AG Digest #14 From: apeiros@teleport.com (Apeiros) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 00:00:00 +0000 Thursday, 22 August 1996 Volume 01 : Number 014 ***** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ruark RC Cleary <"CLEARY_R"@ngw.dep.state.fl.us> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:41:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: GUILD-L Do: Re: Ri: Minotaur Mootiny -Reply ***** Date: 08/22/1996 09:47 am (Thursday) From: Ruark RC Cleary To: DEP-TLH.VAXGATE("EPIC66:PMDF:teleport.com:/ASC:guild-l") Subject: Do: Re: Ri: Minotaur Mootiny -Reply >>From owner-guild-l 08/21/96 10:01pm >> >>Speaking of Minotaurs, I am Kroll Wasn't that a movie, with some guy throwing around a big star-bladed thingy? [Hey! A new ranged weapon - shurikens] >>Slayer of Johan Redbeard Oh NO! Johan is DEAD?!? ....umm, BTW, who was he? >>And I am NOT Mike Quigley! But... if you're not, then who is?? >>I AM Andy Zambrzycki <searching roster> Is that in Ciston? >>(No one runs a mino better than me...ain't that right Mike?) Is that like saying, "No one dies better than me" or "No one pays taxes better than me"? - -AelwonF, Minotaunter ***** ------------------------------ From: Ruark RC Cleary <"CLEARY_R"@ngw.dep.state.fl.us> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:58:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: GUILD-L Re: Proof -Reply ***** Date: 08/22/1996 10:05 am (Thursday) From: Ruark RC Cleary To: DEP-TLH.VAXGATE("EPIC66:PMDF:teleport.com:/ASC:guild-l") Subject: Re: Proof -Reply >>From owner-guild-l 08/22/96 06:56am >> >>I'll post Hugh's exact words later (don't have the AOL chat log Proof? That's just hearsay, which is inadmissable in a kangaroo court. >>minos Head Butt range was increased up and down in height AHH! Run away!! (At least run out of short range) >>Also brought up by Hugh last night was training Magic Resistance up >>for Dwarves.. only.. Any thoughts on this as Hugh would say? Mike Since Blast is being doubled in effect, I guess MR training would be okay. But -- you didn't mention mentioning the Elven Pendant??!?? - -AelwonF, esq. Member of the Varna Bar Fleasem, Cheatham, and Howe ***** ------------------------------ From: Ruark RC Cleary <"CLEARY_R"@ngw.dep.state.fl.us> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:20:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: GUILD-L Re: Minotaur Mootiny -3rd Reply in a Series -Collect Them All ***** Date: 08/22/1996 10:22 am (Thursday) From: Ruark RC Cleary To: DEP-TLH.VAXGATE("EPIC66:PMDF:teleport.com:/ASC:guild-l") Subject: Re: Minotaur Mootiny -3rd Reply in a Series -Collect Them All >>From owner-guild-l 08/22/96 08:21am >> >>Luca got several of youse losers to reply to. Aelwon: Posting from >>Antar ain't gonna save youse's sorry self. Luca know a good hitman >>in Antar gonna take youse down. Kinda makes those Rat Tunnels >>doubly dangerous, knows what Luca means!?! Ummm... No. What douse Luca mean? Is Luca in league with the Rat Dude?? >>Minos need character, Luca gots character?!!? >>Now if any of youse got any more of youse's stupid comments, just be >>prepared to back them up on the guild floor on 150. Okay. Barstow Guild vs. Luca on 150. Tickets on sale now. - -AelwonF, the Characters' Character ***** ------------------------------ From: Ruark RC Cleary <"CLEARY_R"@ngw.dep.state.fl.us> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:31:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: GUILD-L Re: Like you didn't know already? ***** Date: 08/22/1996 10:36 am (Thursday) From: Ruark RC Cleary To: DEP-TLH.VAXGATE("EPIC66:PMDF:teleport.com:/ASC:guild-l") Subject: Re: Like you didn't know already? >>From owner-guild-l 08/22/96 08:37am >> >>the bug was that Jethro had unlimited action points.. Hugh turned the >>action points down a bit on berserkers after reviewing it. Mike For the GenCon-challenged, there was an agreement(?) to switch to a phased ratio AP system, at least for adventures, so that no one will have to sit out 3 pages while waiting for the speed demons to burn out. Basically, if someone has 3X the APs that you do, they will