Quest Digest 31/5/96

From: ">>-Josh->" <J.P.Gallagher@durham.ac.uk>

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:00:00 +0000

___         _
  / _ \       | |               31st May 1996
 | |_| |UEST__| |IGEST
  \__  |   / _  |
     | |_ | |_| |  An e-mail discussion forum for the fantasy
     |_ /  \___/   play by mail game;  "Quest".  Compiled  by=20
                   Josh Gallagher. J.P.Gallagher@durham.ac.uk

o  This isn't one of those automatic list thingies, so could all=20
   articles be sent clearly marked with paragraphs initialled to me.

o  If you want off the list, just say!  No hassle, no pressure.

o  All material here is the exclusive property of the author and may
   not be used elsewhere without their permission.
  ___
 / _ \          Here it is!  The first late Digest in quite a while!=20
|  __/DITORIAL  I thought it better that you receive an email constructed
 \___|          whilst sober, for lo!  My exams are over.  But enough of
                me and onto the Digest.
This issue might be titled 'How to use an official alliance and other=20
things' for my query at the end of the last issue gained quite a few=20
responses.  Thank you to all those people that helped out there!  Anyway,=
=20
on with the articles...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: stuart_2@tds.bt.co.uk
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:23:21 +0000

> >Anyway, I'm just cheesed off 'cos one of KJC's new tougher type Jinxs'
> >has just cost my 158 turn old group three characters (sob :-()
>=20
> PN> Jinx ain't new, and they fall to an engulfing globe - Use Enchant
> Weapons 3 and you'll be sorted.
>=20
My group killed a Jinx when they were 90 turns or so old mainly by=20
use of Call Monster, which they cast about 12 times to kill it. The=20
Jinx only hit them four times. The blurb about Jinxs says that they=20
cause bad luck - my group have not been plagued with any noticeably.=20
Has anybody else experienced bad luck caused by an encounter with a=20
Jinx? Ythcal's Touch worked about once in every 4 tries.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Roy.Thomas@ubs.com
Date: Tue, 21 May 96 16:36:30 +0100

> JPG>  Now that I'm pottering about with an official alliance, would
     > someone care to tell me exactly how these money spinning things are
     > working?

RJT> What happens is this:
     RJT> You spend 1000 Gold a turn to maintain the Strength skill for
     sale at 200 Gold.
     RJT> A group comes alone and buys strength skill for the entire group
     a few times, (B 99 AllianceShopNo 607). For a 15 member group, this
     yields 3000 Gold a time which goes straight into the alliance coffers.
     Obviously, this only works when you have a number of groups that have
     the funds to buy strength like this. It is very common, I estimate
     that my group is buying an average of 4 * 15 * strength skills a turn,
     which is 12,000 gold straight into the alliance coffers (money from
     temple quests rises very quickly at higher levels of skill and
     experience). Only 1000 of this is actually lost in maintenance.
     RJT> If a few groups are doing this, then the alliance makes a lot of
     money! This is how the BKA can afford to expand quickly. Also, if you
     are offering strength skill at 200 instead of the market rate of 250,
     you can convince non alliance members to shop at your HQ for the
     strength skills, and make even more money.

RJT> The Treasurer and Head of the alliance however can transfer this
     money back to their group (or any other group), and hence buy more
     strength next turn. Effectively, they can increase the toughness of
     their groups very rapidly (I believe that the maximum amount of
     transfer is 15,000 a turn which equates to 5 Strength skills for an
     entire 15 member group every turn).
     RJT> Obviously buying strength skill is the ideal here because it does
     not cost experience. Similar things can be done for weapon skills etc,
     but for a limited time as experience is used up. Buying items fails
     because of the limited profit on them, the need to keep replenishing=
=20
     supplies, and because few groups would want to keep buying items.

