BSE Digest v195 #269 From: kerry@freeside.fc.net (Kerry Harrison) Date: Tue, 01 Aug 1995 00:00:00 +0000 BSE Digest Monday, 31 July 1995 Volume 195 : Number 269 Welcome to the BSE Digest, the place to discuss all the myriad aspects of life Beyond the Stellar Empire with other denizens of the Greater Periphery. In this issue: + Re: BSE: SAM/PGJ Wat + Onwards.... + Re: BSE: SAM/PGJ Wat + Re: No Subject + Re: BSE: Religion + Re: BSE: Onwards.... + BSE: PJG Claims -Reply + Re: BSE: Rule of Man and gods + Rule of Man + Re: BSE: Some tips on using the Embot program + Re: BSE: Onwards.... + Re: BSE: Onwards.... + clutter + Metals at Ax + Re: BSE: Onwards.... + Re: BSE: ooc...Bashing? Me?..never! + Re: BSE: DRELL (fwd) + Re: BSE: Religion + Re: No Subject + Re: BSE: Onwards.... See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the bse-list and bse-digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: btb4@lehigh.edu (B T Braun) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 06:16:02 EDT Subject: Re: BSE: SAM/PGJ Wat Clarifications are requested. The easiest way to do this is with an echoed "reply", but that doesn't work well in-character. I hope you will forgive my OOC queries regarding an IC post. > The SAM are prosecuting a war of genocide and fratricide > against the PGJ. Which, in your opinion, is it? Why? In this case, it DOES matter. > > The PGJ have a right to exist outside of the HiveMind, > much as we learned to do by necessity many eons ago. Do they have the right to do so in SAM space? > >Exhaustive KZK attempts to negotiate an end to the fratricide >came to no conclusion: The SAM are bent on returning the >"insane" PGJ to the HiveMind or kill them in the attempt. I disagree. Everything I've heard & seen from the SAM indicate that they want, no - NEED (to make the Hive Mind whole again) - their home back. I have never heard any indication that they could not stand for, oh, say a TC PGJ. If it were as you say, they would be attacking you. Actually, based on this post, they MAY be, soon! >We can not allow this. Thus we will remain in a state of >war with the Samillian Empire until such time as they >desist attempts to militarily re-absorb the PGJ. We do >not desire terrotorial or other gain in this strife, only >the end of hostilities between our brother races. Noble, but what's in it for you? War is expensive (see a Prothorax post, if you disagree). Also, consider this: The current TH war started mostly as a FGZ/QSN thing. It's drifted to become mostly a WCE/QSN thing. Are you prepared for the same thing to happen to you? Are you actually so naive as to think that you can create what you evidently consider to be a narrowly defined "gesture", and maintain that limit? Do you actually think that it's up to you how big this thing becomes? If the SAM & PGJ were to come to peace tomorrow, you WILL not automatically be off the hook. > >We do not support the PGJ's demands for territory, only >their right to exist. We do not wish to meet the WCE, >FGZ, AIS or any other TransHole race in violence at this >time, and will not be targeting them during this conflict. A. It's the territory thing that's the problem. Specifically, it's the "right" (I always suspect something funny is going on when someone starts off by resorting to ideology) of the PGJ to inhabit SAM space & attempt to acquire MORE of SAM territory that you are supporting, whether you realize it or not. B. You will, & more. It's not your place to decide how & if the allies of one against whom you've transgressed will respond. > >To this end: The SAM space in the Capellan Periphery, >particularly the planet known as Harlop in the Tesni >system, has come under KZK interdiction. All travellers >are advised to avoid entering Harlop orbit or risk coming >under fire. KZK War Cruisers are already in position >in Harlop orbit to enforce the interdiction. First: Have you interdicted SAM space (the tiny potion not the Interstate), only SAM positions there, only the orbit there, or what? I think your actions may be legal under the IMP, but what about non-SAM contract haulers to the planet? Are you prepared for the ramifications from other groups if they are fired upon? >To the Grand Vizier: >We will return control of the planet Harlop to you upon >your declaration of an end to the war against the PGJ. If >this act is not sufficient in causing you to do so, other >more severe acts will follow. > >K'zk Kasrith-Kazereckii >KZK Central Command > > Somehow, I doubt he's worried. You were placed in an unfortunate position by somone who ditched you. You are a new guy. You are facing one of the hardest, most experienced groups of BSE fighters running one of the most powerful positions in the game, a position they built and know like the back of their collective hand. Is this how you get your jollies? If so, that's fine - it IS a game - but the tone of your note indicates that you just might not realize what you've bitten off here. I certainly hope you aren't following the advice of certain folk whose primary interests are NOT your own. You were offered an out. You elected to not take it. Wise or not, I'd say you've probably passed the point of no return. Rest in peace. I have written this for two reasons. 