Re: Awright, let's get this straight, people

From: graeme@discreet.co.uk (Graeme Griffiths)

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 00:00:00 +0000

Oh bugger, I've gone and let myself get dragged into this again....

In <5orkdc$t55$1@protocol.protocol.com> chrisk@iago.NoSubdomain.NoDomain
    (Chris Kessel) writes:

>I responded to your private email, but in summary:

You also removed the poster you're replying to's name so we don't know who
you're talking to/about.

>1) Usenet's charter is for non-commercial purposes.  Some specific
>newsgroups (.biz, .forsale for instance) have been designated for ads.

Oh, just stop there. This is not true. There is no Usenet Charter.

>2) When you post an ad you use *MY* money to do it since Usenet is
>backed by government (tax-paid) money.  I have a problem with you spending
>my money to advertise your game, and I reserve the right to complain
>to you about it.

Look I said "stop" you do not pay for Usenet thru tax dollars you purchase
it from your ISP like everyone else. Yes, some governments sponsor this but
you cannot expect anyone to listen to "public responsibility" arguments for
omething thats bigger than the local government thats sponsoring it.

>3) People can find out about PBM's same as any other game in
>any industry. Magazine ads, reviews, etc, etc.  comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.*
>has plenty of conversation about new games without many ads from
>companies, or ads basically say "Game now available, see our website.".

And so do we, don't equate discussion about a perceived problem to be
evidence of a problem.

>4) I'll vote for a rec.games.pbm.marketplace if we want a place for ads.

Excellent, we may yet do this but when there aren't that many ads is there
reallt a point ?

>5) You tell me to unsubscribe? So you can post ads?  I read this
>group, I post to it, I help pay for it.  This is not your private
>advertising medium.

Who did ?

>Using Usenet for commercial purposes is an abuse.  Sadly, noone ever gets
>punished for it.

Wrong, wrong and just so far off the mark its laughable.

>As for free PBM's, as long as the moderator is voluntarily running the
>show for no money, sounds fine to me.  People have been advertising
>free games (Empire, GB, MUDS) for years.  If you've got something
>commerical post where your website is, do the advertising at the
>web site.

And then we get a hundred or so web-site adverts per week, nice.

Chris, you've made the same mistake I did. Assuming that all this discussion
is actually evidence of a huge volume of ads. It isn't. Virtually all of the
commercial PBM moderators are very aware that if they repeatedly post ads
they'll piss more customers off than they attract. Most use Gregs PBm list
to avoid this. Occaisionally we get new game ads and most people are happy
with them as long as they are rare, short and clearly marked as ads. Thats
how the system on this group works and I thought most people knew that from
the abundance of discussion on this topic.

Sorry to go on people but I'm trying to put this one to rest (Greg I hope we
can sort out a synopsis of this discussion for the FAQ because I really hate
to have to go over this again and again).

If you want to know how Usenet stands on the issues above. Point your
newsreader at news.announce.newusers and read Joel Furrs "Advertising on
Usenet: How To Do It, How Not To Do It". There are other very useful
articles on what Usenet is and how to use it, please, everyone, read them
before posting your opinion on this discussion. I guarantee that articles
like Chris' above will dissappear if you do.

To whet those appetites and get you there, heres an exceprt...
---
Advertising on Usenet is a frequently misunderstood subject. The purpose
of this message is to explain some Usenet conventions regarding
advertising to new users and, hopefully, spare everyone involved a lot of
needless worry.

...

One such custom is the tradition and belief that it is rude to advertise
for profit in Usenet newsgroups.
---

You see Chris, "rude", "untraditional" (and if you read the article - Off
topic) but not actually against Usenet rules (of which there are none).

And while I'm at it can we cut out the forgeries on this group ? I realise
people don't want to be spammed but if I'd wanted to reply to Chris by email
I'd have had to spend about 5 minutes checking how to de-spam his From
address. I personally hate the practice but if you must do it, read the
guidelines on doing it first and follow them as best you can.

Like Phil said, can we talk about PBM now ?

--
Graeme Griffiths - Discreet Logic (Newbury, UK)
Disclaimer: I do not speak for anyone but myself and I do that badly.
Mail: graeme@discreet.co.uk
Spam: All unsolicited mail will be reported, and billed for my time.

References

Awright, let's get this straight, people
silver@phoenyx.net (Karen J. Cravens)
Mon, 23 Jun 1997 00:00:00 +0000
Re: Awright, let's get this straight, people
dsharkey@mindspring.com (Dave Sharkey)
Tue, 24 Jun 1997 00:00:00 +0000
Re: Awright, let's get this straight, people
chrisk@iago.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Chris Kessel)
Wed, 25 Jun 1997 00:00:00 +0000
Re: Awright, let's get this straight, people
Mills <hawk1@cfw.com>
Wed, 25 Jun 1997 00:00:00 +0000
Re: Awright, let's get this straight, people
chrisk@iago.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Chris Kessel)
Wed, 25 Jun 1997 00:00:00 +0000