BSE Digest v195 #214

From: kerry@freeside.fc.net (Kerry Harrison)

Date: Thu, 08 Jun 1995 00:00:00 +0000

BSE Digest                 Thursday, 8 June 1995       Volume 195 : Number 214

Welcome to the BSE Digest, the place to discuss all the myriad aspects of
life Beyond the Stellar Empire with other denizens of the Greater Periphery.

In this issue:

+       Re: BSE: Limond Stargate Dest...
+       Research
+       Re: BSE: Trade
+       IND Never Here
+       Re: BSE Digest V195 #213
+       T3 Sovereignty -Forwarded
+       Re: BSE: Research
+       Re: BSE: FET Hedion Market
+       Re: BSE: T3 Sovereignty -Forwarded
+       Ax's Market
+       Re: BSE: Fresh bug meat
+       Re: BSE: Research
+       Re: BSE: Trade
+       Re: BSE: New and stupid (or at least ignorant)
+       BSE:KZK Declaration of War
+       Re: BSE:KZK Declaration of War

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the bse-list
or bse-digest mailing lists.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Richard William Chiang <richc@uclink2.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 00:46:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: BSE: Limond Stargate Dest...

On Sun, 4 Jun 1995 Jackmyster@aol.com wrote:

Nomad1,

Let me address you issues.

> <Please comment on whether any FGZ has engaged mercenaries (either IND or
> RIP) to destroy stargates in the Periphery?>
>
> I will address this issue...
>
> The answer, for those of you who are paying attention is "NO".

Hmm.  Did you engage mercenaries (IND or RIP) to hit QSN ships.  They
seem to think you did.

>
> (Check your intel "Fly Boy" from what we've heard, no other stargates have
> ever been attacked...but please, feel free to waste your time checking into
> it...)

Let's see.  The Porkamo stargate.  The Diamond Stargate.  The Lough
Stargate.  The Capellan Stargate.  The Newbian stargate. etc etc.

>
> As for a "second" attack against the Limond stargate...Don't think so. The
> Ataman would have heard about it...and he has not.
>

Incorrect.  The Limond stargate has now been attacked three times.  It
has been attacked twice by the FGZ as far as we can tell.  The first time
was a while back ago.  The second time was late last year.  The third was
the one recently.

Ensign Devastator

------------------------------

From: David Isaac <76170.2705@compuserve.com>
Date: 07 Jun 95 06:38:26 EDT
Subject: Research

Help!  Now that its time, I've actually run the numbers on one of my colonies
with the idea of converting it to Space Weapon Research. M/NM...Ok, just 5000
more mines. FF...OK, 3500 more mines. Pulac...?  What's this...2,350,000 more
mines?!?  That can't be right...
     It's been my experience that a Pulac deposit of 3.3 is pretty good. Am I
wrong?  Is it likely that there are Pulac deposits out there in the 20 and 30 mu
yield range?  I question the likely hood that in all of space we're producing
the amount of Pulac I'll need for one weeks production. And even if so, there's
no way in hell I'm going to get 23,500 mu's a week hauled in to my colony.
    Where did I go wrong?  Surely RTG in it's wisdom didn't create an impossible
situation. So I must be missing the trick. Anybody know what it is?
    Jeez, maybe I won't go into Space Weapon research at all and just sell Pulac
to the hapless fools who do.

Dave

------------------------------

From: Law2Be@aol.com
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 07:26:09 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE: Trade

Dear sir,

SMS Canton would be pleased to manufacture as many Light Basic Modules as
you require.  We will require you to deliver your payment in Jacium to the
colony, then they will be built using some of that Jacium and made available
for you to pick up.  Canton is a major manufacturing center, and is willing
to make LBMs, Rec-decks, some other restricted, and about any common item
anyone could want.  Contact me via private bandwith for exact quotes for
prices based on your quantity needs.

Lord Sun Tzu
SMS Canton (4990)
Capellan/Utopia

------------------------------

From: Jackmyster@aol.com
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 08:26:18 -0400
Subject: IND Never Here

The following was sent via comlink to Lord Den of Earth

"IND Never Here would like to publicly apologize to the FET leadership for
statements concerning a link between the FET Wyvern's Spur and the rogue ship

IND Atlantis.  The ships both scouted the ground defenses on our colony in
the
same week; Wyvern's Spur was on the ground with Heavy Tanks and troops,
Atlantis
was in orbit with troops.  This occurred after a month of heavy agent
activity.

