ATLANTISv2 atl-design-digest #30 From: csd@microplex.com (Christian Daudt) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 00:00:00 +0000 This is kept by me (csd@microplex.com) If there are any problems, please tell me 'cause I normally don't have enough time to read them. If you want previous versions, they are available via WWW at http://www.microplex.com/~csd/atlantisv2/ ---------------------------------------------------------- From: Geoff Dunbar <atlantis@rahul.net> Subject: Atlantis 2.0: atl-design list Date: Sun, 09 Jul 95 19:01:24 -0700 This is a weekly posting for the atl-design mailing list. This list is meant for anyone interested in the rules and design of Atlantis 2.0. The moderator of the Atlantis 2.0 game is on this list, so your ideas could actually become reality! To send a message to everyone on the list, send email to: atl-design@tango.rahul.net To subscribe or un-subscribe to this list, mail to atlantis@rahul.net. Make sure you specify exactly what you want me to do, because a lot of mail goes to this address. ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Jul 95 09:20:33 PDT From: "GDUNBAR.US.ORACLE.COM" <GDUNBAR@us.oracle.com> Subject: Re: Movement points --Boundary-11398816-0-0 ]However since this is a design topic what ever season it is should ]only affect the cost to enter the hex, not total MP of the unit ]so a horsey unit has 4 could move from a jungle under a monsoon ]into a plains with normal weather with MP to spare however it couldnt ]have any leftover if it moved the other direction. Actually, that is the way it works (although this is not entirely clear from the rules). Geoff --Boundary-11398816-0-0 X-Orcl-Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: 08 Jul 1995 11:48:09 Sent: 08 Jul 1995 11:47:46 From:"William Robinson " <owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net> To: andrew@ergasya.tuc.gr,(SARIKAKIS,ANDREAS) Subject: Re: Movement points Cc: atl-design@tango.rahul.net Reply-to: owner-atl-design@tango.rahul.net X-Orcl-Application: In-Reply-To: <9507081204.AA06801@kydonia.ced.tuc.gr>; from "SARIKAKIS ANDREAS" at Jul 8, 95 3:51 pm X-Orcl-Application: X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] What hex are you in that doesn't have monsoon season coming up next month? pratically ALL of cremona has it, at least I am not in any hexes that dont.. However since this is a design topic what ever season it is should only affect the cost to enter the hex, not total MP of the unit so a horsey unit has 4 could move from a jungle under a monsoon into a plains with normal weather with MP to spare however it couldnt have any leftover if it moved the other direction. --Boundary-11398816-0-0-- ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 11:55:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Heinen <jeffh@ee.pdx.edu> Subject: Re: Magic factions. Well, this is just to add my aggreement. More magic, more users. But one new (?) suggestion. The ability for several mages to work together to cast a spell. If one mage knew conctruct, and another fire. Then working together they could be able to work together. A firery tower (I konw its silly, but you get the idea). Perhaps they would have to spend a month studying together to compare noted and find the spells the can cast together. Yes is is more complex, and I dont know how it would code, its just an idea.. :_) -Jeff -=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=- _ __ __ _ _ _ | | ___ / _|/ _| | | | | ___(_)_ __ ___ _ __ _ | |/ _ \ |_| |_ | |_| |/ _ \ | '_ \ / _ \ '_ \ | |_| | __/ _| _| | _ | __/ | | | | __/ | | | \___/ \___|_| |_| |_| |_|\___|_|_| |_|\___|_| |_| jeffh@ee.pdx.edu -=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=- ---------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristian M. Pettersen" <FE6@stud.hibo.no> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 20:00:09 MEZ-1MDZ Subject: Magic factions. Greetings, Atlanteans. I will now complain about the magic-faction again. If you find this gives you a headache and a compulsion to flame me, don't read any further. The magic-faction has been much maligned on this list and the players-list. It has been said that magic-factions are weak, that they cannot gain money, that the magic-system is to large. I do not say this. Magic factions are weak in the beginning, but will greatly increase in power as the game progresses. They also can create magic items for which great amunts of silver are often paid. And the magic-system is too small. No one mage should be able to learn everything. But the one problem the magic-faction has is size. It cannot cover a lot of regions, nor support its allies in enough hexes. And also, the enjoyment of playing such a game as this is to many proportional to the size of their order sheet and report. A standard magic-faction with a few guards and spies and observers will have a order-length of less than 30 lines, and perhaps 10 regions on the report! An ally of mine (war faction) once said that the reason why his turn had so many mistakes was that he had used merely 2 hours on it. I use 15 minutes, and get no mistakes. So, Geoff, if I could ask for two things for the Magic-faction, either here or in atlantis 3.0 (or whatever), it would be: Give us more magic, and more