Quest Digest 24/12/95 From: ">>-Josh->" <J.P.Gallagher@durham.ac.uk> Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 00:00:00 +0000 ___ _ / _ \ | | Christmas Eve Edition | |_| |UEST__| |IGEST \__ | / _ | | |_ | |_| | An e-mail discussion forum for the fantasy |_ / \___/ play by mail game; "Quest". Compiled by=20 Josh Gallagher. J.P.Gallagher@durham.ac.uk o This isn't one of those automatic list thingies, so could all=20 articles be sent clearly marked with paragraphs initalled to me. o If you want off the list, just say! No hassle, no pressure. o All material here is the exclusive property of the author and may not be used elsewhere without their permission. o For answers to specific Quest-related questions, you may want to get in touch with the Quest Helpline; queries sent to quest-help@kokodan.vivi.c= om will be sent to a panel of experienced Quest players, who will endeavour to answer your problems quickly. Thanks to Bruce Cota for his help. ___ / _ \ Christmas greetings to all Digest readers!=20 | __/DITORIAL I decided not to do a digest on Christmas day, as I'll be t= oo \___| busy with food and presents and things, so this is the=20 official Christams edition. Thank you to all those that se= nt Christmas greetings - much appreciated. :) Thanks also for all the=20 articles for this edition... it's quite a big issue today, be warned! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 01:12:28 GMT From: Larkin <colm@internet-eireann.ie> > JIM - A long time ago, I stole a skull off of some group, > and have been unable to find a use for it. Does anybody know > what I can do with it, or is just another (mirror type) > useless item? I can't recall seeing one for sale, so I dont > know how much its worth either. JL>Yes, I have seen them, they cost one or two gps, and... they do absolutl= y nothing!!! The only reason they are in the game is for crappy quests that you do when you first start playing quest and then realise it wasn't worth the 200 gp! Same as glass orbs and so on. Do religious books actually do anything? Do you think they are worth the 4000gp? >AH> Well they've only just appeared in the shops in Blockboro in G3. Mind= =20 >you in G3 I have not seen anywhere that sells scalemail or platemail=20 >either. I havent seen all the shop lists but I've visited at least 13 of= =20 >the cities with no sign of them. JL>Well I can tell you that scalemail does exist, but it isn't worth the 600gp as they weigh a ton, five of my men got it ages ago and were sufferin= g from over 20% encumbrance with very little else.I have also seen platemail, it is quite expensive though, your best bet is to buy magic armour. >PN> Indeed, I've just started up an evil alliance in G16 which is enemy of= =20 >everyone, attack innocent groups? well they had warnings, I have repaetedl= y put=20 >in the paper & rumours don't come to Fentham or you die, but still players= of=20 >no renown turn up, and are battered beyond recognition. A prime example is= the=20 >group outside town that I wiped out, also a group just turned up in town a= nd=20 >was found on a late turn, they also will not have a group by the end of th= e=20 >turn. If the warning ain't enough then they deserve a kicking just to show them=20 >we're serious. JL>I want to join it, (S&M), I don't know if i will have mailed you by now, if not drop me a line. >PN> If you ask me I reckon it would be alright if the alliance money=20 >dissapeared if there was either no initial cost to put up or if you need o= nly=20 >do it once or if you didn't have to paly a turn fee for the skill. Remembe= r=20 >that 30k is alot of money for a new official alliance (unless your in an= =20 >oldgame and have an old group) if you have to put another 20k for strength it's=20 >a bit much not to see any of it returned. Plus whats this 50k for a new HQ= ?=20 >Surely once established a new HQ should be cheaper than the original rathe= r=20 >than more?!=20 JL>Sounds good to me, as does free strenght training (apart from the initia= l entrance fee). >PN> I just got the battle reports from game one back, it seems two groups= =20 >fought monks, Phyloqure and Fleyshur. Both lost the battle with 9 and 8 wounded=20 >to none of the monks wounded. Plus weapons the order of the day for sure. = By=20 >the way did anyone know that you can get weapon skill over 100%? You can I have=20 >seen 2 examples of such skills. JL>Try 'enchant weapons III' it works a treat! >I ressurected the dead priest this turn. Two turns after being killed. It = cost >8028 gold to have 50KV shoved up his arse, 2000 gp less than what was retu= rned >from investigating the char. But on that turn he had rotted slightly losin= g >3 Sk, 4 To, 2 Aw and 3 Ch. Time is definately not on your side. JL>that sounds quite expensive which is how it should be! what were your characters original skills? Thats good as I just killed 5 of 'Swords of Destiny' (in game six) so it won't be too easy for him to ressurect them... Keep the swods sharp, =20 John Larkin. