BSE Digest v195 #246

From: kerry@freeside.fc.net (Kerry Harrison)

Date: Sat, 08 Jul 1995 00:00:00 +0000

BSE Digest                  Friday, 7 July 1995        Volume 195 : Number 246

Welcome to the BSE Digest, the place to discuss all the myriad aspects of
life Beyond the Stellar Empire with other denizens of the Greater Periphery.

In this issue:

+       Re: BSE Digest V195 #244
+       Formal Request for ISP intervention
+       Re: BSE: Formal Request for ISP intervention
+       Re: BSE: Combat System
+       Re: BSE: PFM Announcement
+       PFM
+       BSE:PFM Declaration of War
+       Re: BSE:PFM Declaration of War
+       Re: BSE: BSE-PFM Foolishness
+       Re: BSE: BSE-PFM Foolishness
+       Re: BSE: BSE-PFM Foolishness
+       Re: BSE: BSE-PFM Foolishness
+       MoW vs. BS..yeah, right!
+       Re: BSE Digest V195 #245
+       For..."Victor"
+       RE:  BSE - PFM stuff
+       Re: BSE: Reality Check...
+       Re: BSE: Combat System
+       Re: BSE: Re: BSE Digest V195 ...
+       Re: BSE: Requested Clarification
+       Re: BSE: MoW vs. BS..yeah, ri...
+       Re: BSE: For..."Victor"
+       BSE: RIP Outrage unraveled
+       Moon breakup

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the bse-list
and bse-digest mailing lists.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: RTGames@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 09:23:24 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE Digest V195 #244

All fractions on scrapping anything are dropped!

Thad

------------------------------

From: ronk@triassic-142.Eng.Sun.COM (Ron Kleinman)
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 09:33:38 -0700
Subject: Formal Request for ISP intervention

>>PD von Ludendorf,
>>
>>I agree with the Captain of the Blue Whale.
>>
>>  Outside governments hiring the RIP deserve the, um, ATTENTION, of the
>> Empire. This sets a diplomatic precedent that deserves special consideration.
>>
>>
>>
>>- --Lord Julian MacRorie
>>  SMS Defense Coordinator

Dear PD von Ludendorf,

I couldn't agree more!  What is the procedure for filing formal charges
against the FGZ in this instance?  I will be unable to receive or transmit
messages during the next week due to ongoing repairs to the communications
section of my ship [OOC-vacation] but I stand ready to testify as
to the events occuring during the RIP attack on the Blue Whale at any subsequent
date.  I also have the written confessions (i.e. swaggering boasts) from both
RIP and FGZ regarding to their complicity in this unlawful attack.  In fact,
these excessive displays of testosterone were publically broadcast on an
open bandwidth, SO THE IDENTITIES OF THE PERPETRATORS ARE NOT IN DOUBT.

As a peaceful merchant trader whose unarmed ship was savagely attacked in
Periphery space, what recourse does the ISP offer me .. or any other merchant
captain who a major affiliation hires the RIP to take out?

Thank you for your consideration in this matter.

Yr. Obedient Servant

Nicholas Van Rijn
						MerchantPerson
						QSN Blue Whale

------------------------------

From: scragg@infi.net (Joe Eckhout)
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 13:35:08 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE: Formal Request for ISP intervention

>Dear PD von Ludendorf,
>
>  I couldn't agree more!  What is the procedure for filing formal charges
>against the FGZ in this instance?  I will be unable to receive or transmit
>messages during the next week due to ongoing repairs to the communications
>section of my ship [OOC-vacation] but I stand ready to testify as
>to the events occuring during the RIP attack on the Blue Whale at any
subsequent
>date.  I also have the written confessions (i.e. swaggering boasts) from both
>RIP and FGZ regarding to their complicity in this unlawful attack.  In fact,
>these excessive displays of testosterone were publically broadcast on an
>open bandwidth, SO THE IDENTITIES OF THE PERPETRATORS ARE NOT IN DOUBT.
>
>  As a peaceful merchant trader whose unarmed ship was savagely attacked in
>Periphery space, what recourse does the ISP offer me .. or any other merchant
>captain who a major affiliation hires the RIP to take out?
>
>  Thank you for your consideration in this matter.
>
>						Yr. Obedient Servant
>
>						Nicholas Van Rijn
>						MerchantPerson
>						QSN Blue Whale
>
So much for the QSN being a military force in the Periphery. Here I thought
you guys had the might to protect yourself and and there you go running to
hide behind the skirt of the IMPs. I guess your no where near as tough as I
thought.

