Quest Digest 7/6/96 From: ">>-Josh->" <J.P.Gallagher@durham.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 00:00:00 +0000 ___ _ / _ \ | | | |_| |UEST__| |IGEST \__ | / _ | | |_ | |_| | An e-mail discussion forum for the fantasy |_ / \___/ play by mail game; "Quest". Compiled by Josh Gallagher. J.P.Gallagher@durham.ac.uk o This isn't one of those automatic list thingies, so could all articles be sent clearly marked with paragraphs initialled to me. o If you want off the list, just say! No hassle, no pressure. o All material here is the exclusive property of the author and may not be used elsewhere without their permission. ___ / _ \ Hello and welcome to another Quest Digest. This is one | __/DITORIAL of the rare issues one week after the last, rendering it \___| a weekly production. Well, it's sunny outside and the beer garden is calling, so on with the show.... Thank you to all those who responded to last week's question about my wonderous new Dwarf Fighter. Paul Noble came up with the most correct answer (I'd forgotten the small point of not getting into a fight that turn). Unfortunately a group to group battle and slaughtering two centaurs counts as a battle, so I didn't get the guy's skill. Oh well! Anyway, you'll be glad to hear I have no more taxing questions this week. :) On with the articles... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 22:34:00 +0100 From: Chris Mead <mead@rmplc.co.uk> JL> For my knowledge new monsters are created on the surface of Kharne and then they may wander down into dungeons. If this is right, then KJC has a bug in the program, as new monsters are created once at the start, but afterwards there are never new one, because they are not allowed on the surface and therefore cannot be regenerated. CM> I'm not sure about this... I have been in dungeons where after I have disposed of all a room's inhabitants, two turns later a new group is there taking its place, of exactly the same monster type. Also I haven't had much experience of monster groups wandering from room to room within dungeons, or is this just my inexperience? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:37:00 +0100 From: Paul Noble <editor@elbon.demon.co.uk> >> SM> And is it right that one alliance should basically be able to run an >> entire game? > >DR> Isn't this getting a bit ethical? The BKA is on top and if I have my way >I will keep it there. If you don't think it's right then do something about >it. With approximately 24 groups over 50 turns in G14, not in the BKA you >could form a half decent alliance. PN> I agree here, if one alliance gets on top then the others should band together to destroy the biggest - it happened in G1 it happened in G6 it is happening in G3, it was just happening in G9, it will soon happen in G8. I think the only real exceptions are G13 & G14 where the BKA are very dominant and it G13 where there are two massively hard alliances with loads of other super hard groups affiliated to niether dotted around. >DR> Official Multigame Alliances. >As the BKA is considering going to a multigame alliance, does anyone have >any idea on why the OA numbers are issued to only one alliance regardless >of game number? How do you feel about the possibility of OMA's? PN> I noticed this as well, are the numbers allocated to who formed first? With one number game wide it means it would be easy to have a multi game alliance once they implement the change world journey. In general I think multigame alliances are rather poor - it normally gets everyone after the alliance for no reason other than they are multigame - So I suppose since there are few fights in G14 it may be good for the BKA. >> JPG> Now that I'm pottering about with an official alliance, would >> someone care to tell me exactly how these money spinning things are >> working? PN> <4-5 large explanations deleted> wish you didn't ask? JPG> At least I got the information. :) >>PN> On Pub meets the leeds pubmeet will be on the 20th of June not the >>19th as advertised (the 19th is the friday). Contact Gerry Duffy for more >>details. > >Chris Clarke> According to Gerry, the Pubmeet is on the 20th of JULY. PN> Oops - I'll have to get onto him about this. < I just put it in the G1 paper too!> JPG> Reports on last Monday's meet, anyone? >SM>Anyone who wants a copy of the Game 14 history send me their real >world address and I'll send them one post haste. Can you not mail it directly to people via email? > >DR> Group deaths. > >In G14 a player who had their party destroyed by a BKA group has had their >party reinstated. Why? He was beaten fairly in one on one combat. Now that >group, that has no business being in the game, has got some allies and is >now going after the group that recently killed them. If a phone call can >replace dead characters what is the point of introducing ressurection or >even the NA option? PN> Whos the cad? It's not Flames of Fury is it? Give us a group number so all G14 can gun for them. >(JPG> Anyone reckon I should get on this list of editors...?) PN> Why? JPG> So I can hear about any developments in the game and pass the information on to the readers... Do