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 02:52:51 +0100 (MET) From: Stefan Andersson <t94stean@und.ida.liu.se> SA> SPOILER WARNING! Below is the complete (?) list of the new monsters. Jump some lines if you don't want to know about them. 893 Whompers 894 Gatherers 895 Nimrods 896 Katrims 897 Leprechauns 898 Wall Dwellers 899 Sky-Rays 900 Mist Reavers 901 Knight-Lores 902 Xoroas 903 Bandits 904 Farmers 905 Monks of Baldor 906 Monks of Garthrana 907 Monks of Sundonak 908 Monks of Fleyshur 909 Monks of Ythcal 910 Monks of Molwanh 911 Monks of Phyloqure 912 NO MONSTER! 913-> ??? SA> Found a dwarven fighter with skill 60 and toughness 82, guess=20 the skill is rather unbeatable, or...? And due to an input error=20 by someone at KJC I almost missed it, my fifteenth character's name was misspellt in the xpel order so I never recruited the DF, but they corrected their error...=20 SA> I just want to express my anger over groups who challenge other groups with this type of challenge: "Name a place and we meet you there with 100% flee factor, with or without deathspells". Ok, if they are tired of playing their groups, that's fine, but at least I don't want to throw away four years of=20 playing in a stupid fight! And to all of you who make these challenges, dont you DARE call anyone turning such a challenge down a coward! SA> I totally agree with Paul Noble in his points about the game being unbalanced. To deal with the "death"-spells it should be enough making Deflect Magic 3 stronger or implement a new Deflect Magic-type of spell working against Voids, Globes and Total Deaths. Maybe a resurrection spell, to be cast at the end of the magic phase, resurrecting any eventual deaths that might have happened. And the protection against death-magic should only be available for highly skilled mages, the groups between the beginner= s and very old SHOULD fear the veteran groups, period! The improvement of the fighter is very welcome, making them now ages better than the priests in fighting.=20 SA> MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU ALL!!!=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 9:50:36 GMT From: I wanna live like common ppl <roger.littlefair@unn.ac.uk> RoJ>=09Res costs a character stats? Wonder how long you can go before =09ressurection doesn`t work. Is there a chance of seeing negative =09charisma? It`s a Greg campaign all over again! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jonas Nelson, KTH" <NELSON@l.kth.se> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 09:59:48 +0100 From: "Jonas Nelson" <NELSON@l.kth.se> > PN> Indeed, I've just started up an evil alliance in G16 which is enemy o= f=20 > everyone, attack innocent groups? well they had warnings, I have repaeted= ly put=20 > in the paper & rumours don't come to Fentham or you die, but still player= s of=20 > no renown turn up, and are battered beyond recognition. A prime example i= s the=20 > group outside town that I wiped out, also a group just turned up in town = and=20 > was found on a late turn, they also will not have a group by the end of t= he=20 > turn. If the warning ain't enough then they deserve a kicking just to sho= w them=20 > we're serious. JN> I'm getting more and more convinced that the NA option was a good move by KJC in order to keep new groups alive and the new players happy. I'm NOT saying that it's good for the game, but as long as you and your likes set the Kharne rules, KJC has to adapt the Quest rules to keep attracting new customers (i.e. new money). If every city had its own"town bully" that excelled in killing off new and weaker groups, then how much fun would these newcomers get out of the game? (We all know that the road to fortune=20 lies in the cities, don't we?) > > PJC> Which powerful groups enjoy running around and killing brand new p= arties? > CMD> I ain't naming names, but there are people like that in this world..= . :-( Yep - and the last Digest just proved it (and gave you some names=20 too...)=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jens Loesel <jl@solid.anorg.chemie.uni-frankfurt.de> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 12:03:07 -0800 > JIM - A long time ago, I stole a skull off of some group, > and have been unable to find a use for it. Does anybody know > what I can do with it, or is just another (mirror type) > useless item? I can't recall seeing one for sale, so I dont > know how much its worth either JL: The price of a skull in shops is 1 !! gold. You get them (very seldom) in temples of Baldor. There are quests out, to buy them and dilever them somewhere else. I don't think, they have any use. > One small problem. I tried to pay tithe to a Baldor Temple, they took my > 72 gold but I have got nothing in return, what is the use of this tithe?? JL: If you have a priest below skill 50 and P 0 doesn't work, a tithe starts your skill going up again. Above skill 50 it may increase your chance of fgoing up in skill. Also if you tithe, your allignment goes in the direction of the god you tithe for. This is everything you can use tithe for. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: list_s@svhdev.bt.co.uk (Stuart List, PST PP201, Tel. Ipswich 293433) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 11:47:42 +0000 Roy Thomas passes the digest on to me. I have a party in game 10 (any other= s out there?) which I'm ok with. They've gone NA to prevent re-occurence of a previous incident in which they were attacked for no reason by another part= y (who came off worse, but that's another story!). I would suggest that parti= es should only be able to go NA if their alignment is neutral, or at least certainly not evil. This might go a long way to satisfying some of the disatisfied.