But maybe you are just trying to play Adm VonLudendorf as a fool in a poor
attempt to drag the IMPs into your sorry little war with the SAM/WCE/FGZ.
You really don't think he's that stupid do you? Hell even I respect the good
Admiral more then that!

Cap'n Scragg (on to your little ploy)

------------------------------

From: Kevin Curnutt <kcurnutt@metronet.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 13:56:05 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: BSE: Combat System

On Thu, 6 Jul 1995, Cap'n Scragg wrote:

> >	In my opinion, you've both got it wrong.  This would not result
> >in fewer ships, it would result in fewer *large* ships.  New players
> >would be flying Destroyers around, rather than Dreadnougts and Men-o-War.
>
> Actually I think this is a good thing. It would make a capitol ship
> much more valuable and new players would feel a little less impotent
> flying about in their small ships.

Exactly.  Not that I expect RTG to go for it. <g>

Kevin

------------------------------

From: Kevin Curnutt <kcurnutt@metronet.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 14:00:03 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: BSE: PFM Announcement

On Thu, 6 Jul 1995 Torinom@aol.com wrote:

> You always seem to "make an exception.  Even with those with
> whom you have treaties.
>
> --Victor Haldane

Victor Haldane,

Care to clarify that remark?  As far as I'm aware, the WCE has
not broken any treaties.

Anton Blanchard

------------------------------

From: Richard William Chiang <richc@uclink2.berkeley.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 13:02:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PFM

I can not speak for the PFM.  But I can say that the PFM PD roleplays the
PFM extensively.  In fact, unlike many of the role players in this game,
he seems to stay in profile even when it is not to his advantage and not
use role playing as window dressing.

As for the state of role-playing in this game, I believe it is on a
downward spiral in some respects.  I do hope it gets better.

Richard

------------------------------

From: "Richard A. Loutzenheiser" <76311.2317@compuserve.com>
Date: 07 Jul 95 16:55:59 EDT
Subject: BSE:PFM Declaration of War

Joe

>It ain't so.

Unfortunately it is.  We, the combined playership of the SAM have seen one (1),
repeat ONE PFM ship since we rejoined the game.  We have never travelled to
their space.  We have never traded.  We have never talked to them, emailed them,
written them or vice versa.  Then out of the emptiness of space they declared
war on us.  This is sad but true.

>Some people whine and cry because others don't play the way they want them to.

I hope it doesn't sound like we are whining.  We are attempting to ridicule them
for being completely ludicrous non-role players.  I wasn't go to speak upon this
subject again but the fact a newbie asked for background is the only reason I am
respond.

>The power hungry people that don't really work for the stuff they have will
eventually get bored and go away ships.

Very True, we've seen it before haven't we.

Richard A. Loutzenheiser, SAM

------------------------------

From: Kerry Harrison <kerry@freeside.fc.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 16:04:13 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: BSE:PFM Declaration of War

On 6 Jul 1995, Richard A. Loutzenheiser wrote:

> "We will not engage in a war of words" concluded the Foreign Minister.

Getting a bit verbose for someone that "will not engage in a war of
words" ain't ya? <G>

Kerry (strickly OOC)

------------------------------

From: Kerry Harrison <kerry@freeside.fc.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 16:08:49 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: BSE: BSE-PFM Foolishness

On 7 Jul 1995, Donald G. Pierce wrote:

> imagination).  (Hmm, for that matter, I do not believe we have ever seen a KZK
> position in the past 7 years, yet they have also declared war on us).  Whatever
> happened to role play?  Whatever happened to in-game actions?

Oh, the KZK are out there, but we're skulking around in the shadows you
guys haven't bothered to look into. <g>

Kerry

------------------------------

From: Kerry Harrison <kerry@freeside.fc.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 16:15:24 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: BSE: BSE-PFM Foolishness

On Fri, 7 Jul 1995, Jeremy Slater wrote:

[excessive quoting snipped]

> is the heart of the game. It would be a great disappointment to discover
> that this is no longer the case for BSE.
>
> Say it ain't so :-)

It ain't so - the SAM players are not aware of everything that's going on
(or even a small fraction) behind the scenes and seem to have decided
that their enemies are not roleplaying the way they want them to - well
tough cookies we'll roleplay (or powergame) any damn way we please.

