ATLANTISv2 atl-players-digest #205

From: csd@microplex.com (Christian Daudt)

Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 00:00:00 +0000

Errors to csd@microplex.com
For more information on Atlantis, visit the Web site
http://www.rahul.net/atlantis, or email the gamemaster
at atlantis@rahul.net.
If you want previous digests, they are available via WWW at
http://www.microplex.com/~csd/atlantisv2/
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Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 13:29:55 -0500 (EST)
From: navboy <navboy@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
Subject: Atlantis  Birds

10 announcements in the Times??!!

I guess I can tell you why the Birds were killed; they were SO
annoying that SOMEBODY got rid of them.  Now if only we could get rid of
these damn announcements!!!  Somebody needs to get a life.  I somehow
doubt that the person who is posting these REALLY cares if the Birds got
toasted or not.  It's just free silver for them.  If you really wanted to
find out why your unit got killed, WHY DON'T YOU ASK THE PEOPLE WHO
KILLED THEM??!

STOP CLUTTERING MY TIMES!!!!!!

of course, I just cluttered everybody else's mailbox with this, but it
DID feel good to vent.

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Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 15:54:53 -0500
From: Josh_Higham@nmh.northfield.ma.us (Josh Higham)
Subject: Times + Messages

I have an idea that might make limit the number of useless and stupid postings
in the Times.

Somehow (ideas below) let people vote on items that they don't think deserve
50 SIL, or, more importantly, that they want STOPPED!  Then when a certain
percentage of players reject a message from a specific faction, inform that
faction.  If this happens a second time, take away the 50 SIL, and if it
happens any more, remove their ability to send to the TIMES.

This could perhaps be implemented on a web page that would catalogue the
Times, giving each submission a number (unrelated to the faction that wrote
it) and let the web page count up for those who want to disable a certain
account.

Another option (because not everyone has web access) would be to put it in as
an option for the Times.

The main problem with this idea is that an alliance could perhaps conspire to
remove other factions from the Times, but I consider this unlikely especially
if the person is allowed some recourse (to geoff).

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Subject: Re: Times + Messages
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 96 13:25:33 -0500
From: Mark Keen <mark@keen.demon.co.uk>

I too think something should be done about the repeating/useless articles in
the Times. The idea below is good, but I personally feel it would be
impractical, generating a lot of work for somebody.

I would like to see the 50 silver reward removed, and everyone given 50
silver unclaimed funds each turn. This would free the times for those people
who wanted to make sensible use of it.

The only danger is that this might cause the Times to fold. Perhaps instead
of sending in a hurried article, many people would not contribute an article
at all? The loss of the Times would be a loss to the game, but there's no
reason why if that did happen, Geoff couldn't revert back to paying for
submissions - IMHO an experiment definitely worth trying...

Thoughts?

Mark
Ershwin's Troop (399)

> I have an idea that might make limit the number of useless and stupid
postings
> in the Times.
>
> Somehow (ideas below) let people vote on items that they don't think
deserve
> 50 SIL, or, more importantly, that they want STOPPED!  Then when a certain
> percentage of players reject a message from a specific faction, inform
that
> faction.  If this happens a second time, take away the 50 SIL, and if it
> happens any more, remove their ability to send to the TIMES.
>
> This could perhaps be implemented on a web page that would catalogue the
> Times, giving each submission a number (unrelated to the faction that
wrote
> it) and let the web page count up for those who want to disable a certain
> account.
>
> Another option (because not everyone has web access) would be to put it in
as
> an option for the Times.
>
> The main problem with this idea is that an alliance could perhaps conspire
to
> remove other factions from the Times, but I consider this unlikely
especially
> if the person is allowed some recourse (to geoff).

----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 06:35:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Neil M Matsui <nmatsui@itsa.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: Times + Messages

What about sectioning the TIMES?
Something like adding a one line command after #TIMES (faction) (password)
that says:
 #NEWS (for news articles)
 #CHRONICLES (for serial fiction - continuous character fiction)
 #WAR (for war threats, claims, Birds repeats, etc.)
 #DISCOVERY (for science, WWW sites, maps, or for useful facts (monster info)
 #OBITUARIES (for obituaries)
 #QUESTS (for contests and quests)
 #AD (for advertisement)
 #ETC (for gimme 50 SIL trash)
Then the times will be sectioned and players can read those portions
that interest them.