magicians. Please! (Commentstothelist. Flamestomyaddress.) Xenos (3) (Yes, I've been here from the start) Kristian M. Pettersen (FE6@stud.hibo.no) ---------------------------------------------------------- From: Geoff Dunbar <atlantis@rahul.net> Subject: Atlantis 2.0: Some design stuff Date: Tue, 11 Jul 95 11:33:02 -0700 Here are some statistics that I compiled dealing with the various faction types involved in Atlantis. Keep this handy, as I'm going to have some comments/questions about the faction type system coming up. Geoff P.S. Sorry about the cryptic way I compiled stuff- didn't want to deal with fp. Dividing the numbers by 100 should give per faction info, which is a little easier to see. GM report: Faction type: Generic Number: 285 Mages * 100/Faction: 24 Tax Regions * 100/Faction: 31 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: 29 Faction type: War/Trade Number: 63 Mages * 100/Faction: 0 Tax Regions * 100/Faction: 163 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: 85 Faction type: War/Magic Number: 39 Mages * 100/Faction: 138 Tax Regions * 100/Faction: 169 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: 0 Faction type: Trade/Magic Number: 34 Mages * 100/Faction: 147 Tax Regions * 100/Faction: 0 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: 47 Faction type: War Number: 43 Mages * 100/Faction: 0 Tax Regions * 100/Faction: 767 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: 0 Faction type: Trade Number: 20 Mages * 100/Faction: 0 Tax Regions * 100/Faction: 0 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: 355 Faction type: Magic Number: 81 Mages * 100/Faction: 370 Tax Regions * 100/Faction: 0 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: 0 Faction type: NPC Number: 2 Mages * 100/Faction: 0 Tax Regions * 100/Faction: 0 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: 0 ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 14:09:47 -0500 (CDT) From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu> Subject: Re: Magic factions. Well, one solution is to have an "apprentice" mage. It must be a leader. Cannot learn more than one foundation skill, to no higher than 3. Does not count agaist your maximum # of wizards. -- Needs a lot more spells, and maybe even some more foundations. Without a list of spells, I don't really have any ideas for spells that might not already exist. I've got some ideas that I can throw out if you want me to. -- The ability for two people to work together would be good. There some semantic problems that needs to be worked out (who needs to know the spell, for example). Perhaps an "AID" command would work. Let me toss out an example: Spell Name: Nuclear Blast Foundations: FIRE 3, FUSION 3 Research: Gadget Effect: Destorys one Hex. All people and buildings are destoryed. UNIT 666: Foundations: Fire 3 UNIT 667: Foundations: Fusion 3 (assume that one of them has learned the spell, thus we need to allow learning of spells if you only know one of the foundations) Commands: UNIT 666 Cast "Nuclear Blast" UNIT 667 AID 666 ____ Robert A. Hayden <=> Cthulhu Matata \ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=- \/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu \/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> http://att2.cs.mankato.msus.edu/~hayden ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 19:35:45 -0400 From: xuequin@unix.asb.com (Mark Reid) Subject: Factions Well, it's embarassing to have to open my mouth and display my ignorance, especially since most of the other playtesters have much more successful factions than mine, but it's my lifelong fault that I don't know when to be quiet. I like the magic element in the game, and I am all for more and more powerful spells, but I hope Geoff doesn't go the route of ever more devastating attack spells, laying waste to hexes, or 7 hexes, or whatever. I'd like to see more arcane powers not unlike some of the astral projection spells suggested here by others. Spells that concentrate on communication, construction, and empowerment of other factions - sort of like the way it is now, but with ever higher degrees. But I am completely against the idea of more mages. They are too powerful, and (I think) will eventually unbalance the game if allowed to run rampant. I'm not against the suggestion that Kristian Petters made of mages working together, but not for what are currently dual foundation spells, only for more advanced spells that would require a concert of x number mages so as to contract their power more. (Like, maybe, enchant castle, doubling a castle's defensive bonus, requiring 3 high level mages. Etc.) If there is one change that I think would help the game's balance it would be to reduce the nuber of taxable hexes for war factions down to 50. (And I suppose, a similar restriction on trade, out of fairness) I think that the 100 limit was chosen before anyone guessed there would be so many factions in the game. And the result is a lot of crowd pressure, particularly on the newbie factions trying to get out of AC. Well, that's my 2 cents... -MMR Greenpoint faction 572 xuequin@unix.asb.com ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 11:10:27 -0700 (MST) From: "Michael W. Lamb" <LAMBM@chemistry.byu.edu> Subject: Re: Factions Agreed! Without wishing to be rude, the game isn't very fun until your faction is OUT of Atlantis City, unless of course you live by stealth stealing from newbies, which grows old after awhile, or you try university teaching, which also grows old after awhile. The 100 hex limit for pure war and trade factions is too high, in my opinion. I think that logically, everyone should be capable of a minimal level of skill in the other disciplines. Thus, I think that a pure Mage faction should be able to tax and produce - in one hex. The same principle could be extended to others. And whoever it was that suggested those interesting sub-categories of the existing factions was on the right track - it would certainly add new dimensions to the game. Oh well - my thoughts on the matter. ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 12:11:56 PDT From: "GDUNBAR.US.ORACLE.COM" <GDUNBAR@us.oracle.com> Subject: Atlantis 2.0: Faction comments Here are some comments based on the faction data. Right now I'm strictly analyzing; I'll make some comments about what should be done later: GM report: Faction type: Generic Number: 285 Mages * 100/Faction: 24 Tax Regions * 100/Faction: 31 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: 29 Based on the low numbers here, it looks like these are mostly starting factions, and there aren't many Generic factions that are actually doing much. Faction type: War/Trade Number: 63 Mages * 100/Faction: 0 Tax Regions * 100/Faction: 163 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: 85 Faction type: War/Magic Number: 39 Mages * 100/Faction: 138 Tax Regions * 100/Faction: 169 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: 0 Faction type: Trade/Magic Number: 34 Mages * 100/Faction: 147 Tax Regions * 100/Faction: 0 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: 47 The hybrid factions seem to be pretty popular. Whether this is because people use them as a stepping stone or not is not conclusive from this. The Magic hybrids are both pretty close to every one having 2 mages. Faction type: War Number: 43 Mages * 100/Faction: 0 Tax Regions * 100/Faction: 767 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: 0 Faction type: Trade Number: 20 Mages * 100/Faction: 0 Tax Regions * 100/Faction: 0 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: 355 Looking at the 2 above, it's obvious that Trade is a poor sister in this game to War. Faction type: Magic Number: 81 Mages * 100/Faction: 370 Tax Regions * 100/Faction: 0 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: 0 A lot of pure magic factions. One person I spoke to said that a lot of the big alliances pick 1 faction to be the War faction, one to be the Trade faction, and everyone else is a magic faction. From my data I can't tell whether this is true or not, but seems likely. So, while it seems that Magic is very popular, I don't know whether this is because people think magic faction are more fun, or if it is a matter of necessity. Comments? Also, it's obvious from this that Trade is not important enough. There are few trade factions, and even the ones that are there, aren't producing very much. I'll have some comments later on what I want to do to fix all this in the next Atlantis. Geoff ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 16:23:21 -0400 From: leete@slack.med.upenn.edu (Tom Leete) Posted-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 16:23:21 -0400 Subject: faction types. It was very intersting to see the selection of faction types listed. The clear emphasis on magic factions and de-emphasis on trade factions is alalso interesting. From my own experience, a well balanced faction only has a couple war and trade factions, and many magic factions. My own alliance is currently one war, one trade, one war/trade and two pure magic. Frankly, we're in much need of more magic help, and we are trying to recriut another magic faction. The lack of pure trade factions probably has to do with the fact that production is difficult to get if the war factions control the hexes, so a trade faction has to sell it's soul just to get production in a couple of hexes. No trade faction will ever come close to the 100 hex limit, and a single trade faction is plenty to produce all the supplies most alliances need. Hybrid trade factions are attractive because 5 production hexes is plenty, and you can also either tax or do magic. So I would agree about dropping the maximums on taxible and producible hexes for pure trade and war factions, even as low as 25 hexes each. I would also find some way to give magic factions the chance to make money other than selling their services. They are the most strapped for cash and have the fewest income possibilities of any faction type. Increasing the number of mages by one or two might also help. In all, I like the current faction system, but I didn't play Atlantis 1, so I don't know any different. I also think that some sort of economic model allowing trade factions to carry goods from one place to another (particularly one city to another) to make money would really increase the interest in trade. Tom Leete leete@slack.med.upenn.edu ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 15:18:12 PDT From: kbrors@mindscape.com Subject: Re: Atlantis 2.0: Faction comments > Here are some comments based on the faction data. Right now > I'm