Kerry

------------------------------

From: caz@primenet.com (Paul Ellis)
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 14:17:18 -0700
Subject: Re: BSE: BSE-PFM Foolishness

>Greetings o sentient races (and some maybe otherwise) -
>
>As a non-participant who is just about to get involved in BSE. I just wanted
>to note the above comments are very disheartening if true. I've been looking
>for an RPG for quite some time where the role-playing is taken seriously and
>is the heart of the game. It would be a great disappointment to discover
>that this is no longer the case for BSE.
>
>Say it ain't so :-)
>
>J. Slater
>

J. Slanter,

About Role Playing in BSE, I have been playing BSE about a year and a half
now and I have found that around 98% of the Players take role-playing
seriously.  It is those players that fall into the 2% magin that were
getting flamed by that message.

ALL:
The truth of the matter is that the PFM player was playing acording to the
PFM profile. Two major goals of the PFM are to expand thier empire and
acquire large amounts of Tech. The PFM could see attacking the SAM as the
best way to accomplish those goals(ie. The SAM have teritory and tech).
After reading the PFM profile I highly doubt that the PFM player was
"Absolutely, unequivocably out of character:".  If you disagree with me I
would like to point you to the PFM Profile, Affiliation Description, second
paragraph:

"They will do what they feel is necessary for the survival and prosperity of
their race and believe there are two ways to ensure this goal: galactic
domination and military alliances."

I guess that the PFM feel domination is the way to go in this case.

Paul E.

------------------------------

From: Kerry Harrison <kerry@freeside.fc.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 16:21:11 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: BSE: BSE-PFM Foolishness

On Fri, 7 Jul 1995, Paul Ellis wrote:

> "They will do what they feel is necessary for the survival and prosperity of
> their race and believe there are two ways to ensure this goal: galactic
> domination and military alliances."
>
> I guess that the PFM feel domination is the way to go in this case.

Actually they're heavily involved in military alliances with a couple
other extreme militant groups who happen to share similar goals. <G>

Kerry

------------------------------

From: Jackmyster@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 19:05:29 -0400
Subject: MoW vs. BS..yeah, right!

What have you been smokin? PFM Derlicks?

Adm. Lincoln Stern

------------------------------

From: Jackmyster@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 19:08:51 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE Digest V195 #245

<I could see where they would be concerned but in this matter I don't see
what interest they would have other then the fact it happened in Drell (which
the QSN is claiming anyway).

Cap'n Scragg>

Ain't that the truth though....My, my...how the "Sovergin" doth run to their
"Leadership" at the least little attack....Blue Whiner is fitting!

Lord Den of Earth

------------------------------

From: Jackmyster@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 19:08:49 -0400
Subject: For..."Victor"

Week 14.195
Porkamo, 1559

Side One
FGZ Return A BS Commanded by LCDR. NArd'Zard'Zhok
Side Two
PFM Fury A MoW Commanded by Vice Admiral BlakJak

A FGZ vessel and a PFM vessel engage each other near the Porkamo stargate.

FGZ Return fired at PFM Fury ENG.Section (2000/2000/1400)
        500 Photons - 389 hits - 7780 dam. 81%
PFM Fury fired at FGZ Return Main Section (2900/2950/0)
        290 Positrons - 290 - 2900 dam. 103%

PFM Fury BLOWS UP

Need I say more?

------------------------------

From: Torinom@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 19:31:50 -0400
Subject: RE:  BSE - PFM stuff

J. Slater wrote:
>Greetings o sentient races (and some maybe otherwise) -
>
>As a non-participant who is just about to get involved in BSE. I just wanted
>to note the above comments are very disheartening if true. I've been looking
>for an RPG for quite some time where the role-playing is taken seriously and
>is the heart of the game. It would be a great disappointment to discover
>that this is no longer the case for BSE.
>
>Say it ain't so :-)
>
>J. Slater

Ok.  It ain't so.  <G>

Actually, I think that when people really get into their characters and their
affiliation/government/racial profiles, it just means that they *really* get
into
it, and are more prone to getting steamed when something seems out of
character to them.

As just about *ANYONE* on this list can tell you - I'm prone to that myself.
But don't worry about it - it's just something that happens once in a while,
I don't think it's prevalent - at least not universal.