editors get communication from KJC often? Do they send details of pubmeets...? That would certainly be useful. >Please subscribe me to the quest digest. >I just got started with Dynamic Games in their Email game. > PN> Welcome to the dig gest. >JPG> Just a final comment before I go... when recruiting a fighter, such >as the 59 skill DF I got on the last turn, I thought that buying them a >weapon fixed their skill in that weapon as their skill as a fighter, i.e. >59. However, buying him a great axe resulted in a skill of 29 or so. >What went wrong?? Pretty annoying having to train him up. Oh well... PN> Did you have a fight that turn? If so that is your problem - if you fight anything (even if you kill everything in magic) then your fighters weapon skill will begin from 0 again. JPG> Yeah... oops. :) Still, I won all combats... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 18:52:37 +0200 (MET DST) From: Erling Solheim <solheim@james.avh.unit.no> >JL> The question is, how does the routine work which produces new monsters. >JL> For my knowledge new monsters are created on the surface of Kharne >and then they may wander down into dungeons. If this is right, then >KJC has a bug in the program, as new monsters are created once at the >start, but afterwards there are never new one, because they are not >allowed on the surface and therefore cannot be regenerated. ES> Interesting. I have an other question for those who have experience with dungeons. I've been through some small dungeons of about 4 to 5 levels, but I've never seen any undeads. But what I find really disappointing is the low number of monstergroups on each level. I've never seen more than 4 monstergroups on the same level. What have you others experienced regarding this? Has anyone been into dungeons with monsters in almost every room? And how many levels have you seen at most, 10, 15? >> SM> And is it right that one alliance should basically be able to run an >> entire game? > >DR> Isn't this getting a bit ethical? The BKA is on top and if I have my way >I will keep it there. If you don't think it's right then do something about >it. With approximately 24 groups over 50 turns in G14, not in the BKA you >could form a half decent alliance. ES> In what kind of way is the BKA on top? On top of what? As I see it, they are on top of "making the game and the game-objectives into what they think the game should be about"; war between player-groups. So if the BKA think they are at the top of "something", then its about this aspect of the game. And all credit to them. Some of the players in the game has made a very good alliance for those war-hungry players, but I think it's a pity that the major alliance in the game only favour this aspect of the game, and that new players might get the impression of that this is what the game is only about; group vs. group combat. When all the focus in the newsletter is about this major alliance's activities and conflict between groups, I think this will have a bad effect upon what the game will look like in the future; New additions/programming will for sure benefit this war-aspect of the game, and additions like the OA will be misused by certain players. In my opinion this game is A ROLE PLAYING GAME! Some players seem to have an other view on this, and the way Quest is developing now, I fear it will end up like something of a mix between BSE and Warlord, where alliances fight each other and the "tech-levels" are similar to the investigation of how bugs and new additions can be (mis-)used to gain maximum strength in this war. I haven't been writing to the Digest for a while, but i must say that I didn't like the idea of this player from Finland, who stated that this game is solely about group-war, and that new aditions should be about running cities who produce resourches, which can be converted into weapons or whatever. Is this really what we want? Weren't there anyone else of you who thought this is not what the game should be about? So if the BKA is going to become a multigame-alliance, what will this mean for the game? And what is the ultimate goal of the BKA; to occupy every settlement in every game, to kill all non-BKA parties that are not on NA? Don't you see that you are killing the game? My sugestion is that the war-hungry players that belong to the BKA today should split. Then you would have two groups of players who would enjoy the game for the same reasons, and you could kill each others' groups over and over again. Perhaps some of us others would stop using the NA option as well, as we would know that we wouldn't be the only targets of yours. I think you are stupid if you don't understand that the more you focus on this alliance-war aspect, the more boring will the game become for you, but not me, as I can go on adventuring etc., while you have no-one to fight anymore. As it is now, you scare most players into NA status, and what is there then to be of top of? You have no one to be a top of, as there are no one who take part in "your" game anymore. Take my group and my game objectives as an example; I have a "life"-position in G14, and I'll probably continue playing