=20 Stu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 17:12:59 -0600 From: Erling Solheim <solheim@james.avh.unit.no> This is a respond to Paul Noble, about our (lack of) conversation in game 1= 4.=20 I hope we solve everything out with this, and I hope we might have many interesting debates in the future. PN>But I received a letter apologising for the attack and asking for=20 >information. Perhaps I was foolish to accept his offer of friendship for= =20 >despite sending two letters over about 4 months I still did not receive a= =20 >reply, not even a rumour of message in the newspaper. ES>Well, I want to close this "debate" once and for all, and tell you what happened, from my point of view. Having played as a GM in D&D for several years, without having played any charactres myself as my friends were quite egoistic ( we did the same campaigne all the time), I really looked forward to play a PBM like Quest. Now I had the chance of playing RPGs myslef. I se= t myself the goal of getting a tough and highskilled group, and I wanted to stay away from battles. But as Quest has far too few monsters wandering in the wilderness, and I didn't wanna spend orders on E-orders, a hostile attitude suited my group well. So I wanted to have lots of battles but at the same time build up my party. I've never attacked any party on purpose, but I've had some meetings, and I must admit that those fights are the best ones, as they were the only "risky" and long-lasting fights. But I tried to stay away from them, avoiding getting slayed myself. Unfortunately I bumped into your group by accident, and I hit you quite well. I sent you an apologise, and at that time I hadn't had contact with any players for quite some time, in fact I have written to several players, but only a couple hav= e answered my letters over the years. So, why didn't I respond to you? Well, as we all know, things actually happen in the real world too, and last autumn/winter, at the time you wrote, my girlfriend broke up and left our apartment, having lived together for years. Playing PBM didn't have top priority at that time. So I got about 15 weeks behind in the game, and only sent in a turn now and then to keep the position alive. Thats the reason, and I do really not have so much more to say. Then some months passed, and = I started playing the position again. =20 PN>would deal with any other group in G14 as they had the Fools (new name for my=20 >group).=20 ES> My message meant "stay away", or I would completely destroy your group. Having read you "war-pact" in the newsletter, I decided, for the first time= , to attack an other group, as I in a kind of way enjoyed your anger upon me. I found your group first, and I attacked you through a stealing-order. I hope you understand that I might have exterminated your whole group at that point, and perhaps I should have done so, but I thought this attack should be enough. I then went dungeoneering again, and then this NA-order came, which suited MY (certainly not yours) gaming objectivities. I'm still hostile and like fighting, but unfortunately I don't take part in Kharne-politics. =20 I really don't think we have any problem at all, it's just that we enjoy different aspects of the game, and I think the problem about the NA-order and group vs. group-fighting is that KJC haven't programmed the game so tha= t it suits any kind of player, whatever kind of aspect of the game the player focus upon. You seem to PRIMARILY enjoy group vs. group warfare and alliance-diplomacy, while I tend to favour exploration, dungeoneering and building up a group over years. But I do think you are somewhat "blind" whe= n it comes to understanding some of the other players' view about the game, a= s you from my point of view seem to interpret things only according to the wa= y you understand the game objectives. To end this debate about what happened in our groups meetings; what can happen due to lack of correspondance; and the problem about NA vs. alliance-wars, I would like to say that I hope things are ok between us now= , and that there is place enough for any kind of player in this game that we all enjoy, in one way or another. =20 I saw one article written by you at "Dynamic games". I really liked it, mor= e of that! All the best, Erling the Berserker. Erling Solheim Student at the University of Trondheim, Norway E-mail:solheim@james.avh.unit.no -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 16:34:30 +0000 (GMT) From: Allan Hooper <A.O.Hooper@herts.ac.uk> > PN> I heard of some talk about being able to hit NA parties with spells= =20 > is this true? AH> I too have heard rumours that NA groups can be attacked in some way and= =20 apparently some players have got nasty letters from KJC about them doing so= . > PN> Indeed, I've just started up an evil alliance in G16 which is enemy o= f=20 > everyone, attack innocent groups? AH> Has any experianced player ever started