- --Derek

PS - Hope you decide to play.  Wanna hear about the SMS?  <Grins in
anticipation of OOC flames about my affiliation...>

------------------------------

From: Torinom@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 19:48:53 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE: Reality Check...

Ah, my dear Cap'n Scragg...

Let's talk about Reality (tm) shall we?

1) The Drell system is still Imperial Space (tm) until the negotiations with
the QSN are completed.

2) The SMS has been Sh***ing on the RIP for a while.  And our collective
butt is most decidedly *not* sorry.

OOC:

3) In the Real World (tm), there are places where sovereign territories
exist within other countries.  If the Calli Cartel (sp?) were to flood those
interior sovereign areas with illegal drugs, or another country were to
flood those interior sovereign areas with guns, the "surrounding"
government would get involved.

BIC:

I understand the position of the RIP, and given that, can see why the
RIP would accept such a contract from the FGZ.  What I question is
the wisdom of Lord Den of Earth in this matter.  And it is my opinion
that the Stellar Empire should do something about it.  Whereas I do
not respect the actions of the RIP (of of the FGZ in this particular
instance), I do respect your (and the FGZ's) right to disagree with me
on this point.

Perhaps we can leave it at that - between you and us - but I would still
like to see some Imperial response to this violation of what is still, as
far as I know, Imperial Space (tm).  That, of course, is up to SAdm
von Ludendorf.

- --Lord Julian MacRorie (mka Derek Smith) - SMS Defense Coordinator

------------------------------

From: Torinom@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 19:51:32 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE: Combat System

Joe,

Ok.  I see your point.  I don't agree, personally, but that agreement isn't
necessary.  I just hope that however it turns out people have fun playing
the game.

- --Derek

------------------------------

From: Torinom@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 19:54:16 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE: Re: BSE Digest V195 ...

Thus spake the GM:
All fractions on scrapping anything are dropped!

So, all you potential ship designers out there, design each hull section
to have a number of hulls that is a multiple of 5...  <G>

------------------------------

From: Torinom@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 20:16:10 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE: Requested Clarification

My good Anton Blanchard,

I was referring to a agreement signed between the WCE and the SMS,
AFTER the WCE became a government - and paid for by former SMS
PD Willy Highman in the form of a large one-time tax payment to the WCE.

Now, I admit that I was not privy to all of the details of that arrangement,
as at that time I was not in the pay grade that gave me access to that
kind of information.  So if I am in error, I will gladly admit it.  I am not
nearly
so hot-headed as my daughter, Robyn.  But the fact remains that the WCE
attacked an SMS asset (regardless of their promise to reconstruct it after
things settle down - we don't even know if the SAM are going to allow it
to operate, anyway...)

Even if the SMS Transhole Coordinator acted to allow this in order to
minimize damage, he had, as far as I know, no authority to do so.  It would
be as if I had accepted an SSL offer many years ago to buy my high-yield
FF deposit (just when they were getting the tech to convert FF to METS)
without getting permission from the then PD, Lord Croft (senior).

I hope that clarifies what I meant.  If I am in error, my apologies.

- --Victor Haldane,
SMS Special Operations

------------------------------

From: Torinom@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 20:26:30 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE: MoW vs. BS..yeah, ri...

I didn't say that luck wouldn't be involved.  Merely that it is possible.

A PFM M-O-W can carry in excess of 600 Positron Guns.

Try that against your Engine Section in simulation.  You'll find the
results... ah, um, interesting, to say the least.

Now - to be fair - one on one - the PFM Man O War is toast either way,
but easier to replace - and it probably won't be one on one...

- --VH

------------------------------

From: Torinom@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 20:32:47 -0400
Subject: Re: BSE: For..."Victor"

Yes, you need say more.

Like -

1)  FGZ Return was fully armed for war.

2)  PFM Fury was already in the Transhole, equipped for minimal self-defense,
carrying less that half of its weapons capability.

3)  Consider this scenario - PFM Fury carrying 680 Positron Guns, and hitting
in Engine section.  Given their accuracy in the real thing (290 hits out of
290),
you can expect 6800 MU's damage.  This trashes, oh, about 8 more Engine
Hulls than a BaseShip has.

Then both ships blow up.

- --VH

------------------------------

From: LUDENDORF@delphi.com
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 1995 23:37:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: BSE: RIP Outrage unraveled

>   Note to ISP:   As in illegal drug use, catching the low-level pusher doesn't
> help.  You need to punish the dealers who finance the transactions in the
> first place.  Is there a chance I can get redress for this outrage?  Will the
> FGZ be made to pay for violating imperial peace?  Is there a law against
> giving the RIP a contract to violate such laws?

