AG Digest #18 From: Brett Mason <apeiros@teleport.com> Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 00:00:00 +0000 Subject: V1 #18 Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 22:49:21 -0700 (PDT) From: owner-guild-l-digest Reply-To: $SENDER To: guild-l-digest Monday, 26 August 1996 Volume 01 : Number 018 ***** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ruark RC Cleary <"CLEARY_R"@ngw.dep.state.fl.us> Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 13:57:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: GUILD-L Weren't you listening? ***** Date: 08/26/1996 02:03 pm (Monday) From: Ruark RC Cleary To: DEP-TLH.VAXGATE("EPIC66:PMDF:teleport.com:/ASC:guild-l") Subject: Weren't you listening? >>From owner-guild-l 08/24/96 sb >> >>what the argument for the change in action pts is The proposal made at GenCon was for adventuring, not Guild battles (since this IS "Adventurers Guild" not "Guild-Fighters Guild"), based on one tested premise - the Elven HOST! The purpose of the HOST! was to allow younger elves (presumably newer players) to adventure with more experienced elves and get a taste of what being a successful elf is like. Unfortunately, most successful elves are very, very, fast elves. So what you had was a lot of young elves watching, instead of participating in the adventure. Not that this is inherently unfair, just boring and not very instructional. The proposal was not to equalize APs, but to spread them out proportionately. So, if you were 5X faster than someone (say you had 50APs to their 10), they would get 1 action for each of your 5 actions - as opposed to you getting 20 actions before they got their 1st. THAT'S IT!!! AND, it's OPTIONAL! If you don't want it, don't like it, are afraid of it --- YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE IT! *IS*THAT*CLEAR*ENOUGH* FOR*YOU*??? <huff.. huff> Whew. Geez, it's amazing how a simple idea can get so twisted around. Actually, Hugh and the discussion group seemed favorable to the change. It was only after a FEW people started whining about how they were the fastest [whatever] around and the change would be unfair to them by slowing them down. Ignoring that it was proposed for adventuring. Ignoring that it was proposed as an option that the party would have to agree to (or both sides, if it were even made available in the Guild). Ignoring that it was proposed to enhance the ENJOYMENT OF THE GAME. And all this, before it's even been tested to see if it will work as intended or if it will have unexpected side effects that make it an undesirable modification. sheesh. >>Now without further ado, here's Bastard! Oh, joy. >>How can you all tear me apart like this without asking, "Hey, how does >>Spear think of this change?" Hey, how does Spear think of this change? >>I was created to be FAST! Yes, I understand that's Stick Wench's complaint. >>But enough about me, Like that's gonna change. >>UNFAIRNESS: Not the issue. >>because slow characters are slow, you all want to become up to >>speed with the Fast characters, Nope. >>when does it end? It never begins, if you choose not to use it. - -AelwonF, Not to be Cont. (unless a good flame deserves it) ***** ------------------------------ From: Ruark RC Cleary <"CLEARY_R"@ngw.dep.state.fl.us> Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:06:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: GUILD-L Action pts cont -Reply ***** Date: 08/26/1996 02:13 pm (Monday) From: Ruark RC Cleary To: DEP-TLH.VAXGATE("EPIC66:PMDF:teleport.com:/ASC:guild-l") Subject: GUILD-L Action pts cont -Reply >>From owner-guild-l 08/24/96 David >> [Okay, so this isn't a flame; but I answer my mail sequentially.] >>Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the proposed change would mean >>slower opponents [CHARACTERS. Don't foget the Players.] would >>actually get to do something, like move forward, or swing a weapon, >>or cast a spell, every now and then throughout each round, instead of >>all bunched up at the end. YES!!! That's right! [and everything said afterwards, too] >>Hugh willing, we'll get a chance to try it out, both in guild fights and >>adventures, and find out for ourselves what it's like. EXACTLY! (well, I'm not sure about the guild fights...) - -AelwonF -- Finally someone understands!!! ***** ------------------------------ From: cfs@bea.com (Chris Settipani) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 96 14:14 Subject: GUILD-L Flaming elves ***** Form: Internet Memo Text: (10 lines follow) >-AelwonF, the Slow Elf >[but Poly Voo says I'm king of the elves, so there!] Being king of the elves is like being lord of the latrine, if youse asks Luca. [Luca knows everyone out there wanted Luca's opinion, so don't be trying to pretends that youse didn't]. Don Luca Brasi Godfather of Barstow Use Proportional Font: true ***** ------------------------------ From: Ruark RC Cleary <"CLEARY_R"@ngw.dep.state.fl.us> Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:17:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: GUILD-L CM:Power -Reply ***** Date: 08/26/1996 02:25 pm (Monday) From: Ruark RC Cleary To: DEP-TLH.VAXGATE("EPIC66:PMDF:teleport.com:/ASC:guild-l") Subject: CM:Power -Reply >>From owner-guild-l 08/25/96 Todd wrote >> [hey, it's a different topic] >>A long time ago Power was a very powerful skill. However people >>complained that it was too powerful I musta' missed that argument. >>So Hugh changed it so Power slowed characters down. Alright! Who called this in? Mike, was this you, again??? >>About the only characters I know that use Power are the ones that >>have bonuses due to their gods and even most of then don't try to get >>Power to the same lvl as many of the other offensive combat magics Ahem. I happen to know that Tilex has L6 Power and L5 Speed, and of course follows Ulrick, and has a 24 Sta. [Don't even start, Luca!] >>However I think alot of the problem is just the drastic affect lvls in >>Power has on Speed. I'd like to see the slow down affect be >>decreased to make Power a more useable skill. Any opinions? Todd Yeah, what he said! - -AelwonF, Not a Power User (just a Power Player; although not up there with Todd and Mike) ***** ------------------------------ From: Ruark RC Cleary <"CLEARY_R"@ngw.dep.state.fl.us> Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:38:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: GUILD-L Flaming elves -Reply ***** Date: 08/26/1996 02:45 pm (Monday) From: Ruark RC Cleary To: DEP-TLH.VAXGATE("EPIC66:PMDF:teleport.com:/ASC:guild-l") Subject: Flaming elves -Reply >>From owner-guild-luca 08/26/96 >> >>Form: Internet Flame >>Text: (unitelligible lines follow) >>Being king of the elves is like being lord of the latrine, if youse asks >>Luca. [Luca knows everyone out there wanted Luca's opinion How so? What benefits do youse, Luca, get for being lord of the latrine? Do youse have a gold key tied to a piece of engraved wood (that says "Amooco")? - -Aelw..OW!..OW!..on, Quick!! Someone invent a flame extinguisher! ***** ------------------------------ From: cfs@bea.com (Chris Settipani) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 96 14:32 Subject: re: GUILD-L Weren't you listening? ***** Form: Reply Text: (8 lines follow) I see I'm going to have to raise my speed to level 20 now, maybe add initiative level 10, and 50s in dex and cun. I like going 20 times before anyone else!! Glorfindel P.S. "King" Findelvos -- What is your opinion on my crusade, "your majesty"? Original text: (82 lines follow) >From MAIL@ih (Ruark RC Cleary) {"CLEARY_R"@ngw.dep.state.fl.us}, on 8/26/96 1:57 PM: ***** Date: 08/26/1996 02:03 pm (Monday) From: Ruark RC Cleary To: DEP-TLH.VAXGATE("EPIC66:PMDF:teleport.com:/ASC:guild-l") Subject: Weren't you listening? >>From owner-guild-l 08/24/96 sb >> >>what the argument for the change in action pts is The proposal made at GenCon was for adventuring, not Guild battles (since this IS "Adventurers Guild" not "Guild-Fighters Guild"), based on one tested premise - the Elven HOST! The purpose of the HOST! was to allow younger elves (presumably newer players) to adventure with more experienced elves and get a taste of what being a successful elf is like. Unfortunately, most successful elves are very, very, fast elves. So what you had was a lot of young elves watching, instead of participating in the adventure. Not that this is inherently unfair, just boring and not very instructional. The proposal was not to equalize APs, but to spread them out proportionately. So, if you were 5X faster than someone (say you had 50APs to their 10), they would get 1 action for each of your 5 actions - as opposed to you getting 20 actions before they got their 1st. THAT'S IT!!! AND, it's OPTIONAL! If you don't want it, don't like it, are afraid of it --- YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE IT! *IS*THAT*CLEAR*ENOUGH* FOR*YOU*??? <huff.. huff> Whew. Geez, it's amazing how a simple idea can get so twisted around. Actually, Hugh and the discussion group seemed favorable to the change. It was only after a FEW people started whining about how they were the fastest [whatever] around and the change would be unfair to them by slowing them down. Ignoring that it was proposed for adventuring. Ignoring that it was proposed as an option that the party would have to agree to (or both sides, if it were even made available in the Guild). Ignoring that it was proposed to enhance the ENJOYMENT OF THE GAME. And all this, before it's even been tested to see if it will work as intended or if it will have unexpected side effects that make it an undesirable modification. sheesh. >>Now without further ado, here's Bastard! Oh, joy. >>How can you all tear me apart like this without asking, "Hey, how does >>Spear think of this change?" Hey, how does Spear think of this change? >>I was created to be FAST! Yes, I understand that's Stick Wench's complaint. >>But enough about me, Like that's gonna change. >>UNFAIRNESS: Not the issue. >>because slow characters are slow, you all want to become up to >>speed with the Fast characters, Nope. >>when does it end? It never begins, if you choose not to use it. - -AelwonF, Not to be Cont. (unless a good flame deserves it) ***** Use Proportional Font: true Original to: MAIL@ih {guild-l@teleport.com} Attachment Count: 0 Encatts: *beyond*|*beyond*|1084|10334|841095172| //BEGIN BINARY MAIL SEGMENT: Part 1.2 Name: *BEYOND* Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream) Encoding: x-uuencode //END BINARY MAIL SEGMENT - ----Message-Boundary-0000 ***** ------------------------------ From: AspicLord@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 16:05:50 -0400 Subject: GUILD-L Action Points/Half Trolls ***** Although some may object to having the actions spread out over the round as opposed to bunching up the activities at the beginning of each round, I think that for the sake of game play, this is the only way to go. The faster characters would not lose any of their total actions, although they may be forced to defend more than before. But in the sake of any sort of realism, how could it be different? It is pretty unfair to expect an opponent to stand there and take it without even trying a counter-attack. Remember too, when Hugh brought this up originally, he was comparing two characters of equal PL, which suggests fairly equally skilled opponents, don't it? I agree with Todd too, in regards to the Power spell. When it was altered, it not only slowed characters down, it also mostly lost one of the only two reasons to have it- the protection factor. Why take a spell that while it adds to your strength, slows you down, drains your energy, and now gives barely any protection? And if you take an equal level of Speed to counteract the slowness, it kills your energy quick in most cases. This spell was totally gutted for the benefit of speed. I am sure too, that Hugh intends on having this apply to the monsters too. At GenCon, he said that it may be put in as an optional selection, like pooling, for adventures. I have already volunteered Our group as a test subject to try this out, for as I see it, how can you go wrong with monsters equally affected? Black Ilsorens a bit tamed down sounds good to me. As running a HT, I can personally state that they are easily the hardest race to run. Their racial multipliers are pretty skewed. I noticed a comment about what you would expect minos to have when you start high strength and stamina, so you would think that being tougher than humans they would get a break on those, but they don't. Now look a HT. A cross between a troll (something we are told we should be glad we haven't had to face yet), and a human. Instead of a better STR multplier, we have a higher one, STA is equal, and you are also super slow and stupid, with a thick skin. The only real benefit is the regeneration, which until you reach autoregeneration is fairly useless in a fight. Because everyone else is usually so much faster you cannot stop and rest (regenerate) or you die trying to. Gaining poison/disease resistance is not guaranteed either, my HT has drank four Resistance potions and has gained nothing yet. The need of something to lower their stat raises (to 3-6-3-6 maybe), at least temporarily, like mino bracers, is something that should be introduced into the game, and none to soon. Just a few thoughts... Don Thompson - Notorious Leader of The Water Show ***** ------------------------------ From: cfs@bea.com (Chris Settipani) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 96 15:36 Subject: re: GUILD-L Flaming elves -Reply ***** Form: Reply Text: (4 lines follow) Youse fairy elfs is just like moths. When Luca was little, Luca would take pleasure in using a zippo and an aerosol can to flame the little buggers' wings off. Luca ain't got the time anymore to partake in such pleasures, but for youse, Aelwon, Luca gonna make the time. Original text: (27 lines follow) >From MAIL@ih (Ruark RC Cleary) {"CLEARY_R"@ngw.dep.state.fl.us}, on 8/26/96 2:38 PM: ***** Date: 08/26/1996 02:45 pm (Monday) From: Ruark RC Cleary To: DEP-TLH.VAXGATE("EPIC66:PMDF:teleport.com:/ASC:guild-l") Subject: Flaming elves -Reply >>From owner-guild-luca 08/26/96 >> >>Form: Internet Flame >>Text: (unitelligible lines follow) >>Being king of the elves is like being lord of the latrine, if youse asks >>Luca. [Luca knows everyone out there wanted Luca's opinion How so? What benefits do youse, Luca, get for being lord of the latrine? Do youse have a gold key tied to a piece of engraved wood (that says "Amooco")? - -Aelw..OW!..OW!..on, Quick!! Someone invent a flame extinguisher! ***** Use Proportional Font: true Original to: MAIL@ih {guild-l@teleport.com} Attachment Count: 0 Encatts: *beyond*|*beyond*|736|10334|841099018| //BEGIN BINARY MAIL SEGMENT: Part 1.4 Name: *BEYOND* Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream) Encoding: x-uuencode //END BINARY MAIL SEGMENT - ----Message-Boundary-0000 ***** ------------------------------ From: Ruark RC Cleary <"CLEARY_R"@ngw.dep.state.fl.us> Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 16:27:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: GUILD-L Action Points/Half Trolls -Reply ***** Date: 08/26/1996 04:32 pm (Monday) From: Ruark RC Cleary To: DEP-TLH.VAXGATE("EPIC66:PMDF:teleport.com:/ASC:guild-l") Subject: GUILD-L Action Points/Half Trolls -Reply >>From owner-guild-l 08/26/96 DonT >> >>Although some may object to having the actions spread out Not