ATLANTISv2 atl-players-digest #102

From: csd@microplex.com (Christian Daudt)

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 00:00:00 +0000

This is kept by me (csd@microplex.com)
If there are any problems, please tell me 'cause I normally
don't have enough time to read them.
If you want previous versions, they are available via WWW at
http://www.microplex.com/~csd/atlantisv2/
----------------------------------------------------------
From: "J.P. Harvey" <u3jph@csc.liv.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Atlantis 2.0: Oops...
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 19:58:24 +0100 (BST)

Geoff Dunbar (atlantis@rahul.net) wrote:
>
> I seem to have scared some of you with my announcement that
> the play-test of Atlantis is closed. All this means is that
> no new players will be signed up. The game is not over.

Thank Goodness!

>
> In addition, in all likelihood (I'm not guaranteeing anything,
> but I'm planning on it) the current game will not end when/if
> the commercial version opens in September/October. In addition,
> there will not be any charges for the play-test ever.

Also both these points are re-assuring to hear!

>
> So, I apologize for scaring some of you, and I hope that some
> of you have enjoyed Atlantis enough that you will consider
> playing the next version.
>
> Geoff
>

Do you think we'd make this much fuss if we didn't like it? It's great! We
were just a little shocked at the suddenness of everything. Unfortunately some
ofus (like me, a poor student) will not be able to afford to play the
pay-by-email version (we're actually wondering how you would get regular payments from
some of the scattered players in far off countries...?)

We do appreciate you running the game, and have enjoyed playing it very much.
I think it was just the briefness of the message in the times that was odd -
that something of such impact to the game would get less comment from you than
say a discusion on the properties of a wand of fire!

Anyway, I'm sure you didn't intend to dumbfound us so, and at least now
thingsdon't sound so hopeless at our end!

My regards, as ever,

Jon.

Email Address  : u3jph@csc.liv.ac.uk
World Wide Web : http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/users/u3jph/index.html
Atlantis WWW   : http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/users/u3jph/Atlantis/index.html

----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 95 15:26:21 -0400
From: leete@slack.med.upenn.edu (Tom Leete)
Posted-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 95 15:26:21 -0400
Subject: Atlantis closing

Hmmm, did I miss something?  All Geoff said was that the game
was closing, and everyone is screaming about the game being over.
In the words of Mr. Twain:

"Reports of <the game's> demise are greatly exaggerated."

Of course the game will continue as long as Geoff wants, and from
the assurances he's given us in the past, I don't see it ending
anytime soon.  Keep in mind, Geoff has kept the game going even
though he got married and moved within a month or so, as well
as improving the game and working on the next version.  Anyone
who thinks his commitment to Atlantis 2 is at all flighty has
seriously missed the boat.  As for me, I intend to keep up my
level of commitment to playing the game for as long as it runs.
Atlantis is clearly one of the best e-mail games around, and the
price is (of course) unbeatable.  Geoff did also say that he
would try to keep the commercial game at a low price, so hopefully
1;7m--More--m
it will be possible for many of us to continue on with the
new one when it opens.
        And for anyone whining about large faction's hard work
going to waste, you clearly missed the first line of the listing
in the PBM games homepage, the "instructions" message sent to
all when they started, and the rules:

THIS IS A PLAYTEST.

Guess what?  That means that there are no garuntees.  Enjoy it
while it lasts.  Personally I've had a great time communicating
with people around the globe, it's been fun to have some
foreign allies, especially with the different way people phrase
things.  So on with the game!

Tom Leete
        Lance Lunchnick and the Litigators (277)

Disclaimers:
1)  Warning!  Do not remove the back panel of this message!  All
hidden meaning can only be interpreted by a trained professional.
2)  "Our produce is prefectly safe when used properly."
        - Primatene Mist Executive
3)  Any resemblance of any member of my faction to any lawyer
living or dead is pure coincidence, and will be met with the
stiffest personal liability suit allowed by law.