The Atlantis had dealt with our market on several occasions (bought Araldo
and
colonists, sold farms and metals).  We believe Atlantis attacked Wyvern's
Spur
(with a ground party) after determining that is could not successfully
capture
Never Here.  We were also unaware of the FET's previous ownership of Never
Here.
The Wyvern's Spur's action were aggressive but _totally_ independent of those
of
Atlantis.

I personally invite the FET to come and pick up and former FET citizens (or
their descendants) and hope that further conflict between IND Never Here and
the
FET can be avoided.  Again we are sorry for any problems caused by
incorrectly
linking the FET to IND Atlantis."

IND Never Here
Governor Scruzzella

------------------------------

From: Jackmyster@aol.com
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 08:30:04 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE Digest V195 #213

Oh...I can't take this crap anymore!

Look Quooman slime, you've been warned so many da*mn times to get the hell
out of FGZ space, it isn't even funny!

Are you that stupid? Or are you just a bald face lair?

Nomad1

------------------------------

From: PKRAUSKOPF@FALCON.AL.WPAFB.AF.MIL
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 1995 08:45:19 -0400
Subject: T3 Sovereignty -Forwarded

** Reply Requested by 2/7/2106 (Sunday) **

Date:   6/07/1995  12:23 am  (Wednesday)
        From:  Phil Krauskopf
          To:  bse
     Subject:  T3 Sovereignty

Lord Qutroh,

This is the crux of the problem here.  The QSN have no problem with
our "basic" rights to divide up the Transhole.  There are NO OTHER
RIGHTS, with respect to the Transhole.  The T3 claim it lock, stock, and
barrel.  Period.  Historically, the QSN have only recognized others claims
in the Transhole IF the QSN were allowed unlimited access to do
whatever they wanted inside the claimed space.  Consider the WCE
viewpoint:

1.  The QSN leave a ship in orbit of Fishbed for over a year, ignoring
repeated requests to move it.

2.  the QSN leave a ground party on Abigone (outside the starport),
ignoring repeated requests to remove it.

3.  The QSN ignore repeated requests by the FGZ government to remove
ships in restricted FGZ space.

4.  The QSN ignore repeated requests by the FGZ government to remove
a QSN colony from FGZ space.

5.  The QSN become very irate because the WCE chooses to disable a
stargate in its own space.

6.  The QSN encourage other to violate WCE law and Catrark
sovereignty.

In addition, the WCE knows full well the Quman government has been
planning a war against the WCE for quite some time now.  You've
enlisted the aid of several allies for this specific purpose.  Don't expect
us to sit around twiddling our thumbs until you are fully prepared.

To me, and to all disinterested observers, the actions of the Quman
government speak much louder than its word.  The names you chose for
your ships in Rhapsody (the QSN Blows Up, commanded by Ens Fester,
and the QSN Deathwish, commanded by ens Gomez) obviate the
intentions of the Quman government even further.

Again I ask you:  Is the Quman government prepared to recognize the
FULL sovereignty of the T3 over the Transhole systems?  Not "basic"
sovereignty, sovereignty in theory, nor partial sovereignty.  Is the Quman
government prepared to recognize complete, unequivocal sovereignty of
teh T3 and its claim to all systems in the Transhole.  If so, I will be happy
to contact the new Maalox.  Until that time, though, we have nothing to
discuss.

Lord Secretary Treyder

------------------------------

From: Richard William Chiang <richc@uclink2.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 08:11:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: BSE: Research

On 7 Jun 1995, David Isaac wrote:

> Help!  Now that its time, I've actually run the numbers on one of my colonies
> with the idea of converting it to Space Weapon Research. M/NM...Ok, just 5000
> more mines. FF...OK, 3500 more mines. Pulac...?  What's this...2,350,000 more
> mines?!?  That can't be right...
>      It's been my experience that a Pulac deposit of 3.3 is pretty good. Am I
> wrong?  Is it likely that there are Pulac deposits out there in the 20 and 30 mu
> yield range?  I question the likely hood that in all of space we're producing
> the amount of Pulac I'll need for one weeks production. And even if so, there's
> no way in hell I'm going to get 23,500 mu's a week hauled in to my colony.
>     Where did I go wrong?  Surely RTG in it's wisdom didn't create an impossible
> situation. So I must be missing the trick. Anybody know what it is?
>     Jeez, maybe I won't go into Space Weapon research at all and just sell Pulac
> to the hapless fools who do.
>
> Dave
>
>
>From what I understand, the big colonies will be more limited by the
minimum number of weeks based on the size of the project.  The result is
that you will have extra production to use toward the unproductive
production of basic necessities.