get 3 actions then you will get 1 (3:1), as opposed to them taking 15 actions before you even move. This might also be a toggle - "Phase APs" - like pooling EPs, in case a number of persons dislike it. So, does this mean Jethro gets his APs back? - -AelwonF, Prefers Ogres to Minotaurs (`cuz theys gots character) ***** ------------------------------ From: cfs@bea.com (Chris Settipani) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 10:41 Subject: GUILD-L Mag Resist ***** Form: Internet Memo Text: (12 lines follow) >>Since Blast is being doubled in effect, I guess MR training would be okay. >>But -- you didn't mention mentioning the Elven Pendant??!?? You want a Elven Pendant, fine. You've just need to wrest it from the Swamp Lich's dead fingers. Good Luck. As for increased dwarven magic resistance -- ain't the little buggers tuff enuf to beat as it is. You want to help races, look to the pitiful half-troll. If ever a race needed a break, there it is. Bad as everyone thinks minotaurs are, half-trolls are much worse off. Give the bonuses where they are most needed. Use Proportional Font: true ***** ------------------------------ From: cfs@bea.com (Chris Settipani) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 11:02 Subject: GUILD-L Finally, A Challenge ***** Form: Internet Memo Text: (3 lines follow) >>Okay. Barstow Guild vs. Luca on 150. Tickets on sale now. Luca could use the exercise. Bring it on!! Use Proportional Font: true ***** ------------------------------ From: Gordon Blair <shaitan@interlog.com> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 11:17:34 -0400 Subject: GUILD-L Paper Mayhem ***** Howdy! Recently an article re; AG was done in PM that was submitted over 3 months ago. It stuck almost entirely to mechanics and organization, I *really* tried hard to not offend anyone! Rather than mention players, only a few names were listed, all characters in the game except one (Mike Quigley and his mino Kroll). In fact the only thing I'm kicking myself over is: a) listing Golden out of context, and b) not listing Garret R Le-Page, the Guild FAQ owner/editor How I forgot to mention Garret & the FAQ is making me kick myself. Anyone even vaguely interested in AG would have liked the information therein. Also, have mercy on my soul, I really tried to keep the article in context, and try and remember it was sent in on a whim 3+ months ago (I've never spoken to David Webber at Paper Mayhem & still haven't... then again, I've never spoken to Hugh ever, either)! On a side note: the 2nd installment won't be done until issue #81. What I'm considering doing is posting the rough-copy here, and letting the long knives come out in advance to prevent too much conjecture, poor arguments, etc.. The 2nd installment will be on adventuring, and I'm really interested in knowing about the Mephitic Caves(?) I really, really hope this can be settled without too much turmoil. For those who are bored, Toad #488 & Shai'taan #507 will be back in Sept., I'm just really busy with other stuff. Gord ***** ------------------------------ From: cfs@bea.com (Chris Settipani) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 11:41 Subject: re: GUILD-L Paper Mayhem ***** Form: Reply Text: (4 lines follow) ***Glorfindel sits, calmly honing his knife [so it looks like a longsword - -- it still counts as a long knife], waiting for the draft, wanting to ensure that elves are properly represented. As Vanya walks by and scowls at him, he checks the edge on the blade. No, not sharp enough. Yet.