1. I have seen more new players get screwed over in the last few months by this new "open door" policy being allowed by RTG than in the last 10 years. It's bad for the newbies, it's bad for the game, and ultimately it'll be bad for business. When a new guy shows up, joins the ICN, screws up by thinking he's tough in a DD, there's no harm done, everyone forgets it, and he can go on to play the game. Geoff is going to get burned by this if he's not real careful, and it isn't really his fault. 2. The SAM probably won't say much. This isn't to say that they need me to speak for them, they don't, as Dick & Don have eloquently shown on more than one occasion. However, I suspect that Geoff has placed them in a position where, sooner or later, they will no longer be as forgiving as they've been up to now. They might eliminate the PGJ first, ignoring Geoff, until they decide that they think it really was a bad idea for any non-SAM Samillians at all, and ->poof<- there goes Geoff. If there is any way to prevent this very likely elimination of a bit of Periphery diversity, it's only going to come by one last plea. This was it. To the SAM: Let your conscience be your guide. As they say in the initiation rites of the Order of the Big Shiny Helmet: He knoweth not what he sheareth. Be seeing you, Brad Braun btb4@lehigh.edu ///////////////////*********************************************\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ USS: Sheepwrights to the stars since 186. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ------------------------------ From: Jackmyster@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 07:24:31 -0400 Subject: Onwards.... Okay...let's try this. I know that once your in the "driver's seat" your views and how you do things, can change. Prior to becoming Godfather, I too was somewhat of a loose cannon. Once I took over the FGZ, I had to change as well. So, like I said before, we'll see. (I'm tired of this topic...) However, one thing that I am "upset" about.... I was just recently told that Kerry has now gone DTR...IF this is true, I am going to complain. Since RTG took over BSE, Kerry has been in three different AFFs. He has "strong" working knowledge of all 3. I think this is *unfair* (or at least ridiculous.) Pete and Thad: I want to let you guys know that I *do not* like this one bit! IF other players were to swicth AFFs three times in one year, where would "we" be? Everyone would know everything about everyone....(consider this a "formal complaint") Bests- Jack Ferguson P.S. "The opinions expressed are mine...unless I stole them" ------------------------------ From: Jackmyster@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 07:28:08 -0400 Subject: Re: BSE: SAM/PGJ Wat Brad: Well put... J. ------------------------------ From: Jackmyster@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 07:28:09 -0400 Subject: Re: No Subject In a message dated 95-07-31 00:55:07 EDT, you write: >Nothing like the FGZ double-speak... <OOC: Whatever happened to all I >will say from now on is *IC*? Is this a personal anymosity you have >towards Richard, or what?> I was...then I made one little commit and everyone decided to jump my stuff about it, and not being the one to stay silent....Well, you know. As for Richard...I don't hate the guy, I just know he has lied, openly...just to give a few examples: 1. He was telling the Companies that I had given the IMPs BSs...which at the time was not ture! No one had any BSs except for the FGZ...But, he was telling the AFFs this to rally them around the QSN cause. 2. The mysterious magical moving SoLs. These ships (in Merolla) weren't being played, so they couldn't be moved. Well, as it turns out, they did move...and Richard has yet to clarify this one. He also told all the AFFs that I only gave the QSN 2 weeks to move the SoLs...also untrue. I gave Jackson at least 2 months to move them... 3. The "unWar" with the FGZ.... This is not to bring up the past all over again, but understand, when I decide how I "feel" about someone, it's because of what they do...As I've said in the past, I'm a nice guy. I believe in giving people every opertunaty. But once you've proven to me you can't be trusted...Hey, that's it! You guys get the "warm fuzzies" over Richard and the PGJ all you want to...I'll pass. Bests- J. P.S. Flame me in private...not openly. I'll respond to private messages in private, public messages in public. ------------------------------ From: Scragg@infi.net (Cap'n Scragg) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 08:27:09 -0400 Subject: Re: BSE: Religion > >And now, some words from the Rev. "Bubba" Smith, > >Demon gods, Bug War Gods, and Fascists! Verily Ah say unto you, >bruthuhs & sistahs, that thay are all pink boys, for thay seeketh to >deny total slack! For did not the lord *BOB* donneth of the holy >bowling shirt, and poppeth the top on a cold one for our sins. Does >not *BOB*, from whom all slack cometh, deliver all that he promises >(providing you read the fine print)? Ah say unto you, give up your >pink boy ways and walk the path of total slack. > >Thank y'all, > >Rev. Bubba Smith >Our Lady of the Holy Monster Truck Rally, Church of *BOB* > Amen brother! Praise be *Bob* and the Miller brewing company! Cap'n Scragg, Slacker and follower of *Bob* ------------------------------ From: Scragg@infi.net (Cap'n Scragg) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 08:27:11 -0400 Subject: Re: BSE: Onwards.... >Pete and Thad: I want to let you guys know that I *do not* like this one bit! >IF other players were to swicth AFFs three times in one year, where would >"we" be? Everyone would know everything about everyone....