Ensign Rjin, QSN Blue Whale,

Da Boss sez I can take this one,

Bite me!.....
<ka-chunk........(sound of laser rifle bolt slamming foward)>
<huh.... whatcha me  he sez I can't talk like that>
<unintelligable response>
<@#$%^&!.... alright already, I doesn't want ta go back ta that
backwater dump>

.... er.... sorry, slip of da tongue...
What I means ta say is dat de QSN & FGZ are already at war.  Drell
is a legitimate battlefield.  Da RIP is already bein' hunted by da ISP;
has been fer years.  Da word of a terrorist (Cap'n Skragg) is hardly
evidence (he'll probably next claim credit fer da massacre of da
Israeli Olympic Team at da Munich Olympics in Ol' Earth history).
Lord Den o' Earth's claim conflicts with confidential reports about
da attack.  In regards ta Drell, it's in a state of transition.  While,
technic'ly it's IMP, it's only IMP in name only.  Fer all practical
purposes, it's QSN territory.  <ooc: Richard... i'm still waiting
for the treaty... If you can't email it to my CIS address as requested,
then send it to this address> Had, dis attack occured outside
of Drell, damn straight the IMP would be involved in a heartbeat.
Da boss said ta keep ya'lls assinine war outta IMP territory and
he means ta enforce dat. Da IMP will investigate youse claim, but
don't expect us ta go ta war without proof.  Same thing protected
da QSN from da IMP joining in on da side of da FGZ when a QSN
colony *ALMOST* fired on a TRN ship which turned FGZ... no proof.

Ta Lord Den o' Earth,

Da boss remembers reading many cases in da histroy of ol' Earth
around da 20th Century where groups 'n countries would claim
responsibility fer somethin' dey didn't do.  He's already heard
reports dat the RIP attack was intended ta kill da QSN ship, but
a RIP newbie screwed up.  Straight up, were ya responsible?

J. Hoffa
APD

------------------------------

From: LUDENDORF@delphi.com
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 1995 23:37:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Moon breakup

UPI News Update              - wk 195-25

Press Conference, ISS colony Secudus

At a followup press conference at ISS Secudus, concerning the
breakup of the moon Oscar, ISS Public Affairs reported the following
new information:

Adm. Baldwin, of the ISS Relentless-2 <ooc: Dave Sweet> has
continued his exploration & research into the breakup of the moon
Oscar, which orbits the planet Jingles in the Einstein system.
Adm. Baldwin has discovered that Oscar was indeed a rogue moon
literally billions of years old, which was captured by the orbit of
Jingles, but never achieved a stable orbit.  Currently, the moon is
in it's death throes.  Adm. Baldwins ground explorers sustained
injuries due to the extreme siesmic activity as the moon begins
to tear itself apart, but no deaths are reported.  Astrophysists
indicate that as the moon begins it's final deteriorating orbits
it will begin to break apart, to be sucked into a fiery doom, crashing
into and bombarding the surface of Jingles with debris.  It is
expected that some of the larger pieces will create quite a show
as they attempt to penetrate the Hydrogen atmosphere of Jingles.
and strike the surface with the impact of a burning comet.
Geologists have ascertained that the final breakup will occur on
week 195-42  plus or minus 2 weeks.  It has also been determined
that during the final breakup, it may not be safe for ships located
in the space square or orbit of Jingles, as the chunks of Oscar will
cause friction when entering the hydrogen atmosphere of Jingles
and begin to burn.  Since Hydrogen is volatile, it could ignite the
atmosphere.  The resulting explosion could propel debris and pieces
of Oscar out, with the force of a missile.  The ISS strongly advises
that Ground Parties on the surface of Jingles be removed as it is
highly unlikely that they will survive the bombardment from
the breakup of the moon.  Ships wishing to view the spectacle
are advised to use EXTREME caution.  Astrophysists at the
various colonies on Coast Zone have already begun training
their telescopes and instruments on Oscar & Jingles in
anticipation of the rare opportunity to record this historic
event, the death of a moon.   This info is being present as a public
service to all sentient lifeforms, due to the extreme danger
posed by the breakup of the moon.

Joe Bob Briggs
UPI News

------------------------------

End of BSE Digest V195 #246
***************************

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