> JPG> Please let me know - we had half hoped the 20,000 wouldn't
     > disappear, which doesn't appear to have been the case.
     RJT> The initial cost of 20,000 is lost I'm afraid. All I suggest you=
=20
     do is try and keep it going, otherwise you will need to pay another
     20,000 to start it up again.
     RJT> About the abusing of OAs, it is really up to the other members of=
=20
     the alliance. I for one, don't really care. I gain similar amounts of
     strength by buying strength skill from the proceeds of temple quests,
     and that gains me XP as well (to be used to buy weapon skills etc). At=
=20
     low levels, this might be more of a problem, but surely the other
     members of the alliance would complain if the leaders abused this
     system constantly. It is no fun paying for somebody else pleasure.

RJT> Remember, someone has to come up with 1000 Gold per turn week for=
=20
     the strength skill, and 200 Gold per turn week for defending the shop.

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From: Jens J Loesel <Jens_J_Loesel@sbphrd.com>
Date: 21 May 96 17:25:12 EDT

JL> Hi everybody

JL> There has been lots of discussion about undeads and Monster Quest in th=
e
last few issues.
This message must have been lost, so I write it again, even when it comes a
little bit late now:

JL> Undeads: Yes you find them underground. Each monster type exists only
on certain terrain. For example you will never find any normal monster
(rat, goblin, etc.) on a field or on a street. (This may have changed now
with farmers, bandits and monks !!!) But NPC's are allowed there.

JL> Some monsters are even more restricted like Hill Giants which need a
hill to live on. So most undeads will be restricted to underground terrain.

JL> Until here it is proof data, the next bit is speculation:

JL> Each game starts with some undead monsters in the dungeons. The problem
is, they allways fight to the death. So as soon as someone meets them,
they are gone.

JL> The question is, how does the routine work which produces new monsters.

JL> For my knowledge new monsters are created on the surface of Kharne
and then they may wander down into dungeons. If this is right, then
KJC has a bug in the program, as new monsters are created once at the
start, but afterwards there are never new one, because they are not
allowed on the surface and therefore cannot be regenerated.

JL> This would explain why in new games you find a lot of skeletons, etc.,
but as soon as a game is old, you nead a dungeon where noone has been
befor to find them.

JL> As I told, this is speculation.

JL> The next bit: Monster Quests

JL> The amount of money you get for a Monster Quest hasn't changed to
newer version. The reason that some people get so much money is
totally different.

JL> Monster Quests are payed by Monsterclass and distance. Normally
you get a Monster quite near (1-5 sectors away). But as soon as
one or two groups start to do a Quest each second turn, there are
no monsters left after a while, so you will get monsters 5-10 or
even further away.

JL> I guess all the high paying Quests resulted from the following scenario=
:

JL> A HQ in a city, therefore lots of groups doing monster quests.
After a while no monsters left near to the city.
Quest are no 10-15 sectors away.
New high paying monsters are introduced and spreat out
evenly around Kharne.

JL> No the change is quite high to get a high payed monster (monk, etc.),
quite far away (10-15 sectors).

JL> But don't worry, as soon as they are killed, you will get again low
priced monsters.=20

JL> Do you know how annoying it is to get 1 rat 14 sectors away for
280 gold each ??

JL> Sorry if this was too long. Josh could slpit it in two pieces maybe.
But I think it was worth writing.

JL> By the way another correction: You get library missions also
for 2000 XP (not 4000 as you find in nearly every alliance
info). Try it out. You get 250-500 gold for investigting a
forrest, hill, etc. I tried it with 2300 XP and it worked.