----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 15:34:29 -0400
From: schissel@math.cornell.edu (Eric Schissel - grad - Barbasch)
Subject: ATLANTIS, and paying

ok, i stand corrected severally.
atlantis .3. will be "commercial" and i have gotten into atl 2 before
it closes and so in the great tradition of immigrant-descendants bashing
newer immigrants (eg) can pull the ladder up after me. (just joking.)
-faction 753
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 14:43:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: James A Edwards <jamis@physics.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: paying

Is there anybody out there that thought that Geoff was going to keep
running the Atlantis game for free until the end of time. It was obvious
from the start that he was using us to play test a game that he was
developing for commercial use. He is getting a free play test and we are
getting a free game. This seems like a fair deal, and people who don't
think so can quit.
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 18:56:15 +0100 (WET DST)
From: u0904872@soneto.etsiig.uniovi.es (AL PERTIERRA)
Subject: Re: CLOSED??????????

>
> I ain't happy! There was no warning!
Neither do i.
>
> I'm part-way through the revamp of my atlantis homepages, including much
> expanding help for newbies. And what happens?
>
Yeah, now that we're starting being as powerful enough for starting
conquering cities it finished.

> The Game Closes!
>
> Two friends whome I've just talked into joining the game now can't. Is anyone
> else annoyed? And Geoff says it's going to be a "commercial" game for October
> onwards! I like to play but I can't / won't pay!
Yeah!!! and how we must pay??? will you take the payment from the Internet
costs??? why making it a commercial game if having still lots of bugs???

>
> Anyway, I'm much disillusioned, and have halted developement of my Atlantis
> pages for the time being. Sorry folks! Once we've heard how long Geoff is
> actually going to keep *this* game running for, I may change my pages, but for now,
> they're static and old!
 I was going to start a homepage about atlantis, but probably i won't do
it... why if not playing...??

>
> I guess it'll do me good in the end, as I'm going into my final year next
> yearand won't have as much time on my hands. I think I'll send this to Geoff as well - perhaps you could put some sort of press release out other than "the
> gameis now closed!" It would be a lot softer on us than the sudden death toll in
> the times!
>
If Geoff let us i can continue with the game if he sends me the code and the
actual game files, but i don't know if he would like the idea.
That's my offering...

Soldados Drakull (Drakull Soldiers)
faction 237

/*******************************************************************************

////////      Al Pertierra                  Al Pertierra:
    | _  _ |	  C/ Feijoo N'49-4'-A       u0904872@soneto.etsiig.uniovi.es
   6| *  * |9     Gijo'n (Asturias)         (u0904872@156.35.141.8)
    |  <   |      Spain  C.P.33204          u0904872@odin.etsiig.uniovi.es
     | _  |                                 (u0904872@156.35.141.5)
     |____|
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:26:51 -0400
From: schissel@math.cornell.edu (Eric Schissel - grad - Barbasch)
Subject: ATLANTIS, paying

"not forever" and until a few months after I first signed on are,
however, a bit different.
i do not "require" of Geoff that he keep it free forever, but no one
should attempt to "require" of me that I spend money i do not have to
play when it does change, not October but whenever.
So far, much fun, and I shall play as long as I can.
-faction 753
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:42:09 -0400
From: Timothy Ireland <tireland@mc1adm.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: paying

I think this guy has the right idea.  Atlantis has been a blast!!!  I
think I might even join up to Atlantis 3...  depending upon the cost.

Timothy Ireland

On Tue, 11 Jul 1995, James A Edwards wrote:

>
> Is there anybody out there that thought that Geoff was going to keep
> running the Atlantis game for free until the end of time. It was obvious
> from the start that he was using us to play test a game that he was
> developing for commercial use. He is getting a free play test and we are
> getting a free game. This seems like a fair deal, and people who don't
> think so can quit.
>
----------------------------------------------------------
From: Gary Weis <weis@ca.metsci.com>
Subject: ATLANTIS Looking for training in AC
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 95 16:26:09 PDT

Is there anyone willing to train one of my mages in Construct
in AC?  I'm also looking for Armorer and Weaponsmith
training....

Thanks...

