my group:
I have five very able priests all casting 101 and my foe was fortuntely only
using 356es, 527ens and 502s. But there are groups out there who have killer
spells in their ranks (I don't...accidently wiped out too many groups in
game 15 without death spells, no need to do that on purpose !). Now PLEASE,
make the spells have effect as soon as they are cast ! Coming to think of
it: did anyone notice one of his mages/priests casting any spells/miracles
even though he was killed with the first spell of the combat ? Would be
interesting to know.

RO> Enough rambling. Sorry that it was again so long. Keep on smiling folks
! Quest is great (sarcasm, irony, cynism etc) :)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "C.H.E.B." <ctc@coventry.ac.uk>

CC> I have recently had the misfortune to recieve my results on that
double-sided printer. ABSOLUTELY HIDEOUS.
CC> I'd rather pay L1.80 for my normal single-sided results than, say,
L1.50 for this rubbish. It looks so unprofessional. It's impossible to
flick through and makes filing a nightmare. And how am I supposed to cut
my acct number out without destroying the other side?
CC> Kevin, _please_ get rid of that printer. PLEASE. I will discuss that
at the London meet. (Threaten, me, nah!)

JPG> Hate to disagree here Chris, but I don't mind the printing on the
back of the page.. took a little getting used to, but it's not that much
hassle for what must be a considerable saving in paper... and hence
money... but I wouldn't mind paying less you know. :-)  Was this
mentioned in the newsletter too? *sighs*  Maybe I'll get it today...

CC> BTW, Does anyone know what happens when you keep getting messages
saying "You alliance is in danger of collapsing due to lack of members."?
Cheers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

JPG> Okay folks, that's it for today.  Sorry it took so long to come
out.  Exams finish a week today, so you can expect faster response time
after that.

JPG> Hope no body minds me disturbing the flow of their contributions
with comments... but I have to have my say somewhere. *grin*

Happy Questing!

>>-Josh->
"Dreamer...  Nothing but a dreamer..."