Re: Ads on rec.games.pbm, The Real Post

From: Ryan Wynne <rwynne@NOSPAMwidomaker.com>

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 00:00:00 +0000

Sol III GM wrote:
>
> Ben Swain wrote:
> >Sol III GM <soliiigm@aol.com> wrote:
> >>Greg Lindahl said:
> >>>soliiigm@aol.com (Sol III GM) writes:
> >[...]
> >>
> >>>>   It still does not replace responsible ad copy reaching the readers
> >>>> directly, however.
> >>>Then buy a magazine ad. Usenet doesn't exist to give anyone free
> >>>commercial advertising.
> >>
> >>  I'm not going to dispute that one with you, but I will state that the
> >>current policy here allows some companies a LOT more free commercial
> >>advertising than others.  And in any case, I am not talking about ads
> for
> >>commercial companies, I am talking ads for PB(e)M games, commercial or
> >>free.  Besides, I have done the math.  Magazine ads for an on-line game
> >>are a good way to go broke at a rapid rate.
> >
> >I thought that the sole purpose of a business was to make money?  At
> least
> >that's what I learned in Accounting 101, and it seemed a very reasonable
> >conclusion.  If you can't afford advertising, maybe you should take a
> look
> >at the books to see if you're charging your customers enough in fees to
> >maintain your profit margin.  I've run across many a good PB(e)M game
> that
> >is still thriving today, and they don't find it necesary to post ads on
> >r.g.pbm or other USENET groups.
>
>   In order.
>   No, the sole purpose of a business is not always to make money.  If I
> was concerned about making money, this is not what I would be doing.  I am
> concerned about making a living, however, but that is not my goal with Sol
> III, it's merely something that happens while I am reaching my goals.
>   Afford advertising?  Sure.  I can afford advertising, but there is no
> such thing as a targeted advertising magazine for PBeM.  I don't see the
> point in wasting money buying ad space in a magazine that is aimed at a
> different segment of PBM gaming and where less than half the readers would
> even have access to the net.  That is just plain silly, and that's what I
> meant by, I had done the math.
>   Raise the fees when the biggest competition I have are free games?  That
> sounds like a good way to go broke charging higher fees.
>
> >>>   The point, was that almost no one is opposed to ads, period.
> >>>I am not opposed to ads, period. Quit beating that straw horse; it's
> >>>dead.
> >>
> >>  I have no intention to beat a dead straw horse.  I much prefer live
> >>ones.  So, not opposed to ads, period.  Shall we then discuss what is
> >>acceptable and what is not?  From my frame of mind, this is not an
> >>argument, but a discussion.
> >
> >... and a discussion I have expressed my opinion on in a previous post.
> >
> >               _No_ ads.
>
>   Nice to see that the farthest extremes on both sides of the discussion
> are now represented.
>
> >>  I am not concerned about saturation bombing of the PBM players, but
> >>rather, targeting an audience, and giving others a chance to do the
> same.
> >>  This Newsgroup can be an effective tool, if used right, but it is not
> >>going to make anyone rich.  For that matter, has anyone ever gotten rich
> >>off of PB(e)M?
> >
> >I am concerned about SPAM and saturation bombing of me as a PB(e)M
> player.
> >This group would be quickly added to my killfile if it where to become a
> >route of advertising for (any and in particular marginal) PB(e)M
> companies
> >seeking free advertising space in an attempt to help them make a
> >profit/survive.
>
>   I can see that I should have clarified.  what my words there meant is
> that I do not want to see saturation bombing nor do I expect there to be
> such.
>
> >A "unique feature" I appreciate in PB(e)M game companies is excellent
> >customer service.  I've played less than perfect games because the CS was
> >excellent, and dropped play of excellent games because CS sucked.  RSI
> >(Hyborian Wars) of several years ago, and BSE before it's takeover by
> RTG,
> >are cases in point for the good game-poor CS scenario.  If you're giving
> >quality service, even a marginal game will win adherents; but an
> excellent
> >product won't long survive poor CSR.  If a game falls into the latter
> group,
> >even free advertising won't save it.
>
>   I agree.
>
> >And if companies want to be able to announce a new game here, they might
> >want to consider doing it with a call for playtesters when it's in the
> >development stage.  If the game has "unique features" and "attractions",
> >it won't take long for the playtesters to let it be known.
>
>   That is all well and good for new games.  What about established games?
>
> Eagle
> Sol III Game Master
> Sol III Play By E-Mail Role Playing Game
> http://members.aol.com/soliiigm/
>
>   There is a certain freedom to being totally screwed.  It means nothing you do is going to make the situation any worse.

Honestly in my humble opinion.... I feel this conversation and gregs
attitude is
probably driving people away.  I am less and less wanting to read this
base and continue
to even be subscribed to it.

For me, you might say "Who cares, go away then" but it might drive
away people who would otherwise be willing to pay to play a PBEM game.

Why not just move forward, but respect eachothers feeling and move
on...  Also you are so concerned about spam posting why not complain
about that WOOKIES BARBER who shouldnt be posting in this base anyway
and is blantely (SP) spaming

This is just my opinion

Ryan Wynne

Email:  rwynne@widomaker.com   (Remove the antispam NOSPAM to send mail)

SPAM:  Spam will be reported to their ISP and billed for my time

References

Re: Ads on rec.games.pbm, The Real Post
bswain@nyx.cs.du.edu (Benjamin Swain)
Sat, 14 Jun 1997 00:00:00 +0000
Re: Ads on rec.games.pbm, The Real Post
soliiigm@aol.com (Sol III GM)
Mon, 16 Jun 1997 00:00:00 +0000