Order of the Ebon Hand(931)
weis@ca.metsci.com
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 15:46:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Perkmeister <dperkins@gps.northrop.com>
Subject: Atlantis: Times?

Has anyone received the times yet for this month?

later,

PPPP  EEEEE RRRR  K  K M   M EEEEE I  SSS  TTTTT EEEEE RRRR
P   P E     R   R K K  MM MM E     I S       T   E     R   R
PPPP  EEE   RRRR  KK   M M M EEE   I   S     T   EEEDE RRRR
P     E     R  R  K K  M   M E     I     S   T   E     R  R
P     EEEE  R   R K  K M   M EEEEE I  SSS    T   EEEEE R   R

----------------------------------------------------------
From: "D.J. McGaw" <u3djm@csc.liv.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Advices...
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:56:59 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Re: Advices...
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:56:59 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:56:59 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:56:59 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:56:59 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:56:59 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:56:59 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:56:59 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:56:59 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:56:59 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:56:59 +0100 (BST)
From: "D.J. McGaw" <u3djm@csc.liv.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Advices...
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:56:59 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Re: Advices...
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:56:59 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:56:59 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:56:59 +0100 (BST)
From: "D.J. McGaw" <u3djm@csc.liv.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Advices...
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:56:59 +0100 (BST)
From: "D.J. McGaw" <u3djm@csc.liv.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Advices...
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:56:59 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:56:59 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Re: Advices...
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:56:59 +0100 (BST)
From: "D.J. McGaw" <u3djm@csc.liv.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Advices...
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:56:59 +0100 (BST)

> "PS Newbies can still ask me for advice. "
>
> How can I survive in Atlantis (city and world)?
> I feel surrounded by greed and violence!
>

To survive, you need to make your faction self sufficient. Buy men to work,
soyou don't have to claim.

And, YOU ARE SURROUNDED BY GREED AND VIOLENCE. Get used to it!

> Alex, The Happy Merchants, faction 974
>
> P.S. is atlantis@rahul.net the address for orders?
>

Sure is!

Regards as ever

Dave
----------------------------------------------------------
From: "D.J. McGaw" <u3djm@csc.liv.ac.uk>
Subject: Re:  Weather Control
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:30:33 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:30:33 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:30:33 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:30:33 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:30:33 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:30:33 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:30:33 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:30:33 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:30:33 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Re:  Weather Control
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:30:33 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:30:33 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:30:33 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:30:33 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:30:33 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Re:  Weather Control
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:30:33 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:30:33 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Re:  Weather Control
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:30:33 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 16:30:33 +0100 (BST)

Well, folks,

I've been waiting for this one. Yes, a control weather spell would be useful,
but HOW would you code it?

Among the first lot of fake spells, of which the Spells Syndicate deals with
great relish (you may have read some of our work) were two for Control Weather.

One to make it winter in a region, the other to make it summer. The problem
is, how can you have Summer in one region, when it is Winter all around in the
surrounding six hexes?

Surely this would lead to a crash!

Nice idea, but impractical. It is effectively a system to allow people with
flying and riding means to move around during the winter months, while a
walkingunit would have little chance to gain the benefits (unless they try and enter
Desert or Plains areas).

This evens out the way horses (and flying mages) can utilise their
property/properties.

OK?

Regards as ever

Dave

PS This should realy be put on the deisng list, so designers be prepared to
receive this twice.