*** Original text: (48 lines follow) >From MAIL@ih (Gordon Blair) {shaitan@interlog.com}, on 8/22/96 11:17 AM: ***** Howdy! Recently an article re; AG was done in PM that was submitted over 3 months ago. It stuck almost entirely to mechanics and organization, I *really* tried hard to not offend anyone! Rather than mention players, only a few names were listed, all characters in the game except one (Mike Quigley and his mino Kroll). In fact the only thing I'm kicking myself over is: a) listing Golden out of context, and b) not listing Garret R Le-Page, the Guild FAQ owner/editor How I forgot to mention Garret & the FAQ is making me kick myself. Anyone even vaguely interested in AG would have liked the information therein. Also, have mercy on my soul, I really tried to keep the article in context, and try and remember it was sent in on a whim 3+ months ago (I've never spoken to David Webber at Paper Mayhem & still haven't... then again, I've never spoken to Hugh ever, either)! On a side note: the 2nd installment won't be done until issue #81. What I'm considering doing is posting the rough-copy here, and letting the long knives come out in advance to prevent too much conjecture, poor arguments, etc.. The 2nd installment will be on adventuring, and I'm really interested in knowing about the Mephitic Caves(?) I really, really hope this can be settled without too much turmoil. For those who are bored, Toad #488 & Shai'taan #507 will be back in Sept., I'm just really busy with other stuff. Gord ***** Use Proportional Font: true Original to: MAIL@ih {guild-l@teleport.com} Attachment Count: 0 Encatts: *beyond*|*beyond*|844|10326|840739310| //BEGIN BINARY MAIL SEGMENT: //END BINARY MAIL SEGMENT - ----Message-Boundary-0000 ***** ------------------------------ From: Alrek@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 13:27:44 -0400 Subject: Re: GUILD-L Paper Mayhem ***** > It stuck almost entirely to mechanics and organization, I *really* tried >hard to not offend anyone! Rather than mention players, only a few names >were listed, all characters in the game except one (Mike Quigley and his >mino Kroll). > In fact the only thing I'm kicking myself over is: > a) listing Golden out of context, and > b) not listing Garret R Le-Page, the Guild FAQ owner/editor *** c) Listing Andy Zambrzycki and his minotaur Kroll As far as context, in theory, I liked the article. Your numbers are not exact, though. And the only way you'd get exact numbers is to read source code from Hugh. And as much as I am a six-year veteran player of AG, he'd never let me, or any other player, find that information out. Which brings me to my next point... The assumption on your part that Mike Lee had anything to do with the "adjustment" of minotaurs, or any skill for that matter, is completely ludicrious. If any veteran player had that much position in an established game like AG, he'd be making REAL MONEY off of it. [Mike Lee still bitches even today... you'd think if he was good he'd stop bitching]. The fact is, that veteran players explore the newest areas of the game first. They are the ones who have talked to Hugh about what works, what doesn't work, what's too powerful, and what's good for game balance: My elf character in Barstow has the highest level of summoning in the game, and can summon OWZ's without harming himself. Will I be blamed if I ask Hugh to include Skeletal Snakes and Ravenous Ghouls in the summoning codes, even though they are not as high as the PL as an OWZ? Will I be blamed for "influencing the GM of a game" because I did it first? Regardless whom influences whom, the final decision has always been with Hugh Bayer, and always will be. He didn't earn the title of Best Moderator of '95 just because of his players kissing his ass... Andy Zambrzycki ***** ------------------------------ From: cfs@bea.com (Chris Settipani) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 14:11 Subject: GUILD-L PAPER MAYHEM cont. ***** Form: Internet Memo Text: (25 lines follow) My elf character in Barstow has the highest level of summoning in the game, and can summon OWZ's without harming himself. Will I be blamed if I ask Hugh to include Skeletal Snakes and Ravenous Ghouls in the summoning codes, even though they are not as high as the PL as an OWZ? Will I be blamed for "influencing the GM of a game" because I did it first? ** Only if I have to fight them! ** He didn't earn the title of Best Moderator of '95 just because of his players kissing his ass... ** Hmmm, then how did he earn it. I thought that my vote was bought and paid for. ** **[Where'd that level 10 brain rot come from?]** The assumption on your part that Mike Lee had anything to do with the "adjustment" of minotaurs, or any skill for that matter, is completely ludicrious. **A bit stronger than the language I used, but same point.