a good alliance? ;). Surely=20 it would be more of a challenge? Yeah originally having an evil group was= =20 harder as no-one would like you and thus be less likely to share info=20 with you. But now all the vital info is well documented most experainced=20 players seem to play evil groups. Imagine actually having your group=20 <gulp> _liked_ as well as feared! Then again my two groups are both evil=20 so I'm not one to talk, but if I started a new group... ;). JPG> Good alliances just don't seem to have a _purpose_ unless there is=20 an evil alliance for them to fight against. Speaking from the stand=20 point of running (kinda) a good alliance here... > PN> It gets me that not only have they inputted resurrection, depetrify (= if=20 > petrification wasn't useless with that power drain, it is now!) AH> Its 500 for depetrify but 1000+ for ressurection, hmmm. So if you kill= =20 someone with petrify you _SAVE_ them money overall? Interesting idea=20 that. If they had pertified Daves priest it would have saved him over=20 7500gp's? Damn good spell that petrify. > CMD> I think that a no NA game for war hungry players is a good idea. > Personally I think the idea of a closed-ended Quest game (50 or 100 parti= es > to start with, specific victory conditions to aim for, both for players a= nd > alliances, once all these victory conditions have been achieved, the game > reverts to normal open-ended Quest, possibly with transport to another > "finished" closed-ended game) is ideal. AH> A sort of Quest "Gang V's Gang"? Yeah why not, it wouldnt take too=20 much effort. But I'd rather see the effort invested into making Quest=20 more _open ended_ than into more of a war game. Some things to make=20 quest more open ended: Dont flog everything of value in cities. Perhaps plus gear mainly=20 found in dungeons? NPC's offering training/quests? Penalties on thieving and TQ less well paid. Quests that require more time/effort than TQ's. Only simple spells learned by knowing the spell number. High powered=20 spells have to be found/researched individually by each group. Perhaps=20 learn/buy spells off NPC's or found again deep in dungeons. Mages tomes=20 store these high power spells but the tome can be stolen, burnt, etc. Weird/rare components like unicorn horns, giant toads eyes, etc. for=20 powerfull spells (it might even start a player operated market). Learn to= =20 use crystal balls for scrying, mages prisms for storing magic points,=20 skulls for voodo, etc. Invest shed loads of cash on one super mage or=20 several goodish ones.=20 Basically anything to get groups off their arses and give them something to do other than hang around cities killing each other. Anyway I seem=20 to have gone ranting about my ideal game (Neil Benson are you listening?!). -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bent C Dalager <bcd@pvv.unit.no> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 06:02:11 +0100 (MET) here is the form I use to send EMail turns to KJC. You may wish to put it in the next digest, will probably be useful for people. Do note that I have used ASCII characters other than those that KJC said we should. Those extra= s that I have used are standard ASCII, and should cause no trouble. At least, they didn't complain about the turn I mailed them earlier. Also note that t= he form is 39 characters wide, so you could fit in two side-by-side and save KJC some paper if you send in several turns at once. -------------------------------------- QUEST Turn Card ---------------------------------BcD95 Party Name ___________________________ Your Name __________________ Game#___ Party No ____ /-------------------\ | New Address: | Account No ____ | | | | /---------------\| | |Special Orders || | | || | | |\-------------------/ | | 8 1 2 /------------\ | | \|/ |Money Incl.:| | | 7-+-3 | | | | /|\ | | \---------------/ 6 5 4 \------------/ Order # 1>=20 Order # 2>=20 Order # 3>=20 Order # 4>=20 Order # 5>=20 Order # 6>=20 Order # 7>=20 Order # 8>=20 Order # 9>=20 Order #10>=20 Order #11>=20 Order #12>=20 Order #13>=20 Order #14>=20 Order #15>=20 Chat list> _____________ _____________ _____________ _____________ -------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 09:33:57 -0600 From: Erling Solheim <solheim@james.avh.unit.no> Hello Josh! I send you something that I planned to send to KJC, about upgrades/ the future developments in Quest. Do you think it's ok? JPG> Included below for comments, Erling... :) I cna also tell that on my last turn I ws offered 1800 per character for defeating 5 monks of Sundonak 10 sectors away. That would give me 27000 if = I make it! Has anyone met Sundonak monks this far? And do you think I can kil= l them by casting wraths? I hope so. JPG> Hmm... If you have Enchant Weapons III, lots of health and very good= =20 fighters, you might be alright... Can anyone tell me why teleportation doesn't work from settlements? Is teleport only for the use of getting away in battles, and as battles with spellcasting isn't an option anymore in settlements, teleport won't have it's function in settlements? Does it only work in wilderness and when you escape from fights? What I would like to see programmed into the game of Quest: 1) Mixed monstergroups. A balrog together with orcs, a few trolls together with some kobolds etc. This would give the game more of a traditional RPG-feeling. 