(consider this a >"formal complaint") > >Bests- >Jack Ferguson > >P.S. "The opinions expressed are mine...unless I stole them" > I kind of agree. Theres no rule against switching affiliations and I have done this myself. If RTG is going to allow this I say there should be a six month waiting period where you have NO POSITIONS active in the game if you switch races or governements. Going from say GTT to SSL is really no big deal as long as ships ONLY are being transfered. But going from ICN to SAM makes little sense and you should be forced to start from scratch and take nothing with you. Colonies are another matter. They have always been the property of an affiliation. If a compnay, race or governemnt wants to sell a colony there should be a company/govenment/race wide refferendum before the sale will go through. Placing a long waiting period on jumping races and affiliations will still allow people to do it but will discourage people from jumping around like that. There is also a self policeing aspect of jumping affiliations. Say you switch affiliations two or three times in a short time span, how many people are really going to trust you? Anyone that shares all their secrets with someone like this is a fool. Later Joe ------------------------------ From: PKRAUSKOPF@FALCON.AL.WPAFB.AF.MIL Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 08:46:07 -0400 Subject: BSE: PJG Claims -Reply The Whitehole Colonial Empire Recognizes the Samillian Empire as the sole and rightful owners of all systems in the Interstate. This is per the Transhole Accords concluded earlier this year. The WCE sanctions any and all actions by the Samillians to enforce these claims. In addition, in accordance with these accords, the WCE hereby prohibits any WCE position from trading with the PGJ, for the duration of the hostilities. Lord Secretary Horst Treyder ------------------------------ From: Michael.Keane@maf.nasa.gov Date: 31 Jul 95 08:12:04 -0600 Subject: Re: BSE: Rule of Man and gods On Sun, 30 July 1995 Jackmyster@aol.com wrote: ><Last time he graced my unworthy self > > >Fitting. > >V'Ril, may I suggest you start preying... > >Lord Den of Earth > D.O.A (Den of Arth) Been there, done that. Remember Target? Ask the USS about Texas. - ------------------------------ And then Jackmyster@aol.com added: > >praying that is...<g> > Done that too (although it's fun for the FOE, it's kind of hard on the locals). Ask the Celtians (the ones that survived). Do not kill off all the silly RoS (Rule of Spam) humans if they are stupid enough to visit Neverwhere. Their rantings are quite amusing. Notice how they respond with threats to you and other humans, but will not reply to the FOE. If you capture any I am willing to pay top stellar for them (they would make an interesting sacrifice to Foebeus, Praise be His Name!). V'Ril T'Bak, Ruler FOE Target (OOC: Gees Jack, why don't you say something about Wade's wife and Steve's mom and piss off the rest of the known universe <G>. Even trying to be an undiplomatic FOE, I can't get that kind of response, sigh. <g> Just to be clear, these are *jokes*, I picked the PD's of powerful AFF for emphasis, no other reason. No offense intended.) ------------------------------ From: PKRAUSKOPF@FALCON.AL.WPAFB.AF.MIL Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 09:43:39 -0400 Subject: Rule of Man Dear Rule of Man, Do you intend to write up a history and merge it in with the rest of the History document? It would be quite interesting, I think, to see how you went from your KKK beginnings (or soem similar group), to your current organization (which seems to be color blind with respect to all humans). Or was this something brand new created when humans first encountered aliens? Phil K. ------------------------------ From: Kerry Harrison <kerry@freeside.fc.net> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 09:47:14 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: BSE: Some tips on using the Embot program On Sun, 30 Jul 1995, B T Braun wrote: > For a dead robot, this Embot sure gets around.... It's not my Embot that's doing that - it's somebody else's. Kerry ------------------------------ From: Christopher Allen <gtt-pd@consensus.com> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 08:28:30 -0700 Subject: Re: BSE: Onwards.... At 4:24 AM 7/31/95, Jackmyster@aol.com wrote: >I was just recently told that Kerry has now gone DTR...IF this is true, I am >going to complain. Since RTG took over BSE, Kerry has been in three different >AFFs. He has "strong" working knowledge of all 3. I think this is *unfair* >(or at least ridiculous.) > >Pete and Thad: I want to let you guys know that I *do not* like this one bit! >IF other players were to swicth AFFs three times in one year, where would >"we" be? Everyone would know everything about everyone....