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Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 20:29:52 +0100
From: Paul Noble <editor@elbon.demon.co.uk>

>JPG>  Now that I'm pottering about with an official alliance, would=20
>someone care to tell me exactly how these money spinning things are=20
>working?  An example:  We offer strength skill at 200 gold, costing=20
>20,000 to start up and 1000 maintenance.  This requires at least 5=20

PN> How to abuse the OA system: Get you alliance set up, buy in strength
skill, get an additional 15-20k into the account. The leader and
Treasurer can transfer 15k per turn. They transfer 15k to themselves,
take it out the bank and buy 5 trainings for the full 15 strong group,
thus the 15k is back in the account for the treasurer to do the same.
Your To goes up about 10-20 per 5 trainings but about 10 with the
health. The alliance runs into trouble when: The Leader and Treasurer
take out 15k and don't spend it straight back into the alliance, when
other members don't contribute via the strength skill to make sure the
alliance doesn't lose money.
PN> I think with the OA phenomena being so young and untried (except for
a few super alliances) the abuse of the system will continue until some
'nice' players form an alliance to make profits. I think the less +
items available (they are dissapearing from the normal shops) the more
the OAs will have a chance at making a profit by stocking these items
and advertising to the whole game the whereabouts of the HQs and the
shop numbers and stocks available. The only alliance I can see being
able to do this is the BKA but since they are evil i doubt that they'll
do this =3D)
PN> Making a ton of dosh from item hungry groups would be an a right
laugh but I have yet to find a game with 4 other players/groups who are
willing to form an alliance with pure profit in mind - its easy to
aquire wealth other ways than conning it out of other players.
PN> The way the OAs I am in work is by a mutual trust that each member
will as part of their general play do their training at the HQ,
regardless of what that training is - I wouldn't want to be a member of
an alliance who does not have this idea backing its behaviour, the
alliance is there for the members, and this way the alliance memebrs
profit from membership buy everyone chipping in for items and stuff
which would normally be extreamly expensive.

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Date: Wed, 22 May 96 18:23:04 GMT
From: Dave Rees <chaos@thanes.demon.co.uk>

> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
> SM>8 groups! Hey, suddenly I feel important. Can anyone stop the BKA?=20

DR> Of course the BKA can be stopped, with the event of the NA order there
is nothing to stop every group staying NA until such time that they have
everything a group can have. As the BKA is a combat orientated alliance,
then anyone not NA is accepting that their group is a possible target for
the alliance.

DR> There are a lot of people who don't like our policies and do openly
stand against us. The BKA is the most powerful alliance in G14, but then it
has been alot of hard work for myself to put it there, and it couldn't have
been done without the members who have joined. In the time the BKA has been
up and running, there have been at least a dozen alliances that have been
hostile to us, we have dealt with each one.

> SM> And is it right that one alliance should basically be able to run an=
=20
> entire game?

DR> Isn't this getting a bit ethical? The BKA is on top and if I have my wa=
y
I will keep it there. If you don't think it's right then do something about
it. With approximately 24 groups over 50 turns in G14, not in the BKA you
could form a half decent alliance.

DR> Official Multigame Alliances.
As the BKA is considering going to a multigame alliance, does anyone have
any idea on why the OA numbers are issued to only one alliance regardless
of game number? How do you feel about the possibility of OMA's?

> JPG>  Now that I'm pottering about with an official alliance, would=20
> someone care to tell me exactly how these money spinning things are=20
> working?

DR> Right, it's quite easy:
All money spent on training or items goes straight into the alliance coffer=
s
and as such is available to be spent on buying further skills or items.

The OA will have to pay 1200gp / turn (1 skill + 100% def) which requires
6 TO skills to be bought each week. This is easily obtainable if one group
buys 1 'B 99' per turn. (Currently the IOT buy 5 99's / turn netting the BK=
A
around 40000gp per turn).=20

The only service which can make you serious money is Strength Skill as it
has potential to gain about 100 B 99's out of a group I.E. 300,000gp per
group. Weapon Skill will only give about 25 B 99's or 75,000gp per group.
I would suggest selling Weapon Skill as well as it can still be covered by
1 B 99 of either per turn.

Mage Skill is only of use if there aren't many outlets for this skill in
the game, but having to flog 5 per week is a bit too expensive.