Neil
Synergy (912) NAA

On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Mark Keen wrote:
> I too think something should be done about the repeating/useless articles in
> the Times. The idea below is good, but I personally feel it would be
> impractical, generating a lot of work for somebody.
>
> I would like to see the 50 silver reward removed, and everyone given 50
> silver unclaimed funds each turn. This would free the times for those people
> who wanted to make sensible use of it.
>
> The only danger is that this might cause the Times to fold. Perhaps instead
> of sending in a hurried article, many people would not contribute an article
> at all? The loss of the Times would be a loss to the game, but there's no
> reason why if that did happen, Geoff couldn't revert back to paying for
> submissions - IMHO an experiment definitely worth trying...
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Mark
> Ershwin's Troop (399)
>
> > I have an idea that might make limit the number of useless and stupid
> postings
> > in the Times.
> >
> > Somehow (ideas below) let people vote on items that they don't think
> deserve
> > 50 SIL, or, more importantly, that they want STOPPED!  Then when a certain
> > percentage of players reject a message from a specific faction, inform
> that
> > faction.  If this happens a second time, take away the 50 SIL, and if it
> > happens any more, remove their ability to send to the TIMES.
> >
> > This could perhaps be implemented on a web page that would catalogue the
> > Times, giving each submission a number (unrelated to the faction that
> wrote
> > it) and let the web page count up for those who want to disable a certain
> > account.
> >
> > Another option (because not everyone has web access) would be to put it in
> as
> > an option for the Times.
> >
> > The main problem with this idea is that an alliance could perhaps conspire
> to
> > remove other factions from the Times, but I consider this unlikely
> especially
> > if the person is allowed some recourse (to geoff).
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 09:44:08 -0600 (CST)
From: ThorC@UH.EDU (Thor Christensen)
Subject: Re: Times + Messages

At 01:25 PM 2/8/96 -0500, Mark Keen wrote:
>I too think something should be done about the repeating/useless articles in
>the Times. The idea below is good, but I personally feel it would be
>impractical, generating a lot of work for somebody.
>
>I would like to see the 50 silver reward removed, and everyone given 50
>silver unclaimed funds each turn. This would free the times for those people
>who wanted to make sensible use of it.
>
>The only danger is that this might cause the Times to fold. Perhaps instead
>of sending in a hurried article, many people would not contribute an article
>at all? The loss of the Times would be a loss to the game, but there's no
>reason why if that did happen, Geoff couldn't revert back to paying for
>submissions - IMHO an experiment definitely worth trying...
>
>Thoughts?
>
>Mark
>Ershwin's Troop (399)

I find myself agreeing with my enemy.  The Times should not be a dumping
ground for the same tired stuff, week after week.  The reward of 50 sil is
what is driving this of course.  To change the reward system and not give
anything is a step in the right direction, but if you do this, the unclaimed
pool dies a slow death.  So, do you automatically reward people every turn
for just being around with 50 sil?  Even those that send in no turn (who
would do this?) ?  That seems unfair too.

If the issue is to have a mechanism to pop money into the unclaimed pool,
then we can discuss this in the game mechanics mail list.  In fact, several
interesting proposals were made concerning allowing Trade factions the
ability to funnel money into the unclaimed pool with special units.

If what you want to do is simply stop the mindless posts (like the stupid
posting of that Birds battle report, time and time again), then can the 50 sil
reward.  IMHO the Times will not die.  There are those of us that seem to
have no life outside of the fictional realm of Atlantis.  We will find a way to
contribute something meaningful to the Times.  Perhaps that should become
the place to discuss changes in game mechanics?  It would give us an
opportunity for more rational discussion (at least over a longer period of time)
and would make it interesting to read the Times again.  We are at a point in
time when the rapid exchange of game mechanics ideas is not necessary
any longer, carefully thought out positions are.

Articles that discuss your faction in a role-playing sense would still be
welcome, but I find that those are dwindling.  There simply is no incentive
for those.  The people that write those articles write them as a labor of love
and not for the 50 sil.

Thoughts?

Thor Christensen

thorc@uh.edu
phone      (713) 743-3975
fax:          (713) 743-3978

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Date: Thu, 8 Feb 96 11:14:27 -0500
From: Josh_Higham@nmh.northfield.ma.us (Josh Higham)
Subject: Re(2): Times + Messages

>I would prefer just to make the 50 sil automatic, as this is why we get
>most of the wasted space postings. Also to compare each article to all
>articles from the previous times and discard it if it is exactly the same.
>I could write a script for this in no time. This would kill the
"auto-posters"
>out there.

I thought of this; however, all a person has to do is add a little bit - i.e.
put an additional line "ha ha" in every other edition.

I also understand your point about out of game politics - I think that this
could be eliminated with a high enough percentage required, and I think that
Geoff could give final say on what goes (i.e. obvious repetition, or "50 sil"
messages) and what stays (anything else).  I think that this would be an easy
enough statement:

Any message that is repeated more than [say 3 times], or any message that is
less than [5/10 lines of text (80 char lines)] can be voted on.

I understand that some people want the 50 SIL bonus to be eliminated, however
I like this - being able to get SOME money unclaimed.