** **Mike just promised he'd get blast doubled by Hugh. Does that mean it ain't gonna happen? :( ** Use Proportional Font: true ***** ------------------------------ From: Gordon Blair <shaitan@interlog.com> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:56:44 -0400 Subject: Re: GUILD-L Paper Mayhem ***** >As far as context, in theory, I liked the article. Your numbers are not >exact, though. Tell me about it, I consulted with Todd Woods (among others) over the numbers. My *hope* had been to inform a new player why, say, a greatsword was listed the way it was, and what benefits (roughly) from STR he would get, etc. >The assumption on your part that Mike Lee had anything to do with the >"adjustment" of minotaurs, or any skill for that matter, is completely >ludicrious. Good. Let's have some more "ludicrous" things then, Andy. Example: Todd Woods argued aggressively with Hugh for half-trolls to receive a STA bonus to regeneration. Now, half-trolls get a slight boost over and above their regular amounts from Regen. Noone else wanted this Andy, just Todd, the half-troll crusader that he is, and *yes* it is now a feature in the game. Any other "ludicrous" things you would like to talk about Andy? Feel free, I've got other examples just like that one. 8^) Just as a by the by, that extra STA bonus to Regen is one of the best features of the skill at higher levels, so please don't treat it as a minor little addition. 8^) >If any veteran player had that much position in an established >game like AG, he'd be making REAL MONEY off of it. [Mike Lee still bitches >even today... you'd think if he was good he'd stop bitching]. The address is: woods@cs.uiowa.edu Feel free to send Todd money whenever you want, Andy. >The fact is, that veteran players explore the newest areas of the game first. >They are the ones who have talked to Hugh about what works, what doesn't >work, what's too powerful, and what's good for game balance: > My elf character in Barstow has the highest level of summoning in the game, >and can summon OWZ's without harming himself. Will I be blamed if I ask Hugh >to include Skeletal Snakes and Ravenous Ghouls in the summoning codes, even >though they are not as high as the PL as an OWZ? Will I be blamed for >"influencing the GM of a game" because I did it first? Certainly, if it somehow screws-up some other feature of the game, or manages to castrate other players' designs. And you most certainly **should** get blamed, might I add. >Regardless whom influences whom, the final decision has always been with Hugh >Bayer, and always will be. He didn't earn the title of Best Moderator of '95 >just because of his players kissing his ass... Andy Zambrzycki Well, Hugh is pretty tricky & he usually gets the last laugh 8^) ***** ------------------------------ From: Mike Lee <mlee@discover-net.net> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 13:46:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: GUILD-L Finally, A Challenge ***** At 11:02 AM 8/22/96, you wrote: >>>Okay. Barstow Guild vs. Luca on 150. Tickets on sale now. > >Luca could use the exercise. Bring it on!! (Golden is seen placing 1000 gold on Aelwon in advance) ***** ------------------------------ From: cfs@bea.com (Chris Settipani) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 17:00 Subject: GUILD-L Finally, A Challenge ***** Form: Internet Memo Text: (9 lines follow) At 11:02 AM 8/22/96, you wrote: >>>Okay. Barstow Guild vs. Luca on 150. Tickets on sale now. > >Luca could use the exercise. Bring it on!! (Golden is seen placing 1000 gold on Aelwon in advance) *One of Luca's bookies is seen covering the bet, and seeing whom else is foolish enuf to bet against Luca. Use Proportional Font: true ***** ------------------------------ From: Mike Lee <mlee@discover-net.net> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: GUILD-L Re: Proof -Reply ***** >>>Mike wrote: > Ruark RC Cleary wrote: >>>I'll post Hugh's exact words later (don't have the AOL chat log > >Proof? That's just hearsay, which is