(consider this a >"formal complaint") I have to agree with Jack on this one, but not specifically just Kerry (formerly WCE, formerly KZK, now DTR), but also Richard Chiang (formerly QSN, now PGJ) and some other moves that I've heard about. I am also very concerned about letting relatively new players become PDs of affiliations with often significant assets. For instance, I just found out last weekend that DW Ashe, a player of few months is now DTR PD. I've also heard that a number of draconian races are now headed by new players (which may be ok if they are small.) Another concern is the sudden proliferation of new affiliations, or old NPC affiliations becoming PC. I like Kerry and Richard, and I have found doing business with them profitable. I also found DW Ashe refreshing, so as players I have no problems with any of this group. My issue is more with the general concept of easy affiliation change and offering too much to new players. Possibly part of my 'resentment' here is due to the fact that I've found it very difficult to attract new players to the GTT. I've worked hard over the past year to convert GTT's assets from 'boring' into an affiliation a new player might be more interested in. But when new players see how easy it is to get an entire affiliations with 10+ colonies, or into affiliations offering unquique tech, 3 colonies and 3 ships to anyone who asks, I think things have gone too far. At the rate things are going every player is going to have his own personal race or affiliation, with possibly a friend or two to help. If that is RTGs plan then I need know, as it makes for a very different game. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ .. Marshall Whispers, Chairman & CEO aka Christopher Allen .. .. Galactic Transport & Trade 4104-24th Street #391 .. .. GTT HQ, GTT Colony Gaspree (#1656) San Francisco, CA 94114-3615 .. .. Petroom (17-38) in Newbian System (#2) home 415/647-6401 .. .. <GTT-PD@consensus.com> No calls after 9pm or before 9am Pacific! .. ------------------------------ From: Scragg@infi.net (Cap'n Scragg) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 11:55:21 -0400 Subject: Re: BSE: Onwards.... >At the rate things are going every player is going to have his own personal >race or affiliation, with possibly a friend or two to help. If that is RTGs >plan then I need know, as it makes for a very different game. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ How about we ask RTG not to add any more races or let anyone switch groups until every existing group has at least 10 or 20 active players in them. Most groups probably have that many already. some of the smaller ones just need a little beefing up. Joe ------------------------------ From: "JASON GOFF" <JGOF4P1@S1.csc.peachnet.edu> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 13:44:26 EST Subject: clutter I agree with Joe. This is getting a little out of hand. ------------------------------ From: "JASON GOFF" <JGOF4P1@S1.csc.peachnet.edu> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 13:49:28 EST Subject: Metals at Ax If you're going to Ax to sell it metals, your outta luck. Somebody's sold me all 30,000. I'll get them back on the maket asap. Jason Goff 11 Avalon way Riverdale, GA 30274 404-478-0945 JGOF4P1@S1.CSC.PEACHNET.EDU ------------------------------ From: btb4@lehigh.edu (B T Braun) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 14:14:14 EDT Subject: Re: BSE: Onwards.... >There is also a self policeing aspect of jumping affiliations. Say you >switch affiliations two or three times in a short time span, how many people >are really going to trust you? Anyone that shares all their secrets with >someone like this is a fool. Bingo! Be seeing you, Brad Braun btb4@lehigh.edu ///////////////////*********************************************\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ USS: Sheepwrights to the stars since 186. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ------------------------------ From: PROTHORAX@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 17:20:32 -0400 Subject: Re: BSE: ooc...Bashing? Me?..never! (ooc) we like to roled sampoon vs the human scotch?! later david ------------------------------ From: PROTHORAX@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 17:17:09 -0400 Subject: Re: BSE: DRELL (fwd) QSN Warlox creature, We see the Warlox does not hide in a field of smoke as other QSN creatures?! The spider WaSP are not welcomed in Drell! JANUS PROTHORAX ------------------------------ From: PROTHORAX@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 18:07:33 -0400 Subject: Re: BSE: Religion (ooc) save us all! Laying of hands?! ha, ha, later david ------------------------------ From: PROTHORAX@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 18:11:09 -0400 Subject: Re: No Subject (ooc) in responce to the buddy-ness of the WaSP to the WCE is in line here. We won our objectives. There was over a great period of time and a gradual increase of possitive responce from the WCE. Small gains build to bigger relationships (trade ect). This WCE/WSP thing didn't happen over night. You don't see the WSP and FGZ flying around do you? We just agreed not to long ago to stop snarling and showing our teeth(mandibles) at each other! later david ------------------------------ From: Henry4633@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 18:51:54 -0400 Subject: Re: BSE: Onwards.... you work hard yet right PETER ------------------------------ End of BSE Digest V195 #269 *************************** BSE Digest - All items Copyright (c) 1995, by their respective authors, permission is granted to redistribute as long as proper credit is given. 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