Thanks.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     Sent from Northfield Mount Hermon School via ExpressNet/First Class
                   firstname_lastname@nmh.northfield.ma.us
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Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 12:05:42 -0500 (EST)
From: navboy <navboy@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
Subject: Re: Re(2): Times + Messages

On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Josh Higham wrote:

> >I would prefer just to make the 50 sil automatic, as this is why we get
> >most of the wasted space postings. Also to compare each article to all
> >articles from the previous times and discard it if it is exactly the same.
> >I could write a script for this in no time. This would kill the
> "auto-posters"
> >out there.
>
> I thought of this; however, all a person has to do is add a little bit - i.e.
> put an additional line "ha ha" in every other edition.
>
> I also understand your point about out of game politics - I think that this
> could be eliminated with a high enough percentage required, and I think that
> Geoff could give final say on what goes (i.e. obvious repetition, or "50 sil"
> messages) and what stays (anything else).  I think that this would be an easy
> enough statement:
>
> Any message that is repeated more than [say 3 times], or any message that is
> less than [5/10 lines of text (80 char lines)] can be voted on.
>
> I understand that some people want the 50 SIL bonus to be eliminated, however
> I like this - being able to get SOME money unclaimed.
>
> Thanks.
>
>

I think that we should remember what the purpose of the Times is.  It was
designed to enhance the playing of the game whether that be in a role
playing capacity or with anouncements or threats or advertisements.  I
don't have a problem with the "bird's" announcement or the "MIT" add; my
problem is with the frequency that they apear in a single issue.  Many
newspapers run identicle adds from day to day; there's nothing wrong with
that.
	The "gimme" messages are another story.  They are nothing more
than  easy way to get 50 sil.  We should all think of our Times
submissions as earning the silver.  Write something that deserves the
award!!
	Now that I've said that the "Bird's" announcment would be ok as
long as it doesn't apear more than once; I have to say I would be happy
to never see it again.  It's plainly just a whiny message written by
someone who can't get over the loss of a few entertainers.  Some of us
have lost huge units of COM 4 orcs or mages with spells out the
ying-yang.  What kind of investment is a group of entertainers?  Just
make another unit!

Lets all be adults about this.  The game is only what we put into it.
Too many of us are putting in junk.

Brandon Moore

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Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 09:19:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Heinen <jeffh@ee.pdx.edu>
Subject: Re: Times + Messages

I for one would like to keep the 50 silver. For those of us that work
on our submission, I am not sure I would put in the time for nothing.
Then again, mabey I would.

Perhaps if we moved a little closer to olympia in this area. Have two
sections, one that is paid, but your faction name and numember are appended
to the bottem of the message. If you want an anonymous message, you can,
but you wont get anything for it (Or a lot less?).

That way, we can find the number of factions and gang up on them :)

Oh, and I like the message I just saw about seperating it into groups,
but what is to stop cross posting, r multiple posting, or even the
"gimmie 50 sil" snydrome?

-Jeff

-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-
               _       __  __   _   _      _
              | | ___ / _|/ _| | | | | ___(_)_ __   ___ _ __
           _  | |/ _ \ |_| |_  | |_| |/ _ \ | '_ \ / _ \ '_ \
          | |_| |  __/  _|  _| |  _  |  __/ | | | |  __/ | | |
           \___/ \___|_| |_|   |_| |_|\___|_|_| |_|\___|_| |_|
     jeffh@ee.pdx.edu                  http://www.ee.pdx.edu/~jeffh/
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Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 13:14:47 -0500
From: "Kenneth S. Casey" <ken@satori.gso.uri.edu>
Subject: Re: Times + Messages

Atlantean Players,

>Articles that discuss your faction in a role-playing sense would still be
>welcome, but I find that those are dwindling.  There simply is no incentive
>for those.  The people that write those articles write them as a labor of love
>and not for the 50 sil.

In general, I agree.  While an easy 50 silver is nice to pad your pockets, I
think it should be removed as an incentive for the TIMES.  I for one would
continue to submit, even without the cash.  I believe the same would be true of
many of the finer TIMES submitters, the authors of THE PRETTSTERN FREE PRESS,
the Atlantis Press (AP), The Monster Info, and many other like them clearly
don't submit for a mere 50$.  They enjoy the way their articles enrich the
game, as do I.  To them I say, "Keep up the good press", to the others: "You're
lucky your identity isn't revealed."  (That isn't a threat from me, it's simply
clear that there are many folks out there that would like to squash you like
bugs.)

Perhaps that is a solution:  The submitting faction could be indicated along
with the article.

Ken

--
Name/Title:   Kenneth S. Casey	             - Graduate Student
Stone Age:    URI/GSO, South Ferry Rd.,        Narragansett RI 02882, USA
Bronze Age:   Office: 401-874-6677             Fax: 401-874-6728
Modern Age:   http://satori.gso.uri.edu/~ken - ken@satori.gso.uri.edu
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From: Dave "Mack" McGaw <u3djm@csc.liv.ac.uk>
Subject: UPS
Date: Fri,  9 Feb 1996 16:25:57 +0000 (GMT)

Someone mailed me about a UPS charter and I put them off until turn 54.

I've had a cancellation so could you contact me again for this turn.

I think it was a Dean, but I've deleted quite a bit of mail in the past 10
mins!

Please mail me back!

Regards as ever
                               //////
Dave "Mack" McGaw             ( o o )          u3djm@csc.liv.ac.uk
---------------------------o0O--(_)--O0o--------------------------
Mulder  : "And what about you!  Where do you stand?"
Skinner : "I stand on the line that you keep crossing!!"