BTW, I think 3.5 is pretty good for a pulac.  The biggest deposit I have
seen is in the high teens.

Richard

------------------------------

From: RFN2@aol.com
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 11:19:50 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE: FET Hedion Market

FET Hedion (919) is at Bates in the Trian system spsq 2349

------------------------------

From: Richard William Chiang <richc@uclink2.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 08:46:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: BSE: T3 Sovereignty -Forwarded

On Wed, 7 Jun 1995 PKRAUSKOPF@falcon.al.wpafb.af.mil wrote:

Lord Treyder,

I have enclosed clarifications to your points.  Hopefully it will help.
> barrel.  Period.  Historically, the QSN have only recognized others claims
> in the Transhole IF the QSN were allowed unlimited access to do
> whatever they wanted inside the claimed space.  Consider the WCE

The QSN historically is a supporter of free trade and colonization for
personal and moral reasons.  But, the QSN does not require unlimited
access to claimed space of others.  If we believe a government is acting
correctly, we will do more than respect their space and we will protest
when we believe they are not acting correctly.  This statement does not
mean that we are judging said affliations on their actions, only
reserving our right to criticize and disagree with the government as is
the right of anyone.  The QSN has not had a problem in the past with WCE
colonization and trade policy.  Our past and present conflicts arose,
from our point of view, over other issues.

>
> 1.  The QSN leave a ship in orbit of Fishbed for over a year, ignoring
> repeated requests to move it.
>
> 2.  the QSN leave a ground party on Abigone (outside the starport),
> ignoring repeated requests to remove it.

In both these cases, these positions were left over from our previous war
and the leader of these positions were not responding to QSN High
Command.  When the WCE destroyed these positions, we did not protest the
act and in fact applauded it as they were rebels who refused to obey QSN
High Command.

>
> 3.  The QSN ignore repeated requests by the FGZ government to remove
> ships in restricted FGZ space.
>
> 4.  The QSN ignore repeated requests by the FGZ government to remove
> a QSN colony from FGZ space.
>

The removal of the ships is a complicated issue which timeline I still
have not straightened out as the involved parties are no longer active
within the QSN.  Let me just add that the QSN had no problem with the
destruction of our ships initially, but were irate at the later treatment
as we tried to contact the starcaptains to inform them of their new orders.

As for the colony, there is some disagreement with the FGZ over the right
of the colony to exist or now.  The QSN did not recognize the FGZ claim
to a system.  By previous FGZ profiles, it was impossible for them to
claim a system which they did not own a colony in and we disputed their
claim to the system.

> 5.  The QSN become very irate because the WCE chooses to disable a
> stargate in its own space.

Yes we were disappointed.  The WCE used hostile means to resolve a
potential problem.  The QSN had not violated WCE with our warfleet and
had no plans to do so.  We recognized the sensitivity of the WCE to such
large scale fleet manuvers.  The WCE did not show such sensitivity.
Instead of asking or informing others to clear out of the zone before
resorting to violence, the WCE raised the death toll unnecessarily.  The
crew and captain of that ship did not need to die.  The WCE went down in
our eyes as more callous and malicious than we had thought.

>
> 6.  The QSN encourage other to violate WCE law and Catrark
> sovereignty.

We still deny this point.  Can you point to the QSN member who did so?

>
>     In addition, the WCE knows full well the Quman government has been
> planning a war against the WCE for quite some time now.  You've
> enlisted the aid of several allies for this specific purpose.  Don't expect
> us to sit around twiddling our thumbs until you are fully prepared.

Whether you choose to believe so or not, here is the situation.  The QSN
had previously moved our 1st Fleet out to the Transhole at the start of
our problems with the FGZ.  We held back for strategic as well as in the
interest of peace.  No plans against the WCE were made of any sort until
the onset of WCE hostilties towards us.  At that point, contingency plans
had been drawn up, but further indications were necessary before we would
act.  You have choosen to listen to the rumors and strike first instead.
Maybe that was militarily wise, but it is definitely bringing you down
the path of war.  The QSN choose not to listen to rumors exclusively and
instead rely of actions.  While it is not the smartest idea militarily,
we needed to peace that much chance.  As for enlisting allies, we
currently only work with the PFM and, believe it or not, it was not to
attack the WCE.  We welcome help from those who seek to give it.

