Re: VGAPLANETS v. MoO

From: jwood@teleport.com (Bret and Jill Wood)

Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 00:00:00 +0000

Paul seems to be a bit weak in the reading comprehension department, so
I'll explain myself a little more clearly for his benefit.
(also, he screwed up the attributions)

In article <4o0cck$9b7@tribune.usask.ca>,
Paul Brown <ac719@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> wrote:
>Bret and Jill Wood (jwood@teleport.com) wrote:
>
>: You list all of these addons, _but_ Stars! will never have many of these
>: types of addons because it already allows you to choose the starmap
>: paramaters for every game,
>
>	Big deal, that can be done just as easy with PlanMap for VGAP

I didn't say it couldn't.  I said that there won't be as many addons for
Stars! because it doesn't need them.

>	Who needs AI? Who plays with AI? I'd much rather be playing
>against a human opponent than a computer

Newbies, and people who want to test out strategies against an opponent
before they actually use them in a real game.

>	I tried out stars, and have found these blaring faults.
>	-as far as I know, its windows only. Let me clue you in what many
>people think... Windoze SUCKS! Granted, many people like windows, but
>with VGAP, you can take your choice.

I agree that MS Windows sucks, but unfortunately DOS sucks for
programmers.  That's why Stars! is Windows only, AND why VGAP 3.5 and
higher are/will be Windows only.  Personally, for VGAP I use winplan to
unpack my files, and make my turns, and I use VPA to actually play the
game.

>	-user interface? So its good, who cares... vgap is fairly
>reasonable.... and its NOT WINDOZE!

The interface is CRITICAL when it comes to attracting new people to a
program.  If VGAP is difficult to learn because the program is a mess,
then many new people won't get the chance to really learn how much fun it
can be.

>: Right now I enjoy VGAP more than Stars!, because VGAP has an intangible
>: quality to the gameplay which makes it really fun.  But, considering
>: that Stars! is being developed by several excellent programmers (at
>: least one of whom used to work on the Excel program for Microsoft) who
>: are extremely receptive to suggestions from players, and who are very
>: open about their progress, I think it is inevitable that Stars! will
>: develop into a game that is superior to VGAP in all ways.  (Except for
>: number of add-ons :)
>
>	Exactly, the qualty of gameplay. I noticed you failed to mention
>that STars! was better.

No, I specifically said that VGAP is better (for now), and that's the only
major point that it has going for it.  Don't you know how to read?

Vgap planets has tonnes of special missions for
>ships, races, planets, and who knows what else. VGAP also has a wide
>range of possibilites (if I'm not mistaken ) with TEd York's Design games.
>Asside from things like productivy, how many specials missions are there
>for the races? Such as super Spy, DArk sense, rebel ground assault? Not
>many, if any at all.

This is a rather strange comparison.  There are many things to distinguish
the races in Stars!, but the way the game works these special abilities
aren't implemented as "missions."  If you can't tell that there are
major differences between a Super Stealth race, and a War Monger race,
then you haven't even scratched the surface of Stars!

>: I think that the main reason VGAP is dominant over Stars! is because of
>: the gaming experience of the programmer, and because it has had much
>: longer to develop a following.  No matter how many insults people here
>: sling at Stars!, it will eventually become VGAP's most serious
>: competition.
>
>	Not to mention that they already had the kind to copy off of.
>	Someone else mention that there would be addons, for stars. Even
>the implementing of the VGAP races! Well, stars has copied a lot so it
>might as well just finish the job.

First off, Stars! is NOT copied from VGAP.  It was written as a LAN based
game, but some of the VGAP community latched on to it as an interresting
alternative game, and now Stars! is being modified so that it can be
played solo, LAN, internet, or BBS with good game-play in any style.

Secondly, anyone who would proclaim VGAP as superior based on arguments of
originality should get their head examined.  VGAP ripped off all of it's
races from TV shows, and it ripped off most of its original concept from
other games which have been mentioned previously in this thread.  Hell,
I used to play Stellar Conquest many years before VGAP ever came out.

The things that Tim added which improved the game are basically limited to
graphics, and emailing of turns.  (At least in the early versions)  When
I was at MIT, a guy in my fraternity wrote a game for his PC which was
extremely similar to VGAP.  It had factories, schools, defense bases,
different environments for planets, freighters, mining, interstellar
alliances, etc....  The only major deficiencies were that it wasn't
graphical, and it used the "hot-seat" method.  This game was written in
about a week, and it was written in 1987.  VGAP is by no means the
Original in this genre.  It has one claim to fame which is that right
now it is the most popular game.  Heck, it wasn't even the first
space conquest game to use emailed turns.  There have been email games
since before the internet got its name.

-Bret Wood
-jwood@teleport.com

References

Re: VGAPLANETS v. MoO
cg@primenet.com (mystro)
Wed, 22 May 1996 00:00:00 +0000
Re: VGAPLANETS v. MoO
jwood@teleport.com (Bret and Jill Wood)
Wed, 22 May 1996 00:00:00 +0000
Re: VGAPLANETS v. MoO
ac719@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Paul Brown)
Thu, 23 May 1996 00:00:00 +0000

Referenced By

Re: VGAPLANETS v. MoO
cg@primenet.com (mystro)
Wed, 22 May 1996 00:00:00 +0000
Re: VGAPLANETS v. MoO
jwood@teleport.com (Bret and Jill Wood)
Wed, 22 May 1996 00:00:00 +0000
Re: VGAPLANETS v. MoO
ac719@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Paul Brown)
Thu, 23 May 1996 00:00:00 +0000