strictly analyzing; I'll make some comments about what > should be done later: > GM report: > Faction type: Generic Number: 285 Mages * 100/Faction: 24 > Tax Regions * 100/Faction: 31 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: > 29 > Based on the low numbers here, it looks like these are > mostly starting factions, and there aren't many Generic > factions that are actually doing much. We (my alliance) has found that these are too generic and not alot of use. > Faction type: War/Trade Number: 63 Mages * 100/Faction: 0 > Tax Regions * 100/Faction: 163 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: > 85 > > Faction type: War/Magic Number: 39 Mages * 100/Faction: 138 > Tax Regions * 100/Faction: 169 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: > 0 > > Faction type: Trade/Magic Number: 34 Mages * 100/Faction: > 147 Tax Regions * 100/Faction: 0 Trade Regions * > 100/Faction: 47 > > The hybrid factions seem to be pretty popular. Whether this > is because people use them as a stepping stone or not is not > conclusive from this. The Magic hybrids are both pretty > close to every one having 2 mages. We are using alot of WAR/TRADE as there is not enough money to afford very many mages in our forest/swamp region. If we were in plains there would be 1 or 2 WAR, 1 or 2 combos maybe 1 trade and the rest all magic. Non-plains terrain has a hugh disadvantage because of the TAX revenue difference and also that trade has a (much) longer setup time and is more difficult to run than war (TAX). Again we are only using TRADE as we don't have plains (avg $3000 tax vs $840 for forests). > Faction type: War Number: 43 Mages * 100/Faction: 0 Tax > Regions * 100/Faction: 767 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: 0 > > Faction type: Trade Number: 20 Mages * 100/Faction: 0 Tax > Regions * 100/Faction: 0 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: 355 > > Looking at the 2 above, it's obvious that Trade is a poor > sister in this game to War. As above TRADE does not give the rewards of WAR and it is harder to manage. Also if you are not close to a pop center that buys your goods why make them? > Faction type: Magic Number: 81 Mages * 100/Faction: 370 Tax > Regions * 100/Faction: 0 Trade Regions * 100/Faction: 0 > > A lot of pure magic factions. > > One person I spoke to said that a lot of the big alliances > pick 1 faction to be the War faction, one to be the Trade > faction, and everyone else is a magic faction. From my data > I can't tell whether this is true or not, but seems likely. > So, while it seems that Magic is very popular, I don't know > whether this is because people think magic faction are more > fun, or if it is a matter of necessity. Comments? > > Also, it's obvious from this that Trade is not important > enough. There are few trade factions, and even the ones that > are there, aren't producing very much. > > I'll have some comments later on what I want to do to fix > all this in the next Atlantis. > > Geoff Why have more than one war faction (after your alliance gets established) when it can cover (tax) all of your territory. The same goes for trade. This leaves everyone else doing magic since this is the most limited area in Atlantis (I don't know how a faction would actually get close to taxing 100 hexes ... (if someone does they had to start early and I don't want to meet them)). Keith Brors kbrors@mindscape.com ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 17:18:40 -0800 From: jbaclask@adnetsol.com (Jeff Baclaski) Subject: Re: Magic factions. >Well, this is just to add my aggreement. More magic, more users. But one >new (?) suggestion. The ability for several mages to work together to >cast a spell. If one mage knew conctruct, and another fire. Then working >together they could be able to work together. A firery tower (I konw its >silly, but you get the idea). Perhaps powerful spells would require mages from different factions to assist each other simultaneously. This would add allow powerful spells to be balanced by a requirement for cooperation. -Jibe Faction 548 - EMS, Ltd ---------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Atlantis 2.0: Faction comments Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 18:49:19 -0700 From: Anson Winsor <apwinsor@span.CS.UNLV.EDU> I am one of the few trade factions. I am in an alliance that is like Geoff stated. Many magic factions, war factions, war/trade factions, and a trade faction, myself. I can tell you why there are few trade factions. You have no source of income when you start. You cannot even tax one hex to get a base. War factions treat you as if you can't even be allowed to claim a hex by yourself. The feel I am getting in the game is that only war may claim hexes and only war are allowed to forbid access to a hex. A quote from a war faction in my alliance "You can't claim a hex, you can't tax it." Yes, I know the rules allow trade to claim hexes. After all, claiming is only recognized by players, not set up by game rules. So anybody can claim. But it works out that war have the incentive--and the power to claim and enforce that claim. You see, a war can stop others from taxing, but trade doesn't even have that option. Even though you can see others in you hex and you can see that they are producing you