>
>>Pardon me if I'm being ignorant (i.e. if they already exist) but I
>>think there should be weather control spells as a subset of the
>>Nature discipline.  There could be various levels of impact and areas
>>of effect (i.e. a powerful mage could change the weather several
>>degrees from normal) and/or a powerful mage could affect more
>>territory (say level 1 could only improve the weather for a small
>>body of travelers, negating adverse impact on travel due to weather,
>>up to a level five mage being able to alter for 1-3 turns the weather
>>in one hex and the surrounding six hexes.)
>>
>>I think it would be interesting; it would allow players to negate
>>and/or optimize production (is production weather-linked?  It could
>>be) as well as control or for that matter INVOKE adverse conditions.
>>It certainly would add a strategic element to the game which I for
>>one would find fascinating, and needn't take up too much extra code -
>>the subroutine passes from Geoff's control to the player if the
>>conditions are met.  Of course, there would have to be protocols for
>>multiple mages working for the same and/or different effects . . . .
>>
>>Opinions, ladies and gentlemen?
>
> Well, basically, the only affects that weather currently has on the game
> are to slow movement during Winter (or Monsoon) season.  A Control Weather
> spell might fit into the scheme of things, though the implementation would
> need to be carefully worked out.  Geoff may already have one, as far as I
> know.  Please note that this could be a highly useful spell, allowing much
> faster movement for all units during adverse weather, or restricting
> movement during good weather.
>
>
> John Bollinger
> Melvin's Marauders (105)
>
----------------------------------------------------------
From: Lady Venom <u3jph@csc.liv.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Advices...
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 17:50:04 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 17:50:04 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 17:50:04 +0100 (BST)
From: Lady Venom <u3jph@csc.liv.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Advices...
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 17:50:04 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 17:50:04 +0100 (BST)

D.J. McGaw (u3djm@csc.liv.ac.uk) wrote:
>
>> "PS Newbies can still ask me for advice. "
>>
>> How can I survive in Atlantis (city and world)?
>> I feel surrounded by greed and violence!
>>
>
> To survive, you need to make your faction self sufficient. Buy men to work,
> soyou don't have to claim.
>
> And, YOU ARE SURROUNDED BY GREED AND VIOLENCE. Get used to it!

Oops! You forgot MALICE - that's me! (The shadow standing behind you with the
very sharp knife)

Lady Venom.

>
>> Alex, The Happy Merchants, faction 974
>>
>> P.S. is atlantis@rahul.net the address for orders?
>>
>
> Sure is!
>
> Regards as ever
>
> Dave
>
----------------------------------------------------------
From: "D.J. McGaw" <u3djm@csc.liv.ac.uk>
Subject: Atlantis Submerging?
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 17:44:05 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Atlantis Submerging?
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 17:44:05 +0100 (BST)
From: "D.J. McGaw" <u3djm@csc.liv.ac.uk>
Subject: Atlantis Submerging?
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 17:44:05 +0100 (BST)
From: "D.J. McGaw" <u3djm@csc.liv.ac.uk>
Subject: Atlantis Submerging?
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 17:44:05 +0100 (BST)
From: "D.J. McGaw" <u3djm@csc.liv.ac.uk>
Subject: Atlantis Submerging?
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 17:44:05 +0100 (BST)
From: "D.J. McGaw" <u3djm@csc.liv.ac.uk>
Subject: Atlantis Submerging?
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 17:44:05 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 17:44:05 +0100 (BST)

Well, it looks like the news has finally leaked.

Atlantis is going down!!!

Well, not for definite, anyway. Here's the news as I've read it.

There will be NO MORE new entries into this playtest. There will be a new
gamesetting up in Sept/Oct where the participants will have to pay to play (How
the Japanese and Europeans are gonna pay in dollars is a bit of a mystery).

As for this playtest? Who knows? Are we gonna fold, or do we still go along
until we drop dead? Are the big factions gonna simply watch their hard earned
efforts go to the dogs? Your guess is as good as mine.

In any respect, I think a big THANX is due to Mr Dunbar, although this is a
bit of a shock and maybe we could have done with a little bit of warning.
Especially as we were trying to drumm up a few more playtesters here in Liverpool, which will now have to go without. (Boo! Hiss!)

Most of all, I'm gonna miss the chance to talk to everyone in the World, as
well as team up with others to help out the Newbies.

(I think particular thanx should go to John Bollinger, who has been assisting
newbies since he was one himself, also Matt Dunne who has become a bit of a
recluse as of late, and Jon Harvey, up here at Liverpool, who has slagged me
offfor my misinterpretation of the rules since day one, and who encouraged
everyone else to slagg me off as well, just for the hell of it. To all the newbie
helpers out there [but who's names I forget] I salute thee!!!)

To everyone else I have come into contact with, via trade, or talk, if this
isgonna be it, I just wanna say :

T H A N X  !!