this position for years. I've seen alliances come and go, and I was a part of the SWC myself (I guess some of you remember them). What I remember best from this first time in the game was about "anti-social playing", and that the BKA (or what turned out to become the BKA today) had some opposition both in the game itself when it came to group-wars, but there were also a "discussion" about what were the game objectives, and how should we play the game? The BKA meant killing "everything" was ok, while others meant this was "anti-social" playing. I view the BKA's dominant position of today, as a war about game objectives that was won through harassing other players' groups in the game itself. Thats what this NA status, no-attack in the cities etc. is all about. It was to protect those groups that were run by players who had game objectives different from those who the BKA represent. And now the BKA-players accuse others, like me, for "hiding" behind the NA status! My group is more than 140 turns old, I'm on NA, and I'm proud of it! My game objective was exploration and to get high stats for all the characters. Now my characters have about 275 in average, they are goood-skilled etc. And you think I should put off my NA-status just to get wiped out totally between turns? And worst of all, you have the "in-game-power" to do this, as I fear you will manage to change the rules about going NA, because you have won the war about "game objectives". I really hope there will never be any changes that force groups above 100 turns or longer to take off their NA-status. So to sum up; My advice is that those players that enjoy this aspect of the game split up, and make an opposition to the BKA yourself instead of blaming others for "hiding" behind the NA-option. ES> I've also been thinking about how this can be solved together with the question wther we should have a game for the Digest-players. My sugestion is that why can't Digest readers join G 14 at KJC? The game week is 7 days, and many of the players writing in the Digest is playing in this game now. And the BKA could sure get some tough opponents, because there must be some war-hungry readers out there who also look at things the way the BKA does. >SM>Regarding charisma and temple quests, I guess that's a >possibility. The old charm doesn't seem to do a hell of a lot else. ES> Are you sure about that it doesn't affect the skill-increase of priests? >SM>Anyone who wants a copy of the Game 14 history send me their real >world address and I'll send them one post haste. ES> Will it be printed in the G14 newsletter? >PN> They can't be stolen but if found in the wilderness (left by another >group) then they can be taken. They can be recovered of dead opponents. ES> About horses; What would happen to them when you go underground? ES>Well, I guess I'll get some answers about "game objectives", "anti-social playing" (which nowaday isn't anti-social anymore, but the way the game "should" be played), and the role of the BKA. I would also say that I agree somewhat with the critics from BKA members about their major position in the game; there should have been an alliance that favoured adventuring etc. There exists some of these, and perhaps they should contribute more to the newsletters about other things than alliance-war. Why isn't dungeoneering as fun as group wars? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jens J Loesel <Jens_J_Loesel@sbphrd.com> Date: 3 Jun 96 11:12:56 EDT > JPG> Just a final comment before I go... when recruiting a fighter, such > as the 59 skill DF I got on the last turn, I thought that buying them a > weapon fixed their skill in that weapon as their skill as a fighter, i.e. > 59. However, buying him a great axe resulted in a skill of 29 or so. > What went wrong?? Pretty annoying having to train him up. Oh well... JL> Bad luck. Here is the reason why you fumbeled: JL> The normal skills you get are: 8-12 for mages, 16-24 for thiefs and priests, the skill for fighters. JL> You get this skill either on the weapon you buy in the first turn (if you buy 2 it seems to be random ??) or the skill is on: Elfs - bow, Human - sword, Halfblood - Crossbow, Dwarf - Axe. JL> But why got Josh just 29 ?? Read the blurbs : You will find that an Great Axe is a difficult to mastering weapon. So using this weapon you could expect some malus. Guess how big it is: Yep, 50%. JL> You could expect the same for other weapons from now on. Seems that this is one of the tiny bits which are new but not worth to mention by KJC. . To avoid this, buy a normal axe, a short sword or a short bow. JPG> He's a DWARF! They're meant to use axes twice their size... especially with strengths like this one has! JL> But you are still lucky: Buying PlusWeapons results in skill 0 !!! This has been tested several times by different players ... Seems that KJC doesn't recognize a PlusAxe as an Axe. JL> What else is implemented?? I may only guess, but in the blurbs they write a lot of disatvantages for some weapons in some terrain types. Maybe in future it makes sense to be trained on sword and axe, and use it depending in which terrain you are ?? JL> My