cannot stop them unless you ask your Lord War to wipe them out. There should be a way for trade to stop production of resources in their claimed hex. War can guard to stop taxing, why not have a way for Trade to guard to stop someone from taking their source of income. I have found that a lot of trade factions have become slaves to the war factions around them. There is no incentive for trade to get warriors except to defend themselves. Since they have such a hard time getting production up and going, the war around them have already taken over the hexes by the time they want to move out and carve their own empire. Now war has to do that because that is all they can do. But this then stiffles whatever trade would have liked to do. They cannot expand because they have no place to expand to unless a war faction lets them. The war usually tells them that they cannot sell things to other war factions only to themselves and whatever market they happen to be near. Trade to distant towns and cities is not being set up easily because the prices at other cities is not high enough for trade to move the products very far. There is not enough demand and not high enough demand in enough cities for all that trade can produce. The prices should be about what they are for local produce, but there should be that market nearby too. It should be at the similar price or much higher so trade has the incentive to set up trade caravans and regular trade routes. And the magic factions. I know why there are so many of them. My war allies say that there is always room for new mage allies. They don't cost much, just 600 a turn, and they can never be a threat. My alliance has as many mage factions as the rest of us combined. they don't mind having to spend all their time learning spells because that is the fun they have--finding out what new next thing they will learn. You should see them yell when someone publishes what a new spell is and what it does. They hate that. I think that every type of faction should be allowded to tax one hex. I think that mages should be allowed to have more mages in their faction. I don't mind that war can tax 100 or 200 hexes. But trying to be pure trade is very difficult indeed. It has now become a matter of pride to me to succeed as pure trade. I am still very shakey and my units are always on the verge of starving. And would, without handouts from my Lord War factions. Now, it would be ok that for pure trade or pure magic might need to build a building in that hex they want to tax. That is ok. It would be even more incentive for buildings to spring up. In fact, I would like to see a requirement for more buildings to be needed. And different types of buildings would allow different types of income to be enhanced. Nothing wrong to have buildings to be required to produce items or just to increase production of those items. Of course, I was also one of those that wanted more types of skills and implements to be in the game. I feel that, even though it would complicate the game, it would enhance the game by providing richness and variety in it. Anson Winsor (369) Civilian Construction Corps ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 22:58:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Lazarus <llong@io.com> Subject: Re: Atlantis 2.0: Faction comments There is a lot good comments here. What I got from this is: Trade starts too slow. Trade has no income until production is going. Trade has no place to go after they get income. No incentive to build trade caravans because distant goods movement will not pay enough and the citys far away want too few goods that are easy to transport. Wants all faction types to be able to tax at least one hex. Doesn't care what the top limit war has (they will expand and kill selves) Magic should have more mages. ----- I am war trade by default. I need to survive out in the real world of Atlantis. Trade can only slowly start and as of yet, there is no real demand for goods except what we need to equip our war units. The exit city doesn't buy much and I don't know about nearby towns or cities as I haven't been able to get to them yet. Is it possible to set up trade caravans and make some real money like the war factions can do in the plains? Or is the meger rewards the offers of war factions and the small selection and price of the cities? On Wed, 12 Jul 1995, Anson Winsor wrote: > I am one of the few trade factions. I am in an alliance that is like > Geoff stated. Many magic factions, war factions, war/trade factions, > and a trade faction, myself. > > I can tell you why there are few trade factions. You have no source > of income when you start. You cannot even tax one hex to get a base. > War factions treat you as if you can't even be allowed to claim a > hex by yourself. The feel I am getting in the game is that only > war may claim hexes and only war are allowed to forbid access to > a hex. A quote from a war faction in my alliance "You can't claim > a hex, you can't tax it." > > Yes, I know the rules allow trade to claim hexes. After all, claiming > is only recognized by players, not set up by game rules. So anybody > can claim. But it works out that war have the incentive--and the > power to claim and enforce that claim. > > You see, a war can stop others from taxing, but