Regards as ever

Dave McGaw
(u3djm@csc.liv.ac.uk)

PS Bye!
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 11:13:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
Subject: ATLANTIS:  WANTED in AC
Subject: ATLANTIS:  WANTED in AC

I am interested in purchasing the following in AC
	1	Helm of Observation
	1	Sword

Please Email your offers.  Thanks :-)

____        Robert A. Hayden      <=> Cthulhu Matata
\  /__          -=-=-=-=-         <=>          -=-=-=-=-
 \/  /  Finger for Geek Code Info <=> hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
   \/   Finger for PGP Public Key <=> http://att2.cs.mankato.msus.edu/~hayden

----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 10:58:16 -0500
From: fizban@ins.infonet.net (David A. Johnson)
Subject: Re: CLOSED??????????
From: fizban@ins.infonet.net (David A. Johnson)
Subject: Re: CLOSED??????????
From: fizban@ins.infonet.net (David A. Johnson)
Subject: Re: CLOSED??????????
From: fizban@ins.infonet.net (David A. Johnson)
Subject: Re: CLOSED??????????
From: fizban@ins.infonet.net (David A. Johnson)
Subject: Re: CLOSED??????????
From: fizban@ins.infonet.net (David A. Johnson)
Subject: Re: CLOSED??????????
From: fizban@ins.infonet.net (David A. Johnson)
Subject: Re: CLOSED??????????
From: fizban@ins.infonet.net (David A. Johnson)
Subject: Re: CLOSED??????????
From: fizban@ins.infonet.net (David A. Johnson)
Subject: Re: CLOSED??????????
From: fizban@ins.infonet.net (David A. Johnson)
Subject: Re: CLOSED??????????
From: fizban@ins.infonet.net (David A. Johnson)
Subject: Re: CLOSED??????????
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 10:58:16 -0500
From: fizban@ins.infonet.net (David A. Johnson)
Subject: Re: CLOSED??????????
From: fizban@ins.infonet.net (David A. Johnson)
Subject: Re: CLOSED??????????
From: fizban@ins.infonet.net (David A. Johnson)
Subject: Re: CLOSED??????????
From: fizban@ins.infonet.net (David A. Johnson)
Subject: Re: CLOSED??????????
From: fizban@ins.infonet.net (David A. Johnson)
Subject: Re: CLOSED??????????

Perhaps you misread the The announcement.  It said:

Atlantis 2.0 is now closed. People wishing to play will have
to wait for the next incarnation of Atlantis. Tentative plans
are for a low-cost commercial game to open in September or
October.

Restarts are still allowed.

It did not say that this game was going away.  It said that there will be no
new starts.  Those who are already playing and get killed will be allowed to
re-start but new people wishing to start will have to wait until September
when a NEW game will start.  They will have to pay for that one tho.

Dave

At 01:15 PM 7/11/95 +0100, J.P. Harvey wrote:
>I ain't happy! There was no warning!
>
>I'm part-way through the revamp of my atlantis homepages, including much
>expanding help for newbies. And what happens?
>
>The Game Closes!
>
>Two friends whome I've just talked into joining the game now can't. Is anyone
>else annoyed? And Geoff says it's going to be a "commercial" game for October
>onwards! I like to play but I can't / won't pay!
>
>Anyway, I'm much disillusioned, and have halted developement of my Atlantis
>pages for the time being. Sorry folks! Once we've heard how long Geoff is
>actually going to keep *this* game running for, I may change my pages, but
for now,
>they're static and old!
>
>I guess it'll do me good in the end, as I'm going into my final year next
>yearand won't have as much time on my hands. I think I'll send this to
Geoff as well - perhaps you could put some sort of press release out other
than "the
>gameis now closed!" It would be a lot softer on us than the sudden death
toll in
>the times!
>
>regards,
>
>Jon.
>
>Email Address  : u3jph@csc.liv.ac.uk
>World Wide Web : http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/users/u3jph/index.html
>Atlantis WWW   : http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/users/u3jph/Atlantis/index.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>