me. >>I think that for the sake of game play, this is the only way to go. YES!! Thank yew, fellow group leader. >>At GenCon, he said that it may be put in as an optional selection, like >>pooling, for adventures. I have already volunteered Our group as a >>test subject to try this out, for as I see it, how can you go wrong with >>monsters equally affected? Black Ilsorens a bit tamed down Well, it would need to be optional, just to test it out. I think it would improve the game overall, but it might have to stay optional because of the oldtimer whiners, who can change the game with a single phone call and who might go after MY skills in retaliation. - -AelwonF, One Elf Digestmaker ***** ------------------------------ From: Mike Lee <mlee@discover-net.net> Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:43:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: re: GUILD-L Minotaurs. ***** Poor little Luca wrote: >Luca want a pendant, Luca gets a pendant. Luca knows where them faeries >live; Luca knows where their parents, wives, children, sisters and lovers >live. Ain't no faery gonna not give Luca what Luca wants. And then, Luca >gets to returns and beat up on Goldilocks, but Luca think she gonna go run >and hide behind SOTBR rather than take the beating she deserves. Somebody >should buy her some pots and pans, and a cookbook. Luca reduced to begging for trinkets from faeries to keep his poor little self going? Poor Luca. *sniff* *sobby* :-) Golden ***** ------------------------------ From: Mike Lee <mlee@discover-net.net> Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:52:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: GUILD-L CM:Power -Reply ***** >>>Todd wrote: >Ruark RC Cleary wrote: >>>So Hugh changed it so Power slowed characters down. > >Alright! Who called this in? Mike, was this you, again??? Fraid so. ;) Actually, I had Power 3 with Golden and used it for over a year. I'm surprised it took me that long to figure out Power sucks. :) >>>About the only characters I know that use Power are the ones that >>>have bonuses due to their gods and even most of then don't try to get >>>Power to the same lvl as many of the other offensive combat magics > >Ahem. I happen to know that Tilex has L6 Power and L5 Speed, and of >course follows Ulrick, and has a 24 Sta. [Don't even start, Luca!] Lord Kleevy uses a high Power spell also. >>>However I think alot of the problem is just the drastic affect lvls in >>>Power has on Speed. I'd like to see the slow down affect be >>>decreased to make Power a more useable skill. Any opinions? Todd > >Yeah, what he said! > >-AelwonF, Not a Power User > (just a Power Player; although not up there with Todd and Mike) *ring* *ring* "Entertainment Plus, Hugh Bayer speaking." "Hello, Hugh, there's something wrong with the Power spell...." Mike ***** ------------------------------ From: "David Ondzes" <dao@mypc.mv.com> Date: Mon, 26 Aug 96 19:09:52 Subject: GUILD-L What does this item do ? ***** Oscar found a "Monstrum Infinitus Fetish", item #225. Does anyone have any idea what it does or how much it is worth ? I also have some other items is anyone needs them for quests: Bloodstone Gems, Emerald Cat & Wolf figurine, Fine Wool Blanket. David Ondzes dao@mypc.mv.com ***** ------------------------------ From: PolyVu@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 22:18:44 -0400 Subject: GUILD-L King of elves ***** Glorfindel, sir, and Luca, with respect, I believe young Findelvos took my remark about being "king of elves" out of context. Please contact me if you require further information. Very truly yours, Polly Voo ***** ------------------------------ From: Mark Gumaer <gumaer@mail.koyote.com> Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 00:44:12 -0500 Subject: GUILD-L test ***** This is a test - {------------------------------------------------------------------------- { Mark Gumaer { Quinlan, Texas { { Email: gumaer@koyote.com { { Adventures Guild: Goomar in Antar { { Amateur radio: KA5YUV { {"Know your limits . . . . But never stop trying { to exceed them." {"Is this my brain coming out of my ear . . . . . { . . . .or just earwax!" {---------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** ------------------------------ From: Mark Gumaer <gumaer@mail.koyote.com> Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 00:49:17 -0500 Subject: GUILD-L lizardmen? ***** Hey guys (and girls), I've been reading all of your "flame letters" about min's and H-T . . .What do you think about LM? I've been running Goomar in Antar since 1991 (took a four year break however 92-96) and haven't heard to much about the race. Any commits would help. Thanks! Goomar. {------------------------------------------------------------------------- { Mark Gumaer { Quinlan, Texas { { Email: gumaer@koyote.com { { Adventures Guild: Goomar in Antar { { Amateur radio: KA5YUV { {"Know your limits . . . . But never stop trying { to exceed them." {"Is this my brain coming out of my ear . . . . . { . . . .or just earwax!" {---------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** ------------------------------ End of V1 #18 ************** ***** Up