You cannot make any money on items, the costs are too similar to what is
available in the shops. I found that it was easier to take the loss on the
items by selling them at the lowest price, and making the extra with the
selling of services.

It's really that easy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: ctc@coventry.ac.uk
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 23:18:16 +0100

>PN> On Pub meets the leeds pubmeet will be on the 20th of June not the
>19th as advertised (the 19th is the friday). Contact Gerry Duffy for more
>details.

Chris Clarke> According to Gerry, the Pubmeet is on the 20th of JULY.

>JPG> Oh yeah, and I _might_ try and make it to the Leeds pub meet... :)

CC> Try to make it in the right month, Josh ;-) I'll be seing you there -=
=20
probably (I know, I've just halved the turnout!)

JPG> Hmmm... as mentioned in an email back to Chris, the change of month=20
does make quite a bit of difference.  1) I'm not in Durham any more so=20
it's not all that close, and 2) It's my birthday and I was planning to be=
=20
in London, which is even further away!  Ho hum.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sinclair James Manson <9503290m@student.gla.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:58:50 +0000

SM>Regarding charisma and temple quests, I guess that's a=20
possibility. The old charm doesn't seem to do a hell of a lot else.

SM>Anyone who wants a copy of the Game 14 history send me their real=20
world address and I'll send them one post haste.

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Date: Fri, 24 May 96 15:06:49 GMT
From: Dave Rees <chaos@thanes.demon.co.uk>

DR> Group deaths.

In G14 a player who had their party destroyed by a BKA group has had their
party reinstated. Why? He was beaten fairly in one on one combat. Now that
group, that has no business being in the game, has got some allies and is
now going after the group that recently killed them. If a phone call can
replace dead characters what is the point of introducing ressurection or
even the NA option?

Just who is immortal in Quest?

(JPG> Just like to add that I support Dave's position here.  If a group=20
dies, it dies)=20
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 01:26:30 +0100
From: Mark Jones <mark@samlet.demon.co.uk>

>     RJT> Someone on the internet has a list of spells and their power

MJ> According to my info. E.G. takes 14 power, while T.D. takes 35

>KJC> 'Following your letter, I printed out a list of all the positions in =
game
>14....looking at all active positions over turn number fifty. There were 5=
4
>parties in total but only 16 had the NA option switched on.......Only eigh=
t of
>the NA parties had had over 100 turns.

MJ> Apparently groups that are eligable for NA are also marked with * is
this true?

MJ> All monies paid to the alliance shop for purchases is credited to
the alliance account. You must pay 1,000 gp's per turn to keep on
selling training skills, but anything you make over this amount is clear
profit.
I have heard of certain alliances handing around 30,000 gp's to a member
group so enabling that group to purchase Strength Skill @ 200 gp's per
member which allows that group 10 strength training for free. This can
be done over and over as long as the groups benefitting from it are
prepared to donate 1,000 gold (the cost of the service to the alliance)
each time. Also you should have noticed that the initial set up cost
20,000 gp's, was retained in your alliance account, unless this was an
early glitch in the program which has since been corrected.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 19:13:07 +0100
From: Paul Noble <editor@elbon.demon.co.uk>

PN> Allo Folks, the editors on this list will already know of the big
news below but here is a quick run down on the much debated subject of
Horses:

PN> As some will know being an Editor means that we get regular updates
on the state of the games progression be it improvements or just numbers
of new players.

PN> Friday I received a 4 page letter from Kevin - of which 2 pages were
about the next implementation to go ahead - that of Horses!

PN> Basically the Horses routines and ideas are about 90% worked out on
paper and shouldn't take too long to implement.

PN> There will be three types of horses (Mules, Draft & Arabian with the
possibility of warhorses later), they Perform better in different
terrain types and their carrying capacity.