2) Catacombs under the cities and some towns. One entrance into the catacom= b from each suburb to avoid parties staying in one place and killing parties that go down. The catacombs should be filled with thieves, murderers, sick citizens, rats, snakes, undeads etc. 3) Leaders of monstergroups and npc-parties should be named. In quests you should be told something like =ABFind the murderer =ABThor the strangler=BB= and kill him. He is said to be the leader of monstergroup 3456. This group of thieves and murderers is said to be hiding deep down in the catacombs=BB. 4) New house in settlements: Arena. This building should offer combats that would suit every kind of party (The computer would have to estimate a fair opponent for the party). The party would decide if they would take on fight= s that =ABgo to the deaths of one side=BB or just =ABto win=BB (different =AB= buying=BB). Each party would be allowed one battle each turn. These battles wouldn't give the party much gold, but they might get some experience and finding some monsters to fight wouldn't be any problem for the player, as I've know= n many players that have dropped playing due to not finding any monsters to fight. But the main purpose with this arena would be to balance the fightin= g environment for groups that would like to fight each other. I'm tired of hearing about parties that group together and kill other parties, ambushing the other duelist that come to the sector the combatants have agreed to fight at etc. Too many parties are being whiped out due to unfair playing, so my idea to solve this is this arena. Here parties could meat each other in an environment that is familiar to the old arenas in ancient Rome. The order would be as follows: B 99 shopnumber party . If the other party has issued the same order on their turn, the two duelants would meet in a duel in the arena, fighting to their set flee-factor. To avoid =ABkilling=BB the other contestant with spells before or after the match, this must be solved in a way that the =ABwaiting party=BB (the party that is fighting between t= urns) is protected by the arenaguards and is not affected by spells. This means that some sneaky players would misuse this option to stay =ABspell-protecte= d=BB in settlements through dueling parties that are fictive, but there must be some solution to this problem. But I think this arene-solution would be better than how the situation is like today even without this spellprotection for the waiting party. Parties should also have the oportunity to meet =ABanyone=BB between turns, or to meet anyone from a mentioned alliance. (B 99 shopnumber 0, or B 99 shopnumber 113). With =ABanyone=BB I mean that you should chance to see what opponent you might m= eet if anyone else give the same =ABanyone=BB order during their turn. If no on= e show up, you should start your turn with a battle against a monstergroup that is moderated to your partys abilities by the computer. One last thing that might be difficult to program is to let single characters from parties fight each other or a monster or monstergroup (B characternumber shopnumber partynumber/0/alliance/monsterduel). You would only fight the other party i= f this other party specify a single character. Graveyard: Would give meaning to most questplayers' question about where al= l those slayed characters usually end up (there should be some 1000s of corpses I believe after all these years). Should be input if you take a loo= k at =ABsugested miracles=BB somewhere later in this article. 5) New spells: Locate dungeon. Would show caves, dungeons and lairs on your map. Radius covered by the spell would be a result of the mages skill. Regeneration I, II and III: Would need 45, 60 or 80 in skill, would affect = a single character, some characters or the whole party. Imagine the experienc= e from these battles! I think it's important that this spell is not a miracle= , as it should benefit those groups who have weak characters (mages). 6) New miracles: I've been thinking about how I would have liked these to be, and here are some sugestions: #1: Resurrection: Just like what a temple might offer you. But this spell should also be possible to cast at other parties. This way alliances might back up their weaker groups, or accidents like =ABbumped into a young party and killed 3 of their members=BB would be easy to do well again, offering resurrection to the dead characters. #2: This one is worse. What about =ABGarthranas armour=BB, meaning that oth= er parties need +weapons or other magic to hit your members. #3: Sundonaks hammmer: This would be similar to the viking god Thors hammer= , if he threw it against an opponent it would allways hit the enemy, and it would allways come back to his hand afterwards. This weapon would last only for this single battle, and it could be used both in the missile and melee phase. #4: Demon: The caster of this miracle would turn himself into a demon. Depending upon the skill of the caster, the demon would get more abilities, as multiple attacks each turn and regeneration. #5: Create undead: If you loose or win a battle doesn't matter. If you have a dead body you should be able to create an undead that would be part of th= e party or come with the party as some kind of follower. This undead characte= r would not be able to carry any gold or items, but should help the party in battles. I think these undeads should be added to the normal 15 members, an= d that each priest in the party should be allowed to control only one undead. The caster shouldn't move to far away from Ythcal before he looses control of the undead who will then leave the party (and might perhaps even attack his creator). The kind of undead the character turn out to be depend upon the priests skill. A lowskilled priest would create a skeleton, while a highskilled priest would be allowed to create a lich out of a dead mages body. A body should also be possible to find on a graveyard. This =ABshop= =BB in settlement could be added, and parties doing a W order might find/steal a dead body, or perhaps they will find something else? I don't think this miracle should be able to cast at an other party, as some players (the usua= l ones) might cast it at younger parties to avoid them getting back into the game. But against veteran groups this might have added the possibility of not making it possible for your enemy to resurrect his dead characters. #6: Pest: This miracle would make the victims very sick, making chaos in th= e civilized settlements, etc. My idea is that this spell might also be cast a= t parties, parties that you don't want to stay in the settlement. The affecte= d party will be thrown out of the settlement if it doesn't get rid of the sickness during the turn they find out that they desperately need some healing. This spell should not be a combat miracle, and it kills very slowly, but the affected party will be abandoned from the settlement if it'= s not cured. Players who discovers that their party is affected will most probably be thrown out of town during one of the next turns, but the pest can be healed through normal healing. But usually the citizens won't believ= e that they really are cured, and they must usually wait for some time outsid= e the settlement or wander to an other settlement. The spell shouldn't allway= s work, and it might also turn back at the caster if it's used too often. #7: Novalas secret: Would give the party some hints about where wealth can be found. This could be information about which shops might be easy to rob, wealthy parties, buried treasures etc. The information might not allways be true, and Novala might sometimes trick you and lead you into a trap of some kind. #8: Wisdom: This miracle would give you information about something that yo= u have put on your chatlist. I often find it difficult to get such information, and this could be the solution to find out more about named things in the game, as map-locations, settlements, new spells, etc. #0: The neutral miracle should allow parties to move to places where immortals live/ mega-dungeons etc. More of that later. 7) As not all players (like me) has had too much contact with official alliances, and don't like the in game politics between players, there shoul= d be an alternative alliance-form, that should be run by the computer. These should be religious alliances, representing the conflict between the temple= s and religions. Parties could choose between 8 different religious alliances= . The rules for being part of one alliance should follow some of the routines like those for becomming NA. Parties would first have to be close to the Go= d they want to follow for some turns, and then they will be tested, having to fullfill some quests for the temple aligned to the God. Then the party will be offered status as an member of the alliance. This contract can be broken both by the player and the computer/alliance, if the party don't follow =AB= the right path=BB. Parties should be allowed to have a neutral alignment afterwards, but must not get too close to any other God (going over the borders for getting close to a God). If a player leave the alliance, he wil= l not be offered to enter an other alliance for a while. A player should not have the possibility of both being a member of a normal official alliance and a religious alliance. When you become a member of the religious allianc= e you will be offered more quests and might get extra bonuses (on buying equipment/skill etc.) from the temple, just like for the official alliances today, where players joining them get huge benefits over those not joining these allainces. Parties might go up in status in the alliance depending upon how much they serve the alliance (doing quests etc.) and how long they have been a member. These different statuses could be shown on your printou= t and told to other players when they meet your party. Like =ABBerserks of Nidaros (1020), acolytes of Sundonak=BB. Through these alliances you might also be offered high-level quests, like finding artifacts, killing monsters found in the =ABGods world=BB etc. 8) Instead of introducing this often discussed =ABopen portal=BB etc. that = would allow the party to move to an other game, you should introduce a =ABWorld where the Gods