ATLANTISv2 atl-design-digest #27

From: csd@microplex.com (Christian Daudt)

Date: Mon, 05 Jun 1995 00:00:00 +0000

I thought I was going to get thousands of responses asking me
to keep this digest (maybe I just wanted to massage my ego ;-))
But I received enough responses, so I'll keep the digest going.
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 18:56:57 -0400
From: jhigham@k12.oit.umass.edu (Joshua Higham (NMH96))
Subject: New system?

Geoff, when will your new system be implemented?  I have to leave on friday,
and my Internet access at *best* is questionable.  I want to leave the rest
of my times articles to be posted, but I need to know if I should use "Times
xxx" in my subject, or the body of the message.

Thanks.

--
!!!! This address void on July 1.  Use: jhigham@nyx.cs.du.edu  !!!!

This .sigfile is a thought virus. Its mission in life is to ensure
that it does not get read, thought about, or duplicated. So DO NOT
----------------------------------------------------------
From: Bean <ATLANTIS@bluebean.demon.co.uk>
Date:          Tue, 30 May 1995 21:19:31 +0000
Subject:       Atlantis: Hexes in Turn Report?

I've just got my first moving turn report (previously stuck in
Atlantis City). I was surprised that only the hex I finished in was
described, with no info at all on the hexes I moved through.

Surely if I've spent a month on horseback I am watching and learning
throughout the journey: staying at inns, studying the terrain,
talking to folks I met along the way. This would mean I would learn
about all the hexes I moved through, not just the one I finished up
in. So shouldn't the report include info about these hexes?

----
Bean.
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 May 95 10:27:59 BST
From: dean@memex.co.uk (Dean Burton)
Subject: Atlantis Design Hexes

It would be logical for you turn report to detail all the hexes that you
moved through.  Possibly this would not tell you what other units where
there but at least the terrain type.

Dean B.

----------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Atlantis Design Hexes
Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 19:06:43 -0700
From: Anson Winsor <apwinsor@span.CS.UNLV.EDU>

It sure would be nice to get a feel for the terrain and any major features
of the area that you pass through.

Perhaps you don't see who is there, but you surely should get the info
about the hex and its exits. This would make good scouting sense.

From: Dean Burton <dean@memex.co.uk>
>It would be logical for you turn report to detail all the hexes that you
>moved through.  Possibly this would not tell you what other units where
>there but at least the terrain type.
----------------------------------------------------------
From: Lewis Haddow <9235367@arran.sms.ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Thu, 1 Jun 1995 10:47:52 +0000
Subject:       Re: Atlantis Design Hexes

> It sure would be nice to get a feel for the terrain and any major features
> of the area that you pass through.
>
> Perhaps you don't see who is there, but you surely should get the info
> about the hex and its exits. This would make good scouting sense.
>
> From: Dean Burton <dean@memex.co.uk>
> >It would be logical for you turn report to detail all the hexes that you
> >moved through.  Possibly this would not tell you what other units where
> >there but at least the terrain type.
>
I think that one should get some sort of report on the land moved
through.  Like "Sir Lancelot rides from (24,24) through swamp to
(26,24)".  The rest of the information would be harder to come by
without stopping.  But then, if you move 2 hexes you can tell what
you moved through by looking at the exits from your new location.

LH
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 12:30:20 BST
From: dean@memex.co.uk (Dean Burton)
Subject: Re: Atlantis Design Hexes

>
>> It sure would be nice to get a feel for the terrain and any major features
>> of the area that you pass through.
>>
>> Perhaps you don't see who is there, but you surely should get the info
>> about the hex and its exits. This would make good scouting sense.
>>
>> From: Dean Burton <dean@memex.co.uk>
>> >It would be logical for you turn report to detail all the hexes that you
>> >moved through.  Possibly this would not tell you what other units where
>> >there but at least the terrain type.
>>
>I think that one should get some sort of report on the land moved
>through.  Like "Sir Lancelot rides from (24,24) through swamp to
>(26,24)".  The rest of the information would be harder to come by
>without stopping.  But then, if you move 2 hexes you can tell what
>you moved through by looking at the exits from your new location.
>

What about if you fly should you be able to se more than 1 hex.