trade doesn't even > have that option. Even though you can see others in you hex > and you can see that they are producing you cannot stop them unless > you ask your Lord War to wipe them out. > > There should be a way for trade to stop production of resources in > their claimed hex. War can guard to stop taxing, why not have a > way for Trade to guard to stop someone from taking their source > of income. > > I have found that a lot of trade factions have become slaves to the > war factions around them. There is no incentive for trade to get > warriors except to defend themselves. Since they have such a hard time > getting production up and going, the war around them have already > taken over the hexes by the time they want to move out and carve their > own empire. > > Now war has to do that because that is all they can do. But this then > stiffles whatever trade would have liked to do. They cannot expand > because they have no place to expand to unless a war faction lets them. > The war usually tells them that they cannot sell things to other war > factions only to themselves and whatever market they happen to > be near. > > Trade to distant towns and cities is not being set up easily because > the prices at other cities is not high enough for trade to move the > products very far. There is not enough demand and not high enough > demand in enough cities for all that trade can produce. > The prices should be about what they are for local produce, but there > should be that market nearby too. It should be at the similar price > or much higher so trade has the incentive to set up trade caravans > and regular trade routes. > > And the magic factions. I know why there are so many of them. > My war allies say that there is always room for new mage allies. > They don't cost much, just 600 a turn, and they can never be a threat. > My alliance has as many mage factions as the rest of us combined. > they don't mind having to spend all their time learning spells > because that is the fun they have--finding out what new next thing > they will learn. You should see them yell when someone publishes what > a new spell is and what it does. They hate that. > > I think that every type of faction should be allowded to tax one hex. > > I think that mages should be allowed to have more mages in their faction. > > I don't mind that war can tax 100 or 200 hexes. But trying to be pure > trade is very difficult indeed. It has now become a matter of pride to > me to succeed as pure trade. I am still very shakey and my units are > always on the verge of starving. And would, without handouts from > my Lord War factions. > > Now, it would be ok that for pure trade or pure magic might need to build > a building in that hex they want to tax. That is ok. It would be even > more incentive for buildings to spring up. > > In fact, I would like to see a requirement for more buildings to be needed. > And different types of buildings would allow different types of income > to be enhanced. Nothing wrong to have buildings to be required to produce > items or just to increase production of those items. > > Of course, I was also one of those that wanted more types of skills > and implements to be in the game. I feel that, even though it would > complicate the game, it would enhance the game by providing richness > and variety in it. > > Anson Winsor (369) > Civilian Construction Corps > ---------------------------------------------------------- From: yaj@cc.gatech.edu (Jay Luo) Subject: Faction comments Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 00:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Some people have been saying that trade factions naturally end up becoming slaves to war factions. I don't think that's really the right analogy. Think of them in terms of the real world instead: war factions are governments, trade factions are corporations and business, and magic factions are scientists and technicians. Naturally, from the big picture, it looks like the governments are running everything in the real world, but I wouldn't say that this means the corporations and scientists are just slaves of the governments. Businesses too provide valuable services, and you cannot just quash them all the time if you want the goods they provide. I play a fairly large war faction and I have dealings with several trade factions. I wouldn't characterize any of them as my "slaves" (despite my enemies' propaganda). They just produce goods, give them to me, and send me a bill. I read the bill and usually just pay it. They aren't producing at swordpoint or anything, and although they sometimes ask 'what would you like produced?' I don't give them details of exactly how I want them to run their game. Some of these factions are even able to produce more goods than I can afford to buy in a given area. I don't really think trade is that bad off. They are slower to start, sure, but after they start up, each of their men is able to produce more cash income than one of my men. As a war faction, I certainly couldn't do without the production of swords and other goods that trade factions offer, and am hotly interested in getting some of the magic items or magical services that mages are offering. I think trade and magic factions are still very valid. Referenced By Up