live=BB, where parties might meet named immortal monsters/np= c's and demons/angels etc. Parties might travel to this world through a neutral miracle requiring 50 points. This world would be different from the normal Kharne, with different and more powerful monsters, that fight each other in the gods war between evil and good. Parties might join this battle, and might get quests/rewards from either these npc-immortals which they meet or through the religious alliances that they belong to. But in this world it shouldn't be so simple about whom you attack. On Kharne you can attack everything, but here your attacks should make you either a friend or an enemy to the other side, and ravaging around and fighting everything would be not too smart if you want to survive. It should also be possible to figh= t the immortals (off course not easy), but without killing them entirely. Defeating an immortal could be the ultimate quest offered. This neutral miracle might also take you to some large dungeons not found o= n the surface of Kharne, which might be the target for some highlevel-quests, exploring them and tracing a object like a monster or an item. I see two possibilities when it comes to these quests. Either that the computer creat= e a random small dungeon for the party when offering a quest, or that you create some huge dungeons where players might continue exploring and monsterkilling until their quest is finished , or .... as long as they want= to!=20 9) Quests should include hunting murderers etc. in the catacombs, defeating other parties that have attacked a party in your religios alliance, finding lost artifacts (combining locating the dungeon and exploring/fighting), kil= l powerful leader-npcs, rescue someone, clear a named lair for monsters, etc. (Dungeons might also be inside pyramids in the desert etc.) And the settlements officials/elders should also offer rewards for capturing/killin= g criminals. 10) Several orders should be reprogrammed, as the I order. Using several orders each turn in dungeons on inspecting bags of gold is no fun. You should do something with this, as I don't want to use the 15 orders on doin= g things that might have been done in a single order, if it would be necesarr= y to do an order at all. Why have you put these bags of gold into the game? D= o you think it's very exciting to find out how high amount of gold there is i= n the bag on the following turn? Well, I don't find all these I orders exciting at all. Insted you should make orders like I 474 99, I 474 0, I 47= 4 12, meaning that all members would inspect their bag of gold if they have one, that all bags in the party is inspected or that character number 12s bag is inspected. Or you might simply tell on the printout that a bag of gold was found and then tell the player the amount of gold that was in it. 11) Wilderness travelling is too slow. More movementpoints. And the transportation-system is pure fantasy compared to the movementpoints that a party has available. If you introduce horses, I hope you find a solution about what happens when the party goes down a dungeon. I've read sometimes that the horses will be lost when the party goes underground. This is so fa= r out that it can't be true. You should avoid this =ABproblem=BB too, as it shouldn't be a problem in the first place. This should be most of what I think should be put into the game. I hope for comments, and I hope you will tell KJC about it if you enjoyed any of the sugestions. Erling. ------------------------------------------------------------------- JPG> Some very interesting ideas there, Erling... I might be mistaken,=20 but I thought that the 50 point miracles were being worked on already... = =20 Also, the world where the immortals live, or whatever the name for such a= =20 place would be, should not be reached that easily! Any priest with over=20 50 skill who hasn't cast anything for a while could send the party=20 there. In my opinion the idea of using mages and priests in unison to=20 cast such a spell is a better idea. Anyway, I'd be interested to hear=20 what people's opinions are. JPG> We all know that Quest has undergone some much needed improvements=20 over the last few months, and this is a good thing. However, there will=20 always be other things we want to see added to the game, and no=20 programmer is going to be fast enough to keep up with our ideas! JPG> Many may remember the vote that was made earlier this year on the=20 improvements we wanted to see made. There were criticisms that it was=20 too complex an operation with too many points on it, etc. Perhaps a=20 better thing to do would be to come up with a top 5 improvements, say=20 every 2 months, and get people to write in to KJC (snail mail) with this=20 top 5. That way they would receive demands for the same proposals from=20 many different people and would be more likely to implement them. JPG> Digest readers could print out an email, newsletter readers could=20 send off a slip from the bottom of their newsletter... JPG> Anyway, I guess you've read enough for now. Have a good Christmas=20 and remember that there is no such thing as over indulgence. :) >>-Josh-> "But I still haven't found what I'm looking for..." - U2 Up