RE: AG stuff From: ryu70@aol.com (Ryu70) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 00:00:00 +0000 Subject: RE: AG stuff From: "T. Woods" <twoods@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> On Tue, 20 Jun 1995, sean wrote: >> fodder but a challange. Just let the prises slip to the best player >> character. Todd writes: > I don't think they should be cannon fodder but I don't think >NPC's should be able to win the tourney either. They're power level >should be somewhere in the middle of the group so something like this >won't happen. Enter a tourney, but no chance to win? :) And you said I was contradicting myself at times. ;) Golden/Paz were in middle of group and won top Doubles group. Hawk/Paz were in middle of group and won top Mixed group. I don't think NPC teams should be absolute washouts and zeroes, but if it was to fill out the top group, I'd make them 7th and 8th slots. My original post on this was to let the player character teams that got stuck in the top group get pushed into being in the 2nd group so they would be fighting more equal powered opponents, not teams with 1000-4000 power advantage on them. I think it's mainly the top group right now that absolutely requires a filler NPC team or two. There are enough player characters still within a certain power range to fill out 2nd highest group and down. Right now there are 6 or so teams that can be in the top group and all have a decent chance to take 1st place, but the 7th and 8th slots just get slaughtered and pounded into the dirt. >> Maybe have a high power limit but with the possibility of three or more >> characters in team fights. Power levels could match up better. > This could work. Of course what would happen if a team overshot >the mark by a few power levels? Tournament partners are set up well in >advance and this could be a possibility. I'd have to agree with Todd. Most players go with who they have teamed with before or have already set up a team immediately following a just run tourney. I know that Sten/Coeus will be teaming up one time for next tourney, and I already have my partners lined up as well. Mike ***** Subject: Re: AG: heavy weapons From: dsaville@unm.edu (David G. Saville) Dave writes: >Weapon Range Hands Fatigue Damage >War Flail Med/Long 2 11 Heavy** >Mega Mace Med 1 20 Incredible** >Super Hammer Med/Long 2 20 " >Maul of Titans Long 2 24 " >Lance Long 2 9 Heavy >Huge Shield Short 1 20 Medium Prot: 26 > There may have been others that I am forgetting. The flail >and the Lance were included to give those wpn series a Heavy damage >upgrade. As you can see, major sacrifices would be required to You didn't 'forget,' you _intentionally_ left out a mega sword weapon cause of Ripjack, Vanya, and me!!!! :) One qualm I have on these super heavy weapons is that all should be 2 handed. Fatigue 20 on a mega mace but using one hand??? Hmmm... let's see...could it be, oh, I don't know....MAUG that this would favor??? :) I don't think there should be a heavier shield...again fatigue 20 but one handed is a no-no in my opinion. 26 protection... oooookay, Dave. :) > In short, I feel the high str designs suffer under the >current system and the super heavies are needed for game balance. >I cant remember the last time Paz felt threatened by anyone >(pc's) using large wpns. >Dave >(Paz, Maug, Vrock, Gwion, and Dorvan) I think high str designs suffer more from not having as many action points and/or dex/cunning as other designs. Action points can be solved by picking up speed or init, but the attack/parry/dodge percentages is the tough part to make up. Against dodgers like Paz, high str designs do terrible, but against the ogre Hulk who we fought in Doubles, Golden could parry all his Power/berserked/high str gauntlet attacks, but he'd smash through for partial damage. There is the possibility of abuse with these super heavy weapons....I can forsee an 18 STR starting human design who picks up daze later on. 40 STR, mega mace, daze around level 10-13. Cast daze once on Paz. One swing, one hit, fight over. (considering it only took Golden 3 hits to take Paz out with a longsword, I don't see Paz taking more than 1 hit from a mega mace) I know of a few 3000+ or so power characters who already have those heavy maces, 40+ STR, and would be very happy to try this out if mega weapons were introduced. I can even see elves who already abused scrolls to get 24 STR and already have level 13-15 daze, raise their STR to 28-30, be at no or almost no encumbrance, use a mega mace. No armor, mega mace, cast speed, cast daze, one swing. Also on adventures where monsters normally outnumber the party, there are many side and behind the back attacks that aren't sensed and defended against. One hit from a mega mace from behind to someone's head would spell disaster, whereas right now, even a Masher Herdling getting a free swing at your back with his great axe would mean a serious blow, but not an automatic death blow. Mike ***** Subject: Re: AG: heavy weapons From: "T. Woods" <twoods@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> Todd wrote: >wsps, stats, ect). I agree though that right now the characters that use >the really big weapons are pathetic. They can't hit their opponents and >even if they do don't drop them that easily. The only hope is for one of >these characters to get a head shot and daze their opponent (don't try this >against too many dwarves though, just don't work :-). I would have to disagree with you and Dave on this. High str designs and their heavy weapons do decent against parriers, but most of the time do awful against dodgers. >then 30 per stat. I don't think it would be too hard for this type of >design to be BOTH fast and accurate with his/her weapon and do ALOT of >damage. Maybe these types of weapons favor races with good stats even >more? Those races that can (fairly) easily get their strength this high >would be at a big disadvantage because they'd be slow and couldn't hit. >But the races (like humans) which could raise they're stats too decent >levels in everything and yet still specialize in strength could be ALOT > tougher. Though it would take alot longer for them to be able to use >these weapons because they have to raise all their stats to a decent level. Yep, another thing to favor humans. :) I don't see 'typical' high str races like ogres benefitting much from super heavy weapons. Humans would benefit greatly, then dwarves next on list. > Ya, but I'm not totally convinced these super heavy weapons will >solve the problem. They'll still be slow and can't hit to save their >life. Look at Paz. You said he outattacked most of the heavies in the >tournament 30 to 5. If it takes 3 hits from these types of characters to >drop Paz they won't make it. They'd be lucky to hit Paz once out of 5 >attacks, let alone 3 out of 5! We'll have to wait and see, but I think >these superheavy weapons will be more of an advantage to characters who >have cheaper stats (i.e. humans) then it will the slow stupid >type. I don't see any slow/stupid type ogre design ever coming close to hitting Paz. A super heavy weapon would definitely enhance Rambler's (human) ability, but for like Bangor(ogre), he'll still have no prayer of competing on Paz's level. Perhaps we should push more for 2-3 higher classes of armor instead of heavier weapons? :) This would increase length of fights for the slow/stupid types and more swings at lower attack percentages increases chances to win. Better solution than same length fight but only change would be heavier weapon that does more damage if you hit? Of course, with the advent of new heavy armors, everyone else would also be wearing it so your normal heavy weapon would actually be doing less damage if you hit. :) Mike ***** Subject: Re: AG stuff From: lepag001@maroon.tc.umn.edu (Garrett R Le-Page) aly@bdt.com (Alan Yip) writes: >>I agree that Hugh introduces new things well into the game, but it seems >>that not all managers are quite as patient as you are. Usually, if >>someone hears about a new item, most managers think, "I gotta get that!", >>and proceed to bombard the original finder with "how did you get that" >>notes. After a few turns, they then start to complain to Hugh that they >>can't find it... This is what happened when Hugh restricted the Garrett writes: >It still amazes me how many 1500+ characters do not have Fostil's packs. Believe me, you guys have it _ALOT_ easier nowadays to get gold and items like Fostil's packs than we did. :) Heck, I remember the good old days when we adventured for 25 turns without the advent of Fostils, Halles, etc. :) Nothing that could kill us more than finding a marble skunk statue on the 1st encounter. >>availability of scrolls. People started complaining that they weren't >>finding anything worth while on adventures. Yes, we are greedy little >>bastards. >Well, to allow the use of scrolls and then cut it off when others are >just getting to the power levels necessary to find them is going to >bother those individuals. Just like Hugh saying scrolls were a bad idea >and retroactively removing the benefits gained through scroll use (a >fairer solution) would cheese off the higher power guys. I've been in AG forever and even before Hugh cut off the scroll supply I could never find a scroll!!! Only a few old players were able to talk a lot of other players out of their scrolls. Perhaps this is why it sounds like old players had a ton of scrolls stashed. I WAS NEVER ALLOWED TO ABUSE THE SYSTEM!!! ;) (ain't that right, Dave, Mr. 6 Earthy Browns? ;-) then there's Blanka, and Drackmoor, and Sxar who is even worse with his earthy browns AND forest greens, and countless other elves) I wonder if a minotaur of all things ever got to read an earthy brown scroll?!!! Mike, still disgusted at all those halflings and freakin elves who got millions of free raises in strength to 24 and beyond.....yah, yah, I'm ranting...(maniacal laughter) Referenced By Up