----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 95 17:33:31 BST
From: dean@memex.co.uk (Dean Burton)
Subject: Atlantis Movement

It would be good if you could have a number of units follow a single unit.
This would shorten the orders needed.  The following units would carry out
orders if given and stop following the lead unit.  Whilst following they
would work if the lead unit did not move.

Dean B.

----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 12:06:00 -0500
From: jobollin@iumsc4.chem.indiana.edu (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re:  Atlantis Movement

>It would be good if you could have a number of units follow a single unit.
>This would shorten the orders needed.  The following units would carry out
>orders if given and stop following the lead unit.  Whilst following they
>would work if the lead unit did not move.
>
>Dean B.

I don't think that this would make a big difference.  Perhaps other people
play differently, but I rarely move more than a couple units together.  More
often I send one or two (sometimes combined) units from point A to point B.
Once the units are at point B, I don't necessarilly want them to continue to
move together.  I would have had to spend an order to set up the follow,
so I could have just as easilly issued seperate move orders.

In general, I don't often agree with those who ask for various ways of
putting their orders on automatic.  Putting together effective orders is
part of the game.

John Bollinger
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 22:11:37 -0800
From: jbaclask@adnetsol.com (Jeff Baclaski)
Subject: Atl2 - Design - Roads

I am going to suggest the ability to build roads, although I am sure that
there will be those who will be opposed to the idea (Roads!? next will be
freeways, subways and light rail systems! etc. etc.)

I have given little thought into whether this would be easy to code, since
I am not familiar with the code.

A road is build using the 50 or so units of the Construct skill.  It
travels through a hex, connecting two adjacent hexes.  It would allow units
travelling through through the hex to the connected hexes without the usual
travel penalty

Example

A road in Forestland (12,7) gets listed along with other structures as

+Road(1) from Tundraland (13,7) to Swampland (11,6)

This would allow a unit on foot in Tundraland (13,7) to "MOVE nw nw"
expending two movement points and ending up in Swampland (11,6)

An attempt to "Move nw n" would fail end in Forestland(12,7) since there is
no road to the north.

If the season was winter, and the unit had only one movement point, it
could still move along the road one hex at a time.

There it is...roads would be of strategic value for both war and trade
factions.  The difficulty would be in making them cost the right amount of
labor.

I do not suggest any material being required for their development, just an
extraordinary amount of labor.  The cost should be high enough to prevent
roads being build everywhere.  Perhaps they should deteriorate with time,
requiring continuous upkeep.

-jb

Faction 548

EMS, Ltd

----------------------------------------------------------
From: yaj@cc.gatech.edu (Jay Luo)
Subject: Atl2: Use for horses?
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 01:42:29 -0400 (EDT)

The Riding skill in Atlantis 2 seems pretty useless (IMHO) right now
except possibly as a slight combat bonus for leaders.  For non-leaders,
it's more efficient to train in combat.  I think it would make sense for
Riding to be more generally useful than just as a combat bonus, so I
would like to suggest the following:

Suppose unit A is avoiding combat and fully mounted (enough horses to
move at the 'riding' rate).

Then if unit B attacks unit A:

* If unit B is not fully mounted, the attack fails (cannot catch riders
  on horseback).

* If unit B is fully mounted, but unit A has higher riding skill than
  unit B, the attack fails (unit A outrides unit B).

Basically if you are avoiding combat and have horses and are more
skilled at riding, you should pretty much automatically escape from
infantry or poorer grade cavalry.

Additionally:

* A fully mounted unit can enter a hex even if it is under guard by
  unfriendly units, so long as all guarding units are either nonmounted
  or mounted but with poorer Riding skill.

If these rules are added, then having cavalry scouts and cavalry screens
will actually be useful, and horse-mounted troops will have a different
"feel" than infantry that happens to move a little farther.
----------------------------------------------------------
From: Bean <ATLANTIS@bluebean.demon.co.uk>
Date:          Sat, 3 Jun 1995 13:30:04 +0000
Subject:       Re: Atl2 - Design - Roads

I think there is some 'mileage' in this idea. (Couldn't resist
that).

One concern would be whether individual roads in a hex could be
controlled by different factions, otherwise it would skew the odds
even more in favour of the powerful factions.