>
>      To me, and to all disinterested observers, the actions of the Quman
> government speak much louder than its word.  The names you chose for
> your ships in Rhapsody (the QSN Blows Up, commanded by Ens Fester,
> and the QSN Deathwish, commanded by ens Gomez) obviate the
> intentions of the Quman government even further.

Once again, those ships have been out there for quite some time.  As for
the names of the ships, I can only speak of one.  The Dreddlox personally
named one a while ago for the sheer reason of being able to say some time
QSN Blows Up blows up.  Be glad they are not in the ensign *unnamed*
family that you so often mention in dread.

>
>     Again I ask you:  Is the Quman government prepared to recognize the
> FULL sovereignty of the T3 over the Transhole systems?  Not "basic"
> sovereignty, sovereignty in theory, nor partial sovereignty.  Is the Quman
> government prepared to recognize complete, unequivocal sovereignty of
> teh T3 and its claim to all systems in the Transhole.  If so, I will be happy
> to contact the new Maalox.  Until that time, though, we have nothing to
> discuss.
>

As for your schematic phrasing of sovereignty, I would recommend that you
take that up with the Maalox to see if he is willing to recognize that.
But be prepared to answer some questions yourself.  You have only
solicited QSN input after numerous hostile acts against primarily
undefended QSN vessels.  This act is not one that will inspire trust.  I
do not question your honesty, but ask would you voluntarily submit to one
who has harmed your family unless you had to or you were convinced that
they had had a change of heart.  Soverneigty is given, not taken from
ones subjects.

------------------------------

From: "JASON GOFF" <JGOF4P1@S1.csc.peachnet.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 12:16:21 EST
Subject: Ax's Market

Whadda ya know, Ax (on Dogleg in Cappella) is buying processed
thorlium for *50. (as soon as the turn gets in)  *25 steller per mu
profit...You listening, merchant dudes?  If you come get these
*&$#ing plasma projectors off my hands I might just pay you.  I said
MIGHT.

Here's a riddle; Why would someone build 4,000 plasma projectors
at a colony that's short on metals?

KZK positions are welcome at Ax.  The only people I'll shoot at
are RIP and FOE.  If you want a market report drop me a note and I'll
snail mail it to you.  I don't feel like doing all that typing.  And
keep in mind that I'm still not finished with Ax's market, so
stuff'll be changing without notice.

Don Guido

OOC; Their going to close the computer lab between spring and summer
quarter, so I'll be offline June 10 to June 19.  If it's urgent,
call, if not, don't bother with snail mail.  I'll be back before it
gets to me.

Later,

Jason Goff
11 Avalon way
Riverdale, GA 30274
404-478-0945
JGOF4P1@S1.CSC.PEACHNET.EDU

------------------------------

From: Rogue616@aol.com
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 15:39:09 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE: Fresh bug meat

You are welcome to visit these to colonies.  FET colony Egz atsystem 4,
Trian, on Pax, ss, 251 and on FET colony Cobol at system 7, Forus, on Snore
ss,2252.  On Cobol, strion and consumer  goods are needed, paying 25 and 6,
respectively.  On Egz, buying processed thorlium at 25. Selling fissionables,
food, and luxury goods at 3,3,and 25,respectively.

Come on by for a visit.

Cochise
                                          aka Jim Louderback
                                          rogue616@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Christopher Allen <gtt-pd@consensus.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 13:49:30 -0700
Subject: Re: BSE: Research

At 3:38 AM 6/7/95, David Isaac wrote:
>    Where did I go wrong?  Surely RTG in it's wisdom didn't create an
>impossible
>situation. So I must be missing the trick. Anybody know what it is?
>    Jeez, maybe I won't go into Space Weapon research at all and just sell
>Pulac
>to the hapless fools who do.

I noticed the same problem, but worse, for Teleportation Research -- you
need collidium and strion, which, from what I can tell never exist on the
same world, and collidium always has very low yields.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
.. Marshall Whispers, Chairman & CEO            aka Christopher Allen ..
.. Galactic Transport & Trade                   4104-24th Street #391 ..
.. GTT HQ, GTT Colony Gaspree (#1656)    San Francisco, CA 94114-3615 ..
.. Petroom (#2713) in Newbian System (#2)           home 415/647-6401 ..
.. <GTT-PD@consensus.com>   No calls after 9pm or before 9am Pacific! ..