PN> Each Character can control 2 mounts, one to ride and the other to
carry stuff. The Mule will improve travel through mountains and hills
only and when not ridden will double the encumberance allowance of the
character. Arabian mounts will improve travel through all terrains other
than jungle, mountians, swamp and urban. They also double the encumb
allowance if not ridden. Draft Horses will travel at the same speed as
other mounts when led, but if ridden give no bonus, they allow 4 times
the encumberance allowance than normal.

PN> If the whole party has the same mount type then they will get full
benefit of that type in movement. If the party has a mix of mounts of
over 50% infavor of one type then they will get half the benefit - if it
is a mix the group will travel the speed of the slowest.

PN> Prices: Bought from Blacksmiths in villages the Mule is 500gp, Draft
is 1000gp and the Arabian is 2500gp. They will eat group rations and
there will be penelties applied to groups who have no rations.

PN> For dungeons and stage coach travel the horses can be traded in for
a chit which can be returned to a blacksmith to get them back - this
will work like the bank service - any blacksmith anywhere will exchange
a chit for horses.

PN> Horses can be killed but not injured - they do not get ill. As they
are items to belong to characters they are handed around as such and
they can also be handed to dead bodies thus avoiding the reduction of
movement due to a dead member. They will attract certain monster
classes, thus they will be attacked rather than the characters.

PN> You can't use a stage coach service while you have horses, sleeping
in towns will be 50% more expensive with horses (wider beds I suppose)

PN> They can't be stolen but if found in the wilderness (left by another
group) then they can be taken. They can be recovered of dead opponents.

PN> On a different tack, Kevin also said that games with histories are
getting the new players so to get an influx of new blood your game needs
to have a history.

PN> IS/Has anyone done a history for Game 16 yet? I would do one but my
group being top all round evil blokes and well involved in almost all
the history of G16 it would be a bit biased and wouldn't cover some
areas of the game - ie bits that didn't interest me at the time.

(JPG> Anyone reckon I should get on this list of editors...?)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 May 96 15:16 +0100
From: 02275911554-0001@t-online.de (Thomas Franz)

TF> Monks of Molwanh(910) aren=B4t that tough. TQ 480 , 3S 1E.=20
    I trashed the monkes in 1 round of melee, using enchant weapons 3, bles=
s and=20
    flame. All they did was to cast a spell at me at the end of the missile=
 fire=20
    round and this spell lighly hurt one char (AR 10).

TF> Anyone of game 17 interested in exchanging information ? Mail me !

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Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 12:52:02 -0700
From: Mack Brewer <mbrewer@agt.net>

Please subscribe me to the quest digest.
I just got started with Dynamic Games in their Email game.

What can I do (as a newbie) to contribute?

(JPG> Sorry for putting this straight in the Digest Mack!  I wasn't=20
certain from the comment below whether I should class this as a=20
contribution or not!  As a general guideline for everyone; contributions=20
should ideally be sent in seperate emails and with each paragraph=20
preceded by your initials.)

BTW- I experimented on turn 1 and my guess was right.
     You can stack the Strength spell!
     I had a skill 29 priest cast it twice and got
     +12 TO for all chars, and also +12 Skill for every fighter.
     This should(may) mean you get +1 TO per 5pts of skill of the caster

my humble first contribution

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

JPG> Right, that's the lot again folks.  Apologies for the late arrival=20
of this Digest, and thanks to all that wrote in.

JPG> Just a final comment before I go... when recruiting a fighter, such=20
as the 59 skill DF I got on the last turn, I thought that buying them a=20
weapon fixed their skill in that weapon as their skill as a fighter, i.e.=
=20
59.  However, buying him a great axe resulted in a skill of 29 or so. =20
What went wrong??  Pretty annoying having to train him up.  Oh well...

JPG> As ever, happy questing folks!  Good luck to those still in exams,=20
happy celebrations to those that have finished, and good luck with the=20
results.

>>-=01Josh=02->

"You can't always get what you want,
                          But if you try sometimes,
                             you just might find,
                            you get what you need"
                              -- Rolling Stones