ATLANTISv2 atl-players-digest #92 From: csd@microplex.com (Christian Daudt) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 1995 00:00:00 +0000 This is kept by me (csd@microplex.com) If there are any problems, please tell me 'cause I normally don't have enough time to read them. If you want previous versions, they are available via WWW at http://www.microplex.com/atlantisv2/ ---------------------------------------------------------- From: "J.P. Harvey" <u3jph@csc.liv.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Newbie Question: Spell lists Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 17:34:14 +0100 (BST) Robert A. Hayden (hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu) wrote: > > Silly question, so keep the flames low, but does anybody have a spell > list that they can send me? The one on the web page is fairly > incomplete. Thanks :-) > > ____ Robert A. Hayden <=> Cthulhu Matata > \ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=- > \/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu > \/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> http://att2.cs.mankato.msus.edu/~hayden > > ****************************** > ** Random Babylon 5 Quote ** > ****************************** > "Soon you will have forgotten all about your old friend Draal." > 'Not if I live to be a thousand and one.' > -- Draal and Delenn, A Voice in the Wilderness I" > > I'll fix the web page ASAP. It's been a busy few weeks and nothing's been doneabout the page for awhile. I PROMISE to clean it up! I do have new spells and corrections to go on, but they're not organised so I can't send them out. Jon. Email Address : u3jph@csc.liv.ac.uk World Wide Web : http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/users/u3jph/index.html Atlantis WWW : http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/users/u3jph/Atlantis/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------- From: "J.P. Harvey" <u3jph@csc.liv.ac.uk> Subject: Re: atl: magic items Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 17:43:53 +0100 (BST) Lewis Haddow (9235367@arran.sms.ed.ac.uk) wrote: > > If there is a helmet of Observation, then surely Geoff must create Geoff *MUST* create? I like that ;-) > Boots of Stealth or a Cloak of Invisibility to combat this. Such > items would only conceal single-man units, of course. > > To me it seems most sensible that, when working out who can teach > what to whom, then items giving skill bonuses should be ignored in > the coding. > Why is everyone talking about this silly helmet? I mean, the wand of fire never got this much attention! Two points to contemplate : coding discussions should go on the design list, not here... why don't we worry about how much these items wiegh? That's the biggest mystery! Jon. Email Address : u3jph@csc.liv.ac.uk World Wide Web : http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/users/u3jph/index.html Atlantis WWW : http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/users/u3jph/Atlantis/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 12:55:23 -0500 (CDT) From: ThorC@UH.EDU (thor christensen) Subject: Re: Wages >McKinnon, Derek (McKinnD@rckcrm003.prose.dpi.qld.gov.au) wrote: >> >> >> Just a suggestion for rules improvements. It seems reasonable to me that >if >> some people are working for wages in a region, then the tax base of that >> region must increse, both in the short and the longer term. I don't know >> how the tax base is calculated at the moment, but this seems like a >> reasonable change. >> >No actually it decreases the tax base! Every worker knocks one off the naturalpopulation of the region, and because tax is calculated from this, it goes >down, not up. Jon, I think you are right in the short term. Presumably you are bringing new workers into the region, but you are also brining in new capital and new demand for labor and products. In the long run, the tax base will increase, particularly if the area in question specializes in the production of some good that is in demand outside the region. That brings in revenue and increases the capital flowing into labor's hands (added wages to those that specialize) and by extension the tax base. However as new capital flows into the hands of labor they will wish to purchase more of what they want and be willing to pay a higher rate to get it. Your prices will go up. I don't want to see different maintenance rates for every town, this would make it an administrative nightmare. Bottom line is that this is a game and we don't have to produce a model that is patterned entirely after the "real" world. Keep the tax base, wage rae and maintenance rates fixed and lets play with the rules as they are. Thor Christensen thorc@uh.edu phone (713) 743-3975 fax: (713) 743-3978 ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jun 95 12:15:20 PDT From: "Odin, Lord of Vallhala" <JSKJONSB@us.oracle.com> Subject: More ? about Helms of OBS The much talked about Helm of Observation Is it perment like a sword or only a few charges like a wand of fire If charges how many turns will it last and is it activated just by having it? Many Thanks, /> Odin, Leader of the Norse Gods \/> -{\\\\\\(*):::<=========================================- /\> \> ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 16:18:31 -0400 From: schissel@math.cornell.edu (Eric Schissel - grad - Barbasch) Subject: ATLANTIS.. new capital etc. ... new capital flowing into the hands of labor? how very opposite of real life... -faction 753 (the composers represented do not necessarily agree with the owner. in fact, i know Draeseke wouldn't.) ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 18:14:25 -0400 From: ffp@magic.ca (The Feature Film Project) Subject: Newbie questions I know this is stupid but i've been trying for about three turns now and I can't name a unit or faction and I can't descibe it either. Could somebody please email me and tell me how. And please tell me where in the orders I put them and so-on. Thanks Garage pound dogs(GPD) see-ya GPD ffp@magic.ca ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 18:17:42 -0400 From: ffp@magic.ca (The Feature Film Project) Subject: auction in cremona Hello fellow players, This is GPD, I'm selling 4 long bows for 175 each or 300 for 2 400 for 3 and 475 for all of them. i'll take the highest bid from any faction but you must pick them up in Cremona. GPD see-ya GPD ffp@magic.ca ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 18:25:59 -0400 From: ffp@magic.ca (The Feature Film Project) Subject: turn checker Does anybody use the"Roy@acasun.eckerd.edu" turn checker? if so could you please help me. I've got my turn check back 2 and both times i didn't understand the reply. It said"**A #Atlantis was expected" What does this mean? please help! Thanks Garage pound dogs(GPD) see-ya GPD ffp@magic.ca ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 20:07:37 -0400 From: ffp@magic.ca (The Feature Film Project) Subject: turn checker(II) Does anybody use the"Roy@acasun.eckerd.edu" turn checker? if so could you please help me. I've got my turn check back 2 and both times i didn't understand the reply. It said"**A #Atlantis was expected" What does this mean? please help! Sorry I forgot to say it repeats the same line 4 times and I did my first line right, so does anybody know what this means? see-ya GPD ffp@magic.ca ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 02:42:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Kit Carson <winsor@nevada.edu> Subject: Re: Wages Yes it does seem reasonable. We work, the economy improved, more taxes are available. why not? On Fri, 30 Jun 1995, McKinnon, Derek wrote: > > Just a suggestion for rules improvements. It seems reasonable to me that if > some people are working for wages in a region, then the tax base of that > region must increse, both in the short and the longer term. I don't know > how the tax base is calculated at the moment, but this seems like a > reasonable change. > ---------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jiri Klouda" <KLOUDA@novell.karlin.mff.cuni.cz> Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 13:52:01 Subject: Atlantis city exits Could anyone, who is in play from the first turn, please, send me part exists from his(her) turn reports. I want move somewhere, where is free. No ugly HELs. * Origin: No keyboard present. Press F1 to continue. Jiri Klouda - Student of Faculty of Maths at Charles University E-mail: klouda@novell.karlin.mff.cuni.cz ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 06:10:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil M Matsui <nmatsui@itsa.ucsf.EDU> Subject: Re: Wages The economic model below sounds reasonable, but if a location can continually increase its taxes, this may cause some unbalance in the game. Perhaps a logarithmic economic expansion might be the way to approach this. Maybe the workers morale's would be affected by long work hours and high taxes. There should also be fluctuations for random environmental factors (disease, inflation, etc.) On Sat, 1 Jul 1995, Kit Carson wrote: > Yes it does seem reasonable. We work, the economy improved, more > taxes are available. why not? > > > On Fri, 30 Jun 1995, McKinnon, Derek wrote: > > > > > Just a suggestion for rules improvements. It seems reasonable to me that if > > some people are working for wages in a region, then the tax base of that > > region must increse, both in the short and the longer term. I don't know > > how the tax base is calculated at the moment, but this seems like a > > reasonable change. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 10:41:22 -0500 From: jobollin@iumsc4.chem.indiana.edu (John Bollinger) Subject: Re: Wages On Sat, 1 Ju;l 1995, Neil Matsui wrote: >The economic model below sounds reasonable, but if a location >can continually increase its taxes, this may cause some unbalance >in the game. Exactly. As I noted earlier, the proposal allows for a region to generate infinite taxes. > Perhaps a logarithmic economic expansion might be >the way to approach this. Maybe the workers morale's would be >affected by long work hours and high taxes. There should also >be fluctuations for random environmental factors (disease, >inflation, etc.) Why do you want to add such complication to the game? A realistic economic model is not the goal. The goal is a playable, enjoyable game, which I think we already have. Such a model of economic expansion adds little to the game but inflation. [one author's comments deleted] >> On Fri, 30 Jun 1995, McKinnon, Derek wrote: >> >>> >>> Just a suggestion for rules improvements. It seems reasonable to me that if >>> some people are working for wages in a region, then the tax base of that >>> region must increse, both in the short and the longer term. I don't know >>> how the tax base is calculated at the moment, but this seems like a >>> reasonable change. Perhaps my previous comments on this got lost in the ether somewhere. The economic model in Atlantis 2 presumes that the population of each region is already working for wages. That is where the available tax income comes from -- it is the amount of native earnings above a $10/person "maintenance" cost. Furthermore, it assumes that each region already supports the maximum possible employment (given the terrain, technology, etc.). That is why player units that work reduce the native population: they are taking the natives' place in the economy, and thus they do not expand the economy, and the natives starve (or move, or whatever). I see absolutely no need for economic expansion in Atlantis. John Bollinger jobollin@indiana.edu ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 01 Jul 1995 11:43:59 -0500 (CDT) From: ThorC@UH.EDU (thor christensen) Subject: Re: Wages >I see absolutely no need for economic expansion in Atlantis. Ditto. Besides, increased tax capital benefits only those that can tax, right? Thor Christensen thorc@uh.edu phone (713) 743-3975 fax: (713) 743-3978 ---------------------------------------------------------- From: tim.hruby@his.com Date: Sat, 01 Jul 95 13:50:07 Subject: Re: Wages. Please take the Wages discussion (if it is going to be continued) to the atl-design list, as it is a design issue. Up