------------------------------

From: Kevin Curnutt <kcurnutt@metronet.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 16:18:10 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: BSE: Trade

On 6 Jun 1995, ROGER K. MARKLE II wrote:

> channels or public announcement. Question how do colonies limit access to
> restricted markets and is it possible to have no pick up code.

Why would you not want to have a pick up code?  If you don't see
the need to use one, just don't tell anyone the code.

Kevin

------------------------------

From: Kevin Curnutt <kcurnutt@metronet.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 16:21:41 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: BSE: New and stupid (or at least ignorant)

On 6 Jun 1995, Geoff Hanna wrote:

> I have no maps. None. I want to go places! Really! I do! But I doubt
> the efficacy of commands like Jump Somewhere, Anywhere.

The best place to go for maps is to your PD.  In this case that
would be Kerry.

Kevin

------------------------------

From: "Richard A. Loutzenheiser" <76311.2317@compuserve.com>
Date: 08 Jun 95 00:13:07 EDT
Subject: BSE:KZK Declaration of War

UPI-23/195 (Onondowagah, Ovum, Kellon System, Samillian Hegemony)

Vizier Ganeodiyo, Samillian Foreign Minister held a press conference today.  He
began by reading from a press release forwarded to his office by the Samillian
Embassy at ISP Jax.  ISP PD von Ludendorf has informed the Samillian High
Council that the Kazereckii have declared war upon the SAM and have informed the
IMP of their intentions to attack the SAM and the WSP in Imperial Space.  The
SAM have responded by asking for IMP protection of SAM vessels in the Capellan
Periphery as specified by treaty and law.  The High Council has sincerely
thanked His Imperial Majesty's government for its assistance in this matter.

Speculation here among the press corps is that tension with the PGJ has reached
an all time high and that this KZK declaration of war is in support of the PGJ
in a war that some have anticipated for several months.  The PGJ are a splinter
group of the SAM which are regarded as a perverse abhorance by all followers of
the Ariziel.  Reintegration into the Vizier Mass has long been the goal of the
Queen Mother's High Council.  Interference in this matter by foreign races will
not be treated kindly by the SAM.  When asked if the SAM were already at war
with the PGJ the Vizier responded by saying, "YES".  When asked why this was not
previously announced the Vizier replied that, "the Samillian Hegemony does not
publicly announce such things so as to not telegraph its intentions, but that
the reporter was incorrect in stating that the war was secret and unannounced;
it is just a "quiet war", said the Vizier.

------------------------------

From: Kerry Harrison <kerry@freeside.fc.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 00:47:03 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: BSE:KZK Declaration of War

On 8 Jun 1995, Richard A. Loutzenheiser wrote:

> Vizier Ganeodiyo, Samillian Foreign Minister held a press conference today.  He
> began by reading from a press release forwarded to his office by the Samillian
> Embassy at ISP Jax.  ISP PD von Ludendorf has informed the Samillian High
> Council that the Kazereckii have declared war upon the SAM and have informed the
> IMP of their intentions to attack the SAM and the WSP in Imperial Space.  The
> SAM have responded by asking for IMP protection of SAM vessels in the Capellan
> Periphery as specified by treaty and law.  The High Council has sincerely
> thanked His Imperial Majesty's government for its assistance in this matter.
>
> Speculation here among the press corps is that tension with the PGJ has reached
> an all time high and that this KZK declaration of war is in support of the PGJ
> in a war that some have anticipated for several months.  The PGJ are a splinter
> group of the SAM which are regarded as a perverse abhorance by all followers of
> the Ariziel.  Reintegration into the Vizier Mass has long been the goal of the
> Queen Mother's High Council.  Interference in this matter by foreign races will
> not be treated kindly by the SAM.  When asked if the SAM were already at war
> with the PGJ the Vizier responded by saying, "YES".  When asked why this was not
> previously announced the Vizier replied that, "the Samillian Hegemony does not
> publicly announce such things so as to not telegraph its intentions, but that
> the reporter was incorrect in stating that the war was secret and unannounced;
> it is just a "quiet war", said the Vizier.

A little clarification is in order here - the KZK did not declare war
upon the SAM, the SAM placed the KZK in a state of war with themselves by
attacking PGJ, who are allies of the KZK and which the KZK have a mutual
defense treaty with.  Once it became clear that the SAM were going to
attack the PGJ an communication was sent to the SAM leadership informing
them that an attack upon the PGJ would be considered an attack upon the
KZK and that the KZK would respond accordingly to such aggression and the
KZK has.

KZK Central Command

------------------------------

End of BSE Digest V195 #214
***************************

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