german game is normaly 1/2 year behind in implementations, so has anyone used a religious book in the new version ?? In the old one it is just expensive bulk ... I didn't got it working yet ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Jun 96 16:45:31 +0100 From: Roy.Thomas@ubs.com > JPG> Just a final comment before I go... when recruiting a fighter, > such as the 59 skill DF I got on the last turn, I thought that > buying them a weapon fixed their skill in that weapon as their skill > as a fighter, i.e. 59. However, buying him a great axe resulted in > a skill of 29 or so. What went wrong?? Pretty annoying having to > train him up. Oh well... RJT> This is something that I discovered a long time ago. I have implemented this theory successfully every time since. RJT> When getting a get character DO NOT DO an I 99 / I characterNo!!! First equip him with the desired Melee Weapon and then the Derised Missile Weapon. Then, make sure he is using these weapons (You can do a U characterNo WeaponNo 0). Then, and only then, do an I characterNo command. His two weapon skills should be the same as his SK rating. RJT> This will not work if your character is not equipped with the desired weapon. Handing them the weapon does not guarantee that they are equipped with it. It is safest to ensure that the stat sheet confirms this before doing an I characterNo. RJT> I have had some cases when the character decided he did not like the weapon I equipped him with, and he promptly resorted to another weapon he had in the next combat. Be careful of those characters, they are a collection of living stats that make decisions on their own. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 15:22:49 -0400 From: PSykes@aol.com (Philip Sykes) PS> I have had a letter from Steve Scutt, who runs Steve Hoard in Game 11. He says that he is on a Temple Quest to kill a Life Bringer which does not seem to want to die. So far he has hit it with `everyhing apart form the kitchen sink' and has only slightly wounded it over 5 turns worth of battles. PS> Can anybody help? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Jun 96 00:52:36 GMT From: Dave Rees <chaos@thanes.demon.co.uk> > JL> No the change is quite high to get a high payed monster (monk, etc.), > quite far away (10-15 sectors). > > JL> But don't worry, as soon as they are killed, you will get again low > priced monsters. DR> I'm sorry I have to disagree with this, I haven't done a quest for a monster group less than 100gp/sector for well over 40 turns. My three groups can push the quests in G14 out to about 20 sectors, with 14 groups questing from the same city, quests have been seen upto 35 sectors away! > > DR> Group deaths. > > (JPG> Just like to add that I support Dave's position here. If a group > dies, it dies) DR> Thanks for the support but I caught him kipping rough, and killed 12 chars on a fair 'S' order. I.E I didn't precast any spells. I'm waiting to see what happens this time. > (JPG> Anyone reckon I should get on this list of editors...?) DR> I'll definitely second that. JPG> Cheers. :) Now convince Paul... > You can stack the Strength spell! > I had a skill 29 priest cast it twice and got > +12 TO for all chars, and also +12 Skill for every fighter. > This should(may) mean you get +1 TO per 5pts of skill of the caster DR> If you investigate it further you'll find that the closer you are to Sundonak the more Str you'll gain. The most I've gained off 301 is 7 Str Points. It doesn't work that you get 1 TO per 5pts as my 80+ skill priests just don't get more than 7. > JPG> Just a final comment before I go... when recruiting a fighter, such > as the 59 skill DF I got on the last turn, I thought that buying them a > weapon fixed their skill in that weapon as their skill as a fighter, i.e. > 59. However, buying him a great axe resulted in a skill of 29 or so. > What went wrong?? Pretty annoying having to train him up. Oh well... DR> I've seen this before, it seemed to happen when accepting a character and then going into combat in the same turn. The only thing we could do was to issue an 'I 99' order after the character was given a weapon and phone KJC and harrass 'em. Anyway I've just managed to push a DF over 70 skill this week, hopefully if I can find something worth attacking to see if this makes any difference. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sinclair James Manson <9503290m@student.gla.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:42:44 +0000 SM>I won't be getting email for a while so could anyone who desperately wants the G14 history send a letter to: Sinclair J. Manson, 7 Duncan St., Thurso, Caithness, KW14 7HZ SM> OK I know the BKA have worked hard to get where they are and I admire them for that. But I enjoy stirring up trouble. sorry. Agree with you totally on the amazing regenerating group though. Do they provide that service to every group over a certain age? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- JPG> Okay! Finished... time to go catch the cricket and the sun... Happy Questing! >>-Josh-> "You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need" -- Rolling Stones Up