Also technical difficulties for instance...
  could a faction build a second road between two hexes if the
    existing roads are controlled by a rival faction?
  should it be harder to build roads through mountains than plains?

The Microprose Civilisation game, which has some similarities to Atl,
has roads as a major feature.

> I am going to suggest the ability to build roads, .......

----
Bean.
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 95 11:13:00 -0400
From: leete@slack.med.upenn.edu (Tom Leete)
Posted-Date: Sat, 3 Jun 95 11:13:00 -0400
Subject: Roads

On this roads idea, I'm pretty sure that Geoff mentioned something about
including it in the next version of Atlantis.  As for controlling roads,
once it's built it doesn't care who uses it.  Basically anyone should be
able to use a road; you'll need to declare unfriendly or hostile status
just like before.  I don't think basic roads should be incredibly hard
to make for playability's sake, but should take some effort and some
stone.  The amount of stone and time/cost involved should vary with the
terrain.  Note that only trade or trade/hybrid factions can make roads -
it should require a BUILD order, right?  So once again the almighty
war factions are limited in this respect, and a good alliance will
be better than a good hybrid faction.  Of course, you won't know
where roads are unless you've been over the territory before, so
scouts will only get the benefit by accident, which is just fine -
scouts are scouting.  At any rate, it's an excellent idea and should
be implemented.
	I also liked the ideas about mounted troops avoiding battle
if they chose, or being able to scout hostile terrain.  However, if you
scout with 50 mounted troops, then the purpose of the unfriendly/hostile
attitude is lost, so there needs to be a limit on the number of mounted
men that can enter a hostile region.  Also, scouts do get caught and
killed (a good scout is a dead one), so there should be a chance of
attacking a mounted unit entering a hostile hex.
	Tom
	Lance Lunchnick and the Litigators (277)

----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 17:52:35 +1200 (NZST)
From: Peter Fleming <pfleming@eros.otago.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: Atl2 - Design - Roads

I too think roads would be a good idea, the Atlantean enquirer Ver3
supports Roads railways and rivers, as well as 256 colour hexes and full
DDE conversations.

-banj0
Ver 3. due next month
----------------------------------------------------------
From: Geoff Dunbar <atlantis@rahul.net>
Subject: Atlantis 2.0: atl-design list
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 95 00:42:50 -0700

This is a weekly posting for the atl-design mailing list. This list
is meant for anyone interested in the rules and design of Atlantis
2.0. The moderator of the Atlantis 2.0 game is on this list, so your
ideas could actually become reality! To send a message to everyone
on the list, send email to:

atl-design@tango.rahul.net

To subscribe or un-subscribe to this list, mail to
atlantis@rahul.net. Make sure you specify exactly what you want me
to do, because a lot of mail goes to this address.
----------------------------------------------------------
From: targon!andre@relay.nl.net (Andre van Dalen)
Subject: Atlantis: proposal for skill experience
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 95 14:45:06 DST

Hello Atlanteans,

It dawned upon me that Atlantis 2 does not give player units
experience while executing a task like that is done in Atlantis 1.1.
Why is that? I thought it a neat idea that you learn by doing also,
like in real life, but not as fast as by studying.

For those who do not know the Atlantis 1.1 rules, when you study the unit
gets 30 days of experience just like in Atlantis 2, but when you produce
or execute another action you need a skill for,  you gain 10 days worth
of experience. For example a unit with 30 days of experience in Horse
Training, will have 40 days of experience after producing horse for one
month.

This would allow a group to take apprentices by adding them to a
group that has a few days experience extra and by letting hime work with
the group thereby addding to the experience of the group.

Maybe this is something that can be build into Atlantis 2.0? Geoff ?

The Guild

PS. I already made this proposal on the atl-players list, but I got no
reactions whatsoever. So if this is proposed already could someone let
me know how the discussion went? thanks.
--
The mail|      Andre van Dalen
demon...|uucp: andre@targon.uucp Tel: ++31 3473 65240  Siemens Nixdorf inf sys
hits!.@&|      adalen.via@sni.de Fax: ++31 3473 65212  Mijlweg 7, 4131 PJ
--more--|nerv: adalen.via                              Vianen, The Netherlands