inadmissable in a kangaroo court. If Fenrir would get out of Tharkan's black ooze pool for a minute and send me the log I shall post. Fenrir sure likes those 10 hour baths of violent thoughts.... >>>Also brought up by Hugh last night was training Magic Resistance up >>>for Dwarves.. only.. Any thoughts on this as Hugh would say? > >Since Blast is being doubled in effect, I guess MR training would be okay. >But -- you didn't mention mentioning the Elven Pendant??!?? Elven pendant will be next on the list after Hugh doubles Blast damage. The secret is to bug Hugh only on one thing at a time. Mike, brown noser >-AelwonF, esq. > Member of the Varna Bar > Fleasem, Cheatham, and Howe ***** ------------------------------ From: Mike Lee <mlee@discover-net.net> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: GUILD-L Re: Like you didn't know already? ***** >From: Ruark RC Cleary >Subject: Re: Like you didn't know already? >>>the bug was that Jethro had unlimited action points.. Hugh turned the >>>action points down a bit on berserkers after reviewing it. Mike > >For the GenCon-challenged, there was an agreement(?) to switch to a >phased ratio AP system, at least for adventures, so that no one will have >to sit out 3 pages while waiting for the speed demons to burn out. >Basically, if someone has 3X the APs that you do, they will get 3 actions >then you will get 1 (3:1), as opposed to them taking 15 actions before >you even move. This might also be a toggle - "Phase APs" - like pooling >EPs, in case a number of persons dislike it. Last night Hugh mentioned something along the lines of both parties would have to agree on using the ratio AP system to try it out (your mentioned toggle switch). I guess there is still resistance from players who like it the way it is and Hugh would need an even larger majority vote to change it. >So, does this mean Jethro gets his APs back? In my opinion it was a program bug which caused Jethro's unlimited action points, so he never really had those action points. :) Mike ***** ------------------------------ From: Mike Lee <mlee@discover-net.net> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 13:58:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: GUILD-L Paper Mayhem ***** >> Gord wrote: >Andy wrote: >> It stuck almost entirely to mechanics and organization, I *really* tried >>hard to not offend anyone! Rather than mention players, only a few names >>were listed, all characters in the game except one (Mike Quigley and his >>mino Kroll). > >> In fact the only thing I'm kicking myself over is: >> a) listing Golden out of context, and Not too big a deal, I got alot of mileage out of being known as a brown noser and dictator down at Gencon. :) Oh, and professional ass kisser. :-) >> b) not listing Garret R Le-Page, the Guild FAQ owner/editor >*** c) Listing Andy Zambrzycki and his minotaur Kroll Andy, c'mon now, who wants to be known for running a mino? :) >As far as context, in theory, I liked the article. Your numbers are not >exact, though. And the only way you'd get exact numbers is to read source >code from Hugh. And as much as I am a six-year veteran player of AG, he'd >never let me, or any other player, find that information out. Which brings me >to my next point... > >The assumption on your part that Mike Lee had anything to do with the >"adjustment" of minotaurs, or any skill for that matter, is completely >ludicrious. If any veteran player had that much position in an established >game like AG, he'd be making REAL MONEY off of it. [Mike Lee still bitches >even today... you'd think if he was good he'd stop bitching]. Thank you, thank you. (bow bow) :) I'm still not sure if it was me he was referring to on messing up minos (one of us really should read that Paper Mayhem article! :)). >Regardless whom influences whom, the final decision has always been with Hugh >Bayer, and always will be. He didn't earn the title of Best Moderator of '95 >just because of his players kissing his ass... Well said. (Goldy awaits Gord's followup reply) Mike >Andy Zambrzycki >***